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This will be a short diary, but an important one. It seems that Fox News is starting to spin the idea that breaching the debt ceiling won't be that bad of an idea. This means the Republicans are probably serious about it. Here's the text of the headline for their front page article today:

TREASURY SECRETARY Jacob Lew defends accusations of fear mongering over Congress potentially failing to increase federal debt limit — including his assertion that economic impact would be 'catastrophic,' but declines to provide specific examples.
Frightening. Almost unbelievable. But with Fox also perpetuating the nonsensical use of the word "slimdown" in place of "shutdown", one can often see hints to the Republicans' state of mind through the Fox News text.

A part of me wants Obama to negotiate, just because I know that the debt ceiling breach will almost certainly bring on a Depression that would make 1929 look like a cake walk. It would be equivalent to the Visigoth sack of Rome - the end of America as a world power, and the harbinger of its fall. But the other part, far more dominant, knows that Obama can't negotiate, else we cede democracy to the minority. It doesn't even matter to me that this will cause Democratic wave elections in 2014 and 2016. Winning isn't that important to me. We must stand firm on this.

Fucking Republicans.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (30+ / 0-)

    Boehner: "Shut down Obamacare or the budget gets it!" Reid: "Don't think so." B: "But.. but.. shut down Obamacare!" R: "No." B: "... Please?" R: "Fuck off."

    by evilcommunist on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 12:27:44 PM PDT

  •  How ironic it is (13+ / 0-)

    That both sides are stuck between a rock and a hard place. If we (dems) concede, then from now on, any political party can use the basic functions of the government as a weapon.

    If we don't the Republicans will throw the entire world into a depression. Because fuck it, why not?

  •  Just ignoring the debt ceiling and (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lujane, Bisbonian, apimomfan2

    spending the money that Congress already appropriated--what harm would that do exactly? Sure, the Republicans would stamp and squeal and hold their breath--but they already do that.

    Let the snotty Republicans go into a torte throwing riot. With 12% (if that) approval from the public, how far will that get them?

    And God said, "Let there be light"; and with a Big Bang, there was light. And God said "Ow! Ow My eyes!" and in a flash God separated light from darkness. "Whew! Now that's better. Now where was I. Oh yea . . ."

    by Pale Jenova on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 12:32:50 PM PDT

  •  Not surprised nt (5+ / 0-)

    nosotros no somos estúpidos

    by a2nite on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 12:33:17 PM PDT

  •  Sure would be nice if the American people (5+ / 0-)

    just once stood up for what was right and put the fear of God in to the Republicans. Because that is what it will take to end the terrorists tactics that todays  ( may they rot in hell!!!!!) GOP is so willing to use in there mad quest to bring there insanity to the rest of us!

  •  I want to be optimistic (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lujane, phonegery, SuWho

    Fox is fully capable of going 180 degrees opposite on cue, and their listeners won't blink an eye.

    Two weeks out, let's hope this is the posturing phase still.

    Question for any one:

    Is there any way to discharge petition the debt ceiling, like there will apparently be on 10/14 over the CR?

    •  and because of this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SuWho

      I refuse to give fox viewing 1% wannabe teabaggers any benefit of the doubt...they are brainwashed lemmings who believe anything Fox and their Pastors tell them. These people don't care if the world economy crashes. Sorry I had to vent.

  •  Perhaps we need to let it happen. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VeggiElaine, Lujane, Bisbonian, ColoTim

    What better proof that the so-called Tea Party Patriots are not patriots but are responsible for the destruction of the United States.

    Yes, it will hurt (and I rely on SS and would end up homeless if I don't get my SS), but how can we even think of kowtowing to those terrorists/seditionists/traitors when their agenda was not accepted in 2008 and 2012?

    When it happens and the prestige of the US is proven to be non-existent any more, then we can rebuild the US with new rules to prevent this from ever happening again.

    Then again, the foreign countries will take over the US to make sure their investments are covered, even if it means selling off the US piecemeal!

    I reject your reality and substitute my own - Adam Savage

    by woolibaar on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 12:54:26 PM PDT

  •  ah yes. Fox language. Brought to you by (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite, Lujane, phonegery, apimomfan2

    'slim down' and 'homicide bombing'.

  •  What this probably means is (8+ / 0-)

    that Murdoch has managed to shift enough of his loot into investments that will survive (or thrive on) a US default.

    Apres moi, le deluge & all that.

    BALTIMORE RAVENS--SUPER BOWL XLVII CHAMPIONS! WOOO-HOOO!

    by Uncle Cosmo on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 12:57:50 PM PDT

  •  George Will (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cocinero, phonegery

    left ABC to join Fox News in early October 2013.

    Thank you Stephanopolous!

    Now about Peggy Noonan....

    Notice: This Comment © 2013 ROGNM UID 2547

    by ROGNM on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 01:05:44 PM PDT

  •  For Someone Like Me Trying to Sell the House I (11+ / 0-)

    just moved out of, it's a BFD.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 01:19:12 PM PDT

    •  I believe that there is either a diary or a news (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ColoTim

      article I just saw, which indicates that in response to the shutdown, Fannie and Freddie have delayed endorcement of a provision of their rules which requires certain docus only available from the shut down provisions of the IRS and SS. This one allows them to be presented later when the offices get working again. I hope that is not your house sale problem.

  •  It's not just Faux News (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lujane, phonegery, ColoTim, apimomfan2

    Steve King on CNNs Chris Coumo on Thursday:

    KING: I don’t think the credit of the United states is going to be collapsed. I think that all this talk about a default has been a lot of demagoguery, false demagoguery. We have plenty of money coming in to service the debt. When we stop servicing the debt that would be default, we’re a long, long ways from that. We need to have cool heads and get to a solution.
    Commentary from Think Progress:
    King is hinting here at the idea that, even if the nation hits its debt limit, it could prioritize payments — taking money away from a certain group or program to direct it at making payments on the debt. Analysts called this plan “essentially impossible” when House Republicans suggested it during the last debt ceiling fight, after Republicans started crafting legislation to prioritize debt unless the president caved to deep spending cuts. A debt-prioritization scheme doesn’t stop the United States from defaulting on its obligations.
    •  Deciding not to pay (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apimomfan2

      prospective obligations is known as a "spending cut" (known as 'austerity', hereabouts). Defaulting on sovereign debt is called "default".

      There is sufficient revenue to cover the latter (thereby not defaulting), but not the former (without borrowing, thereby increasing the latter).

  •  Day 1 $8 Gas, Day 2 $15 Gas, Day 3 No Gas (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    phonegery, SuWho, apimomfan2

    Unless we can convince OPEC to take shiny beads and sea shells.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 02:56:40 PM PDT

    •  thats just ridiculous, and doesn't resemble realty (0+ / 0-)

      "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

      by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 03:04:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Credit And Commodity Markets Will Stop Dead (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SuWho, apimomfan2

        Remember how the Soviet Union Disappeared overnight? Yeah, it would be like that.  

        Without a reserve currency like the dollar, credit markets freeze.  There will be no trades when the currency can't be assigned a value.

        International trade screeches to dead stop. The commodity markets collapse.  

        Oil producers suspend exports.

        Gasoline goes to $10 a gallon overnight and gas stations are out of gas and closed after 48 hours.

        There is a run on ATM machines, which run out of money and aren't refilled.  

        Christmas shopping is out of the question. Stores are boarded up.

        Without functioning commodity markets and business loans, farmers can't sell their crops or get fuel to plant new ones. Crops rot in the fields.  

        Without credit and fuel for businesses, the supermarkets are mostly empty after the first week.  

        The same thing happens in Europe, and massive rioting breaks out across the EU.

        The new normal for Americans is standing in bread lines and hunting down Tea Party members.  

        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

        by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 03:26:55 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thats some interesting fiction you've written here (0+ / 0-)

          "without a reserve currency"  what, are all those trillions of dollars going to disappear?

          Gasoline prices go down in a recession as demand drops.  Thats supply and demand 101

          ATM's will never run out of money, since the Fed supplies all the cash banks ever want.

          The rest is just as fantastical

          MMT = Reality

          "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

          by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 03:35:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Value Of Those Dollars Will Be Unknown For Months (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            apimomfan2

            Hence there is no way to trade commodities, no way buy oil, no way to run the commodity futures markets, no way to calculate loans or bonds.

            The cost of gasoline will go up when the Arabs refuse to accept dollars for an indeterminate period.  

            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

            by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 04:01:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  seriously, thats not at all what will happen. (0+ / 0-)

              All the debt ceiling does is prevent any more net issuing of T-bonds.  As old one's mature, new ones can be issued in their place.  That has nothing to do with foreign exchange rates, those are continuously determined and that wont stop just because the debt ceiling isn't raised.  People will stilll trade commodities and exchange money.  I'm sorry but what you are saying is just plain wrong.  And there is no reason to assume that the Arabs wont still exchange their oil for dollars, that would be ridiculous.  Do you really think that Saudi Arabia won't want to sell their oil and make money?

              MMT = Reality

              "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

              by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 04:09:02 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Did You Sleep Through $140 Oil In 2008? (0+ / 0-)

                Yes it came back down after the global economy crached.

                Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

                by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 06:13:09 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  What does that have to do with what I am (0+ / 0-)

                  replying to the guy who is talking nonsense?  Seriously, you comment is a complete non-sequitur to what I'm talking about.  Therefore I don't even know how to respond.

                  MMT = Reality

                  "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                  by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 06:27:56 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  And Derp To You Too nt (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    apimomfan2

                    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

                    by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 06:28:44 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  more non-sequitur? Do you even know the (0+ / 0-)

                      subject matter well enough to have a real discussion?

                      MMT = reality

                      "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                      by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 06:30:32 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Derp Derpy Derp (0+ / 0-)

                        You're good at the pseudo-stupidity song and dance.

                        Too bad you choose to limit your potential that way.

                        Enjoy your smugness.

                        Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

                        by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 08:38:12 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  more nonsense from you sir. (0+ / 0-)

                          "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                          by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 09:19:06 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Sad, Lonely, And Desperate For Attention? nt (0+ / 0-)

                            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

                            by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 09:23:39 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  lol. were you planning on making any cogent (0+ / 0-)

                            points today?

                            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                            by Auburn Parks on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 10:12:25 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Go To The Park And Argue With The Squirrels (0+ / 0-)

                            "No! No! No! No!"

                            Is that your idea of what passes for cleverness?  

                            i hate to pop your bubble, but you're not interesting enough to keep me up all night bickering.

                            Have you considered match.com?

                            Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

                            by bernardpliers on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 10:36:22 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I have yet to see you say one thing that's (0+ / 0-)

                            relevant, has any useful information in it, nor make any claim that furthers our knowledge.  I am correcting false information, you are doing nothing.

                            "The Earth is my country and Science my religion" Christiaan Huygens. Please join our Kos group "Money and Public Purpose". The gold standard ended on August 15, 1971, its time we start acting like it.

                            by Auburn Parks on Mon Oct 07, 2013 at 06:05:00 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

  •  I can see an emergencty lawsuit brought before (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ColoTim

    SCOTUS  on an expedited basis. about the conflict of laws when they are mutually exclusive, that is, the exercise of the constitutional duty that the President shall see the laws failthfully performed, when the aggregate of what the Congress has authorized and appropriated exceeds the debt ceiling  and the debt ceiling prohibits payment. That's the sort of thing that courts may sort out, so that the decision would tell the Pres which one of the mutually exclusive options would be the one he is bound to perform since both cannot be performed.  Adherence to the decision would or should preclude an impeachment on charges of high crimes and misdemeanors, namely the failure to enforce whichever of the mutually exclusive items is not the one the court picks.

    I do in fact think the object of all this manipulation is a majority House vote to impeach, which would fail in the Senate where a two thirds majority is required, but which would be chaotic in the extreme.

    •  Congress can always change its mind in (0+ / 0-)

      deference to the Constitution's direction re sovereign debt.  It's called a budget revision, matching revenues and obligations (if we had a budget to start with, which we don't).

      •  An obligation on Congress with no remedy for not (0+ / 0-)

        performing it is merely a suggestion.  Including the Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974 whch sets forth in awful detail the procedure for passing a budget or a CR,  and in which the only penalty that seems to be present is the ability to raise a point of order if certain of the smaller matters are violated in a bill on the floor of a Chamber. No remedy for doing nothing that I have found so far.

  •  The Bircher 1% isn't even trying to hide their (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    apimomfan2

    greed anymore.  So, it's not enough that 95% of income gains since 2009 went to the top  1%...they want even more?!  As J.D.Rockefeller said, "The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets.”

    Robber Baron "ReTHUGisms": John D. Rockefeller -"The way to make money is to buy when blood is running in the streets"; Jay Gould -"I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half."

    by ranton on Sun Oct 06, 2013 at 05:18:45 PM PDT

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