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A simple question not linked to todays headlines. Not on some geopolitical agenda regarding Ukraine but in the big picture.

For centuries if not millenia the question has been are we alone in the universe? In the vastness of space are we the only life out there?

If your answer is no then do you have to reject the idea of intelligent design?

Is it conspiratorial to consider that any knowledge of extraterrestrial life be kept secret from the masses in order to support the current power structure? The tenuous stool of organized religion that keeps the masses in line by believing in an omnipotent being of great power. And the discovery of life outside that narrow focus would bring into question very existence of such an institution.

Beyond religion what about the socio-economic structure. What if the suppression of such knowledge was to keep the current power structure in place? Does not government and multinational corporations also benefit from suppressing this idea.

After all sitings have been recorded throughout history for thousands of years. Yet still today governments around the world reject this notion that there is anything but us.

Yes there are a lot of naysayers and those who wish to garner attention, but, what if? What is the possibility that we are not the only beings in the vastness of the universe? What if those modern religions were only relating god like creatures to flesh and blood with better technology?

Are we the only ones out there?

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Comment Preferences

  •  we are not alone (6+ / 0-)

    the united federation of planets is watching us, and waiting for us to develop warp technology. they clued in gene roddenberry, so he could prepare us.

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:00:12 PM PST

  •  Beam me up! n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joeshwingding, IB JOHN

    "Disturbances in society are never more fearful than when those who are stirring up the trouble can use the pretext of religion to mask their true designs." -- Denis Diderot

    by terremoto on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:05:08 PM PST

  •  In an episode of The Simpsons... (5+ / 0-)

    the alien named Kang exclaimed after reaching Earth "I went through 2 centuries of cryosleep for this!"
    So disappointed.

    "I'm gonna dance between the raindrops"

    by IB JOHN on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:12:36 PM PST

  •  They never call! They never write! (9+ / 0-)

    I live under the bridge to the 21st Century.

    by Crashing Vor on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:18:43 PM PST

  •  it would be unintelligent to deny the likelyhood (3+ / 0-)

    that among billions of galaxies with billions of stars we are the only ones. and then there are all the photos and stories from strangers and friends, and those weird lights in the sky...

    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

    by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:19:19 PM PST

    •  two entirely different questions (7+ / 0-)

      Life is chemistry, and it's virtually certain that it will appear anywhere in the universe that the physical conditions allow it to.

      That does not mean any such life has ever traveled HERE. Or ever will.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:31:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Perhaps (0+ / 0-)

        But then I think you assume that all life in the universe is of equal intelligence (or equal technology).

        •  I assume no such thing (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rashaverak

          Nor is any such assumption necessary.

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:45:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  ps--there is no "perhaps" about it (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rashaverak

          They are two entirely separate questions. Just because intelligent life exists elsewhere, does not mean any of it has ever been here.

           

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:49:21 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nor does that support your thesis (0+ / 0-)

            that they havent.

            If intelligent beings have the capability to travel, and the basis for life as we know it consists of water, would they not be able to recognize a sphere covered by 70% water?

            OTOH for a silly post you seem to have populated it with a lot of personal silliness. Just sayin'

            •  whatever (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Rashaverak

              Obviously, I'm part of the conspiracy to prevent religion from being overthrown by the existence of space aliens and collapsing the entire world order. Or something.

              (snicker)  (giggle)

              This place gets sillier and sillier every day.  I thought the whole "radioactive whales from Fukushima are causing birth defects in Washington !!!" diary was the silliest thing this week, but you may have beaten that.

              (sigh)

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 03:01:55 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  No CT needed (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                certainot

                Only an open mind to consider the possibility.

                If asking the question is 'silly', kooky', or ridiculous then why spend so much time populating (i.e. -dominating) a post you obviously have nothing to contribute but to name call?

              •  our power structures would need to deny it (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joeshwingding
                the conspiracy to prevent religion from being overthrown by the existence of space aliens and collapsing the entire world order.
                it would result in the abandonment of many of the major organized religions- it would destroy our major power structures, which depend on those religions.

                so it makes perfect sense that IF we were getting visited they would want to hide the evidence.

                This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:23:23 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  so the atheist USSR conspired to hide the UFOs to (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  FG

                  protect religion . . . . ?

                  Silly CT kookery.

                  PS, most people in the US already believe in UFOs--and they don't seem to be abandoning religion. Nor is there any good reason why they would. The very core of your CT is silly nonsense.

                  In the end, reality always wins.

                  by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:28:01 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  our power structures are based on a certainty/ (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joeshwingding

                    uncertainty (fear) dynamic.

                    the USSR/russia was /is based on the same authoritarian model, just like the religious republican ideal. organized religion is just an effective management tool used in the certainty markets we call societies.

                    the 'atheist' USSR maintained power with fear and order - using order and the certainty of their leaders and their military to lead and keep the uncertain and frightened masses in line.

                    the idea that their 'leaders' were wimps (compared to the aliens) would ruin that whole power dynamic.

                    This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                    by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:46:10 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  USSR? really? (0+ / 0-)

                    What planet might you be from sir? The USSR ceased to exist in the 1980's. One might observe your silly comment as being decades out of touch with reality ... or more appropriate ... rationality. Which may explain your devout insistence of "kookiness" when it challenges your tenuous beliefs

                    Russia is a multi-ethnic and multi-faith nation. Orthodox Christianity is Russia's largest religion with 75% of the population belonging to the Orthodox Christian denomination. Islam is professed by 5% of the population. Catholicism, Protestantism, Judaism and Buddhism are professed by 1% of the population each. Other religious denominations represent 1% of the population, while 8% consider themselves atheists. Note: data is based on 2010 VCIOM survey results.

                    •  ummm . . . . (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      mookins

                      are you suggesting there was no proof proof proof of the flying saucers before 1991 . . . ? Or are you suggesting that the USSR didn't do everything it could to stamp out religion (which I presume would include all that proof proof proof for flying saucers which would, ya know, destroy religion and all that).

                      I wish you kookers would at least be consistent in your kookery.

                      (sigh)

                      In the end, reality always wins.

                      by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:01:57 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Are you trying to change the topic (0+ / 0-)

                        of which you cannot defend any longer?

                        are you suggesting there was no proof proof proof of the flying saucers before 1991
                        Not at all ... but you are.

                        Perhaps a different time period may help support your utter denial? 17th century, 3rd century? Maybe B.C.E?  All you have done is prove that power structures will only acknowledge themselves as the ultimate power in the universe.

                  •  Sooo many sightings- Air France crew, John Lennon, (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    joeshwingding

                    Gordon Cooper, Kelly Johnson- but it's like Phillip Klass of Aviation Week said to some ufologist at some symposium:

                      "You're going to spend your life studying this and at the end you'l know no more than you do now."

                    I'll suggest that if our government got wind of flying saucer tech, it'd be kept super-duper secret, just ridiculously secret!

                    Oh there's one other thing: the photo on the cover of the French COMETA report. That they used it suggests that they  thought it no hoax, and it's one crystal clear bad boy!

                    Whatever. It's trivia till it's real.

      •  i think the 2nd is the only reasonable question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        joeshwingding

        and it's perfectly reasonable for humans to go through a lifetime without experiencing or being inquisitive of evidence of this planet having been visited.

        i'm not certain but i personally believe we're getting such visits  and would have to judge a very rational intelligent good friend to be crazy if i didn't believe it.

        and it follows that our dominant power structures, which depend on organized religion to maintain order, would determine that knowledge/proof of visitation would be a threat to 'the order'.

        This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

        by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:17:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  CT kookery /nt (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Nattiq

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:29:10 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  kook and freak are badges of honor on this planet (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            joeshwingding

            This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

            by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:33:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  oddly enough, that's exactly what the creationists (0+ / 0-)

              and the ESP/Loch Ness Monster/alien abduction/ghosts fans all say, too.

              Or are you one of those, too . . . .

              (snicker)

              In the end, reality always wins.

              by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 04:43:57 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  those are just subset labels of 'unconventional' (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                joeshwingding

                or 'imaginative' etc. depending on how they're used.

                i suppose since you don't know me the meaning would be different than from a friend but in this particular context i don't take it as an insult at all. it's only significant relative to those who know you and i take it as a compliment when my friends call me that.

                but here's the thing, an aquaintence i have no reason to doubt said he saw 'the loch ness monster' with numerous others.

                another close friend remembers being abducted as a child. his sister remembers the same thing. i worked with him off and on for 20 years before he finally told me.

                i don't have to dismiss their stories just because i wasn't there. there are many other accounts like theirs. and i am not 100% certain there aren't other explanations.

                if your friends thought you might listen to them with an open mind (liberal) they might even tell you stuff like that.
                 

                This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

                by certainot on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:00:30 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Are you a realist? (0+ / 0-)

                Only things you can touch and see can you identify with. Then perhaps the "official story of 9/11" is more along your lines of belief system.

                ‘It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power.’
                — Alan Cohen

                Thanks for providing loads of laughter all afternoon. None so funny as one who is so sure of his sole existence in the universe.

                •  OK, so you can't read, either . . . . . (0+ / 0-)
                  None so funny as one who is so sure of his sole existence in the universe.
                  But I've laughed enough at your silly CT kookery.  So I leave you to watch the skies.  They are everywhere . . . . . . .

                  (snicker)  (giggle)  BWAAAA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!

                  In the end, reality always wins.

                  by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:09:52 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

  •  This UFO CT diary has 2 recs? Wow. nt (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rashaverak
  •  The Freemasons and the Illuminati... (4+ / 0-)

    ...and the Build-a-Bears have muzzled world governments for too long. Not just about our frequent visitors from distant galaxies, but also about the dangers of fluoridated water.

    But I've already said too much.

  •  We have been conditioned (4+ / 0-)

    to ridicule this basic question that has been asked for thousands of years. In my mind, it's really silly to think there not other life in the vastness of the universe. So thank you for having an open mind.

    Since we live on a watery planet, scientists are looking for water as the basic element for life, a short-sighted approach imho. Consider, for example, Arthur C. Clarke's Martian Chronicles, which was made into a movie now available at archive.org.

    One Kossack who took a documented historic approach has established an excellent site I suspect you'd enjoy.

    All the best to you.

    "Let each unique song be sung and the spell of differentiation be broken" - Winter Rabbit

    by cotterperson on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:28:25 PM PST

  •  this is the silliest thing I've read here in a (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Nattiq, Rashaverak

    long time.

    The denial of flying saucers supports the existing power structure . . . . . ?

    (shakes head)

    The silly CT woo-woo at DKos is reaching epidemic proportions.

    All that remains now is for someone to accuse me of being part of the government cover-up for laughing at it.

    In the end, reality always wins.

    by Lenny Flank on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:29:06 PM PST

  •  You are definitely not alone. (3+ / 0-)

    Just incubating in a galactic tide pool.

    Not quite ready for prime time.

  •  Ask a Kossack. (3+ / 0-)

    David Brin is a Kossack, and has studied this extensively

    I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

    by trumpeter on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 02:48:56 PM PST

  •  Intelligent design doesn't answer anything anyway. (3+ / 0-)

    Who designed the designer?

    Best Scientist Ever Predicts Bacon Will Be Element 119 On The Periodic Table

    by dov12348 on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 03:04:21 PM PST

  •  There have been many legends (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joeshwingding
    "There have been many legends suggesting that Earth has been visited in the past by other races."

    "I know: I've read the Historical Research Section's report. It makes Earth look like the crossroads of the Universe."

    "There may have been visits about which you know nothing," said Stormgren, still angling hopefully.

    "Though since you must have been observing us for thousands of years, I suppose that's rather unlikely."

    "I suppose it is," replied Karellen, in his most unhelpful manner.

    Childhood's End, Arthur C. Clarke, p. 45.
  •  I'd say the chances that life exists somewhere in (4+ / 0-)

    the billions of galaxies which each contain billions of stars is 100%.  We've already learned that planets are far from rare, so if you have billions of billions of systems, there will be life unless you can explain why it could only happen here.

    What I care about is whether we'll ever meet that other life.  Lots of people focus on the problem of how widely separated star systems are, and problems of traveling the vast distances.

    To me, time is at least as big a separating factor.  The whole period of human existence is so tiny compared to the life of the universe.  Given how rapidly we've changed in just the past century or so, I suspect people in say 500 years will have almost nothing in common with us.  Aliens would have even less in common with us even if both species were at roughly comparable technological developmental stages.

    The odds of two species meeting at a time when both could profit from that meeting are likely very small.  I think this probably answers the question of "given how widespread life must be, why are none of them here today talking to us?"

    But I could be wrong . . .

  •  People don't understand SIZE and TIME problems (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joeshwingding, skohayes, FG

    The universe is a big, big place - so big that most people cannot grasp it, because it's totally out of our way of thinking. Here's what you have to remember about alien life; say by the most optimistic chance, an alien life form rose to intelligence and civilization 1000 light years away from us, 700 years ago. That means we won't even know about it for another 300 years!

    And a 1000 light year sized bubble around us, is REALLY REALLY SMALL on a galactic scale. Great civilizations may have existed 50,000 LY away for thousands of years, and it may still be tens of thousands of years before we can detect them.

    People may think 'what about travel between stars, surely some aliens have done that and colonized the galaxy' - but this is assuming that there is an efficient, affordable method of traveling between star systems. And THERE MIGHT NOT BE! We have to recognize and accept this fact - even in-system space travel is hugely expensive, and creating a slower-than-light spacecraft to travel between the stars is so expensive and complex that the cost would be enormous, and would have no certain pay-off for the civilization that built it. Even our fastest spacecraft, the Voyager probe which was launched in the 1970s, would take over 200,000 years to travel to our nearest neighbor star, Proxima Centauri.

    If there REALLY were aliens able to travel to other star systems, they'd be in other, closer star systems to us too - either exploring or colonizing, and if so they'd be detectable by technology we've had since the 1960s. If they're not in the Centauri system, Barnard's Star system, Epsilon Eridani system etc..... then they're not here.

    "When does the greed stop, we ask the other side? That's the question and that's the issue." - Senator Ted Kennedy

    by Fordmandalay on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 03:37:36 PM PST

    •  I was with you... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      certainot

      ....riiiiiiight up until that last paragraph.

      What technology that we've had since the 1960s would be capable of detecting life forms in other star systems???

      •  Radio telescopes for one. (0+ / 0-)

        Also gamma, microwave and X-ray detectors. These were all developed to detect Soviet nuclear space testing, and were aimed into space to watch them. Actually when they first turned on the gamma detectors, they thought the Soviets were testing huge nuclear bombs in deep space - then when they realized that was impossible, they next thought it was alien civilizations having atomic wars. It turned out to be gamma bursts from black holes and supernovae.

        And of course the microwave detectors discovered the cosmic microwave background, which was the energy left over from the Big Bang.

        "When does the greed stop, we ask the other side? That's the question and that's the issue." - Senator Ted Kennedy

        by Fordmandalay on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:54:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  SIZE and TIME problems even bigger than you think (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      joeshwingding

      The Milky Way galaxy (aka "Mutter's Spiral") is only one among a googolplex of galaxies in the universe - and there is no guarantee that any intelligent aliens would be in this galaxy.

      And if they're not - the distance between stars is small indeed compared to the distance between galaxies. The nearest major galaxy, M31 Andromeda, is approximately 2.5 million light-years away.

      Nobody's going to be dropping in for tea from there without some kind of time travel as well as space travel.

      If it's
      Not your body,
      Then it's
      Not your choice
      And it's
      None of your damn business!

      by TheOtherMaven on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 08:30:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  it also begs the question of why they'd bother (0+ / 0-)

        If life is common, then what makes us so special that the space aliens would give a rat's ass about us--much less travel all the way across the galaxy to see us and then just hide from us anyway . . .

        In the end, reality always wins.

        by Lenny Flank on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 02:21:46 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  people (and Hollywood) also don't grasp the (0+ / 0-)

      difficulties of TIME DILATION.

      Even if we had lightspeed or hyperspace travel, it won't solve our problems. There is the problem of time dilation, in which people traveling at the speed of light experience time more slowly than the rest of the universe. In the movies, Princess Leia sets off at lightspeed with the plans for the Death Star and arrives just in time to prepare the rebels for the attack. In reality, though, while Princess Leia's trip through hyperspace takes only an hour, a hundred years passes in the rest of the universe--by the time Leia actually gets to Yavin, it has long been destroyed, the Death Star has already rusted away, and everyone she ever knew is dead of old age.

      If the space aliens see our broadcasts of "I Love Lucy" and decide to visit, it may taken them only a dozen years for them at lightspeed to get here, but hundreds or thousands of years would have passed for us and the rest of the universe. So even if they have FTL travel, they still won't get here until all of us are long-dead and our civilization disappears. The idea that they can see our broadcasts in 1940 and get here by 1960 or even 2010, is just wrong, no matter WHAT lightspeed technology they have.

      The flying saucer fans do not understand the most basic science.

      In the end, reality always wins.

      by Lenny Flank on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 02:19:24 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  "do not understand the most basic science." (0+ / 0-)

        Now thats funny ... considering

        "the Death Star has already rusted away" ... tell me the basic science of rust in deep space.

        Bwahahaha!  ugh!

        •  I assume the Death Star has oxygen inside it (0+ / 0-)

          I didn't notice everyone wearing oxygen masks. Did you?

          But thanks for the misdirection. I notice you did nothing to answer my point.

          Nor will you.

          Unless it's with some arm-waving about magic technology. (which is irrelevant since relativity happens no matter what the technology).

          In the end, reality always wins.

          by Lenny Flank on Sat Mar 08, 2014 at 07:45:54 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Are we alone? is not the question (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TheOtherMaven

    I wonder about. Rather, I question whether we are a species that other intelligent life would want anything to do with. Sadly, I say no, thus if there's intelligent life out there, then they are proving it by staying as far from us as possible.

    True wealth is a measure of what one gives.

    by WiseFerret on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 05:30:08 PM PST

  •  Forget intelligent design. For that matter (0+ / 0-)

    forget intelligent answers.  Concentrate on intelligent questions.

    Ted Cruz president? Pardon my Vietnamese, but Ngo Pho King Way.

    by ZedMont on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 09:40:56 PM PST

  •  Life or sentient life? (0+ / 0-)

    It seems to me that when people ask this question they really mean is there sentient life elsewhere in the universe as opposed to life of any kind?  I'll remind you that there are an estimated 8.7 million lifeforms on Earth and the only one is completely sentient is us.  This lowers the probability of other creatures capable of understanding and manipulating matter the way we do a lot.  

    I couldn't find a link to it but have read that by weight the bulk of all living matter on Earth is also the oldest and among the simplest, its actually bacteria.  It does seem logical that if chemistry is in fact the same everywhere then at least simple life would almost certainly exist on some of the billions of trillions of worlds out there.

    Don't expect an attack of the "Amoeba that Ate the Earth" anytime soon.    

    A bad idea isn't responsible for those who believe it. ---Stephen Cannell

    by YellerDog on Fri Mar 07, 2014 at 09:46:44 PM PST

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