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He also laid the groundwork for beating Stalin.

Social Security started there.

Small government trolls fail to recognize success.

Small government trolls? Were you birthed at home or in a modern hospital. When your mother may have been birthing you on her deathbed and she was dying would you rather have died or . . .


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Comment Preferences

  •  Not to mention... (6+ / 0-)

    Hoover, MacArthur and Lindbergh (all major members of the Republican Party) were pro-Axis until Pearl Harbor. AND the right wing Republicans helped German and Japanese war criminals get off.

    FDR was pro-AMERICA. So was Eisenhauer. But Hoover, MacArthur and Lindbergh wer all pro-AXIS.

    FREEDOM ISN'T FREE: That's why we pay taxes! Find me on Linkedin.

    by mole333 on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 02:01:34 PM PST

  •  The Soviets beat Hitler. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mookins, BusyinCA, Tinfoil Hat

    The Soviets lost 14% of their people in WW II, the Americans lost 0.32%. One in seven Soviets died, while only one in 300 Americans died; in other words, every Soviet who had survived lost a mother, father, or grandparent, while in the US every large neighborhood lost a person.

    "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

    by kuvasz on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 02:22:35 PM PST

  •   without american assistence, the blitz works in (0+ / 0-)

    Russia as it did elsewhere in Europe., the Germans couldnt possibly control all of the country- remember the SU was 8.5 million miles in area- but they likely would have given the far east to Japan to run as it saw fit. the death toll on the Russian side would have been tens of millions higher, and the russian jews would have been wiped out to the last man woman and child.

  •  Hitler Beat Hitler (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Otteray Scribe, sturunner

    The list of serious screwups of his whether tactical or strategic seems to be major. Not to mention his increasingly dicey mental condition as his health degraded.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 03:07:02 PM PST

  •  russia falls, hitler is untouchable in Euope (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    as he would have had all europe under his control, minus areas controlled by italy. all that, opposed by a britian that was basically bankrupt. i dont think britians last very long under that scenario.

    •  + would have developed ICBMs and A-bombs (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sturunner, ichibon, BusyinCA, Tinfoil Hat

      capable of hitting Washington DC, let alone London.

      A few months before JFK was assassinated he gave a speech about understanding the spirit, toughness, and paranoia of the Soviets. He attempted to explain with an example of the deep strength of their people during WW II. His comparison was thus: What the Soviets had done 1942-1945 would be comparable to a foreign army landing on the Atlantic Coast of the US and driving the Americans west before them and having the Americans dissemble the manufacturing factories of the East coast, those of New York, Northern New Jersey, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Akron, Youngstown, Gary, and the rest. Then reassemble them in the Rockies, then drive the advancing foreign power from the eastern banks of the Mississippi River back to Atlantic Ocean.

      That, essentially is what the Soviets accomplished, and every single Soviet/Russian knows it, even if rah rah propaganda poisoned Americans don't.

      Anyone interested in "alternative" histories about such things should be pointed to Philip Dick's Hugo Award winning "The Man in the High Castle."

      "There are many truths of which the full meaning cannot be realized until personal experience has brought it home." John Stuart Mill

      by kuvasz on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 06:29:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  russia was much bigger in size than the us. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        sturunner, Tinfoil Hat

        twice as big, in fact. the us covers 3.8 million miles the soviet union covered twice as much. the rest of jfks anaolgy holds. stalin traded space- of which the ussr had plenty- for time, at a tremendous cost.  it was a herculean feat, no doubt, of course under a brutal dictatorship you dont worry abut niceties like minimum wage or freedom of speech. you put the people to work, and basically the russians pulled this off with a gun at their front - the nazis- and their back- stalin and the kgb. without that effort, the nazis win the war. remember we didnt join the war until 2 years and 3 months had passed, at the start of the war our army was tiny, it took a herculean effort to get our army to the size and strength needed to make our economic and financial power felt. we ourproduced  the axi and the rest of our allies- we wee the arsenal of democracy. but if russa falls, we are facing the axis, 3 powerful countries, who have been carving up the world like a risk board- alone. while it is possible we might have prevailed in that scenario, its a very good thing we were never put to that test..

  •  Winter had a hand in (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sturunner, bartcopfan, Tinfoil Hat

    stopping the Nazi advance.

    its all interrelated and complex

    "If you pour some music on whatever's wrong, it'll sure help out." Levon Helm

    by BOHICA on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 06:21:10 PM PST

  •  Obama and Hillary Clinton killed bin Laden. (0+ / 0-)

    Yes, Hillary Clinton was in the war room, despite what the Hasidic newspaper showed.

    Interesting that Republicans coddled Nazis, Commies, and Ter'ists, but Dems attacked them smartly...

    You can't spell "Dianne Feinstein" without "NSA".

    by varro on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 06:22:55 PM PST

    •  Not really (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Republicans coddled Nazis, Commies, and Ter'ists, but Dems attacked them smartly...
      Except for the Bay of pigs and that little corner of SE Asia and Nazis brought over for their rocketry knowledge.

      Its been a bi-partisan SNAFU many times.

      "If you pour some music on whatever's wrong, it'll sure help out." Levon Helm

      by BOHICA on Fri Dec 27, 2013 at 07:33:26 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  what groundwork? it was Truman who (0+ / 0-)

        started the cold war. Unlikely FDR couldn't have avoided it or the creation of an anticommunist CIA, but the diarist states it as a conclusion. JFK was attacked for attempting to restore Russian empire as an ally which goes back to the czars who saw the US as a close ally. Remains an important next step for a rational balance of power and demilitarization of Europe.

  •  There are no historians in this thread (0+ / 0-)

    because historians know the questions and hypotheticals posed here are useless.

    by DAISHI on Sat Dec 28, 2013 at 12:58:00 AM PST

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