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The Mozilla Project finds itself caught in a firestorm over the political views on gay rights of its newly appointed CEO.

Brendan Eich declines to discuss donation to campaign against gay marriage in California but says he will not resign

The new CEO of Mozilla, the not-for-profit organisation behind the Firefox web browser, declined on Tuesday to offer a rationale for his 2008 donation in support of California's gay marriage ban, insisting he would remain in post despite a backlash over his appointment.

Giving interviews for the first time since he was announced as the new boss of Mozilla on 24 March, Brendan Eich repeatedly refused to be drawn on his stance on gay rights amid a widespread row over his $1,000 donation in support of the successful Proposition 8 ballot measure.

“So I don't want to talk about my personal beliefs because I kept them out of Mozilla all these 15 years we've been going,” he told the Guardian. “I don't believe they're relevant.”

At the time of the heated campaign over CA prop 8 which established a state constitutional ban against marriage equality there were several high profile controversies over individuals who donated a $1000 or more in support of the proposition. That is the threshold for public reporting of campaign contributions is CA. There was at least one situation in which a theater director came under pressure to resign because of such a contribution. Now the same thing has surfaced at Mozilla.
The first week of Eich's tenure had been marked by a series of public statements by Mozilla staff protesting his appointment, the resignation of three of Mozilla's directors, and a denunciation from dating site OkCupid, which urged all Firefox users to change browsers.

Eich said OkCupid's move was “rash”, and was keen to downplay other moves since his appointment.

Though his stance on equal marriage had been made public through his donation, Eich said he did not believe it was relevant to his role at Mozilla, and said the organisation's own code of conduct precluded him discussing his views.

This comes at a time when right wing campaigns for laws to protect "religious liberty" have become increasingly visible. The tech industry in general has shown a tendency to adopt gay friendly and gay supportive employment policies. That has created a climate of people who are not likely to be well disposed to a CEO who has a history of anti-gay political activity.

The Mozilla Foundation which controls the Mozilla Corporation of which Eich is CEO, depends on public contributions for the support of its projects. The political activities of people in leadership positions in the organizations can have a definite impact on important sources of revenue. Therefore it is really not something that the organization can just be indifferent about. This situation will likely become a political football.

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Comment Preferences

  •  explains why all my mozilla installations blew up (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JeffW, dave1042, Richard Lyon, Tonedevil, 3rock
    Giving interviews for the first time since he was announced as the new boss of Mozilla on 24 March, Brendan Eich repeatedly refused to be drawn on his stance on gay rights amid a widespread row over his $1,000 donation in support of the successful Proposition 8 ballot measure.

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 09:52:38 AM PDT

  •  I wonder what Eich was thinking when he donated (30+ / 0-)

    that money? Seriously, there are few industries as openly supportive of gay rights as the software biz and the open source community even more so. So why did he choose to stand up for bigotry and support Prop 8? He had to know he was pissing off people he worked with when he did it. That speaks volumes about his character and his choices and he's a fool to think people will not question him for it.

    Food processed to be nothing more than simple starches with two dozen flavorings and stabilizers added to make it appear to be food isn't "food". It's "feed" -- what you give to livestock to fatten them up for slaughter.

    by ontheleftcoast on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 09:55:49 AM PDT

  •  His CNET interview yesterday (30+ / 0-)

    I felt was horrible for Mozilla (interview here).  It's obvious he's incapable of understanding why this is still an issue and refuses to say whether he would continue to oppose equal rights for the GLBT community outside of work hours.  

    Also this from the interview:

    Eich: I am CEO, and I'm confident I am the best person for the job right now. I serve at the board's pleasure. If that should change, I'll do something else. I don't think it's good for my integrity or Mozilla's integrity to be pressured into changing a position. If Mozilla became more exclusive and required more litmus tests, I think that would be a mistake that would lead to a much smaller Mozilla, a much more fragmented Mozilla.

    We have a strong Indonesian community. We're developing Firefox OS to go into market there. I have people there on the other side of this particular issue. They don't bring it into Mozilla when they work in the Mozilla community. I met a lot of them at Mozcamp 2012 in Singapore. They don't have quite the megaphone in that part of the world. But the Mozilla mission and our inclusiveness principles really must matter to include them too.

    seems just bizarre. Justifying discrimination of GLBTs because hey, those Indonesians hate you too?

    I switched to Chrome last week...

    Adopt a homeless cat and have a friend for life

    by dave1042 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 09:56:16 AM PDT

    •  He doesn't have any gay friends... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dave1042, LuvSet, Tonedevil, Dem Beans, MadEye

      But he has affiliation with a 'strong' Indonesian Community.  So there is that.

      “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

      by RichM on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:08:08 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  So he says it's a personal and strictly private (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, dave1042

      issue when it comes to statements regarding the USA sphere re:  his donation; but when it comes to the future Indonesian market, he sees no separation between his private donation and attitudes, and the business and marketing of Mozilla in Indonesia.

      Sounds like opportunistic double-standard-ness done for the sake of making money.  And pretty weak principle.  Just bigotry and a convenient double standard.

      That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

      by concernedamerican on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:31:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's Public (0+ / 0-)

        This is precisely why his donation is public knowledge: it's important to the public, not just to him and his private affairs.

        He's the CEO of a community. He's the public face. His public actions reflect on the community. If he burned a cross on a Black family's lawn on his own time he'd still rightly face pressure to resign as Mozilla Foundation CEO. He "rejects" the equation of his homophobia to racism. Because he's the boss, y'all!

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:38:21 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I agree. That interview was terrible. (0+ / 0-)

      His main talking point was that Mozilla is an inclusive company at its core and mentions inclusiveness at least 12 times.  He talks about how inclusive he has been within the company during the last 16 years and how important inclusive is to Mozilla's mission going forward, best man for the job, blah, blah.

      Does he not see the conflict between his two positions:  He's so, so inclusive on the job and it's essential for the company to be inclusive, but, well off the job?  F the gays and their right to marry like the rest us.  Their is no way to reconcile those two positions honestly so he does it dishonestly.  Some Money quotes to illustrate:

      I've been as fair and inclusive as anyone -- I think more.
      I still think it's pretty important to judge people by how they treat others, in my case for over 16 years, and allow them to separate some of their deeply held beliefs which do not come into play in their role at an organization like Mozilla -- even the CEO role.

      So, according to Eich, it's all about how you treat others, ecept it's ok to treat gays as unequal.
      I'm trying to overcome barriers that marginalize people.
      Yeah, he actually said that about himself.  But the gay marriage barrier is A OK.
      One of the things about my principles of inclusiveness is not just that you leave it at the door, but that you don't require others to put targets on themselves by labeling their beliefs, because that will present problems and will be seen as divisive.
      Donating money to block gay marriage?  Not divisive at all, right?
      If we get our message out about inclusiveness and how Mozilla cannot succeed without being truly globally inclusive, then we'll have trouble. I expect I'll be helpful there, too, in the long run.
      Does Mr. Eich not see that they are already having trouble?  Does he not see the problem people have believing that he embraces inclusiveness, except for the part about including gays in marriage? For a smart person, he sure is dumb, but pretty adept at mental gymnastics, and absolving himself.

      Oh, and I'll betcha he's Mormon.  Lots of practice with mental gymnastics.

  •  Have to say I'm conflicted on this one (24+ / 0-)

    There's no evidence that Mozilla would change any existing attitude toward gay employees, contractors and the like, and it's not like Firefox would suddenly stop working on the computers of LGBT users, and he's not roaming around the news making a spectacle of himself, so I'm wondering what's the point of this?

    It's not like you can't find something wrong with any other company should you choose: Google has made decisions people disagree with, boycott Chrome! And no one need say anything about Microsoft, that one's a given.

    •  I say let the employees decide (9+ / 0-)

      If I were an employee, I couldn't work for someone like him.

      KOS: "Mocking partisans focusing on elections? Even less reason to be on Daily Kos."

      by fcvaguy on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:04:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I did that (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      nellgwen, Tonedevil, blueoasis

      boycott Chrome when I boycotted Google and went with Ixquick and startpage.

      Hmmm any other browsers out there the more savvy interwebbers are using?

      But you know, I guess you're right you can find most anything like you say.. however, I am moving into mode of giving my action a voice, making better decisions of those I use products or support.

      But as Richard Lyon comments, Firfox has been such a crashing pain and slow for about 4-5 months now so.. I was looking anyway.

      •  Lynx is still around (nt) (6+ / 0-)

        warning: snark probably above

        by NE2 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:21:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  i have Linux Mint (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, Skyye, cville townie

        which comes with it's own web browser.

        Well I'm just a tree, but if I were you I'd listen to your GHOST FRIEND! Howard-Big Bang Theory

        by nellgwen on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:47:28 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks about, Mint Box (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cville townie, nellgwen

          I'm not a geek, even slightly. Would you perhaps consider writing a diary on the linux mint? Is it like the older linux still? Meaning no point and click?

          I wonder if I could move from windows and understand it.

          Thanks NE2, also! I looked at that one but I have windows 7 right now.

          •  I'm not an expert at all on anything computer-like (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Skyye, Tonedevil, terabytes

               I know I had an issue with with windows so I asked my cousin to install Linux. I was just getting to the point where I felt comfortable to learn more, then my computer crashed. The power jack failed. I've been without a computer since Jan. 21, 14. I just got this new ASUS
            i5. I immediately had my cousin install Linux Mint 13. I love Linux and I do not look back. I can tell you I do most certainly point and click.
                I do know that you can do a search for Ubuntu Install fests. And see if there are any in your area. In any event contact them, they may be able to let you know who and where you can get Linux installed on your computer. Or answer any other questions you may have.
               I know that the next computer I buy will have Linux installed already.
            There are some gorgeous sexy computers that have Linux pre-installed. Letting you pick from Ubuntu, or Mint.
                That way you don't have to deal with microsoft or windows ever.
                 Look at a company called System 76 or Zareason.

            Well I'm just a tree, but if I were you I'd listen to your GHOST FRIEND! Howard-Big Bang Theory

            by nellgwen on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:23:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  It was based on Ubuntu, I think it's Debian now. (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Skyye, nellgwen

            You only have to deal with a command line if you really want to.

        •  based on mozilla (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dconrad, nellgwen

          That linux mint browser is a repackaged version of mozilla firefox.

      •  I use Waterfox and Srware Iron myself (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Skyye

        though if you are on a newer 32 bit system (or need 32 bit plugin support) Pale Moon works just fine.  Both Waterfox and Pale Moon (and IceWeasel, for older systems) are based on Firefox source code and Iron is Chromium/Chrome based.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:04:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wow Thanks you guys (as a general term) (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Throw The Bums Out

          That's all great info everyone and gives me great direction to do some research!

          I'm pretty sure while I have this rebel against the big thing going, I'll just let microsoft take leave too!

          I'm glad to hear no command lines are required!

          I'll look at differences in Ubuntu and linux now, have this one wiped and backed up and get the linux. I found you can get libreOffice on it so that will work out :)

          And I'll get one of those other browsers too!

          Thanks again!

          •  Well I dumped Firefox for Waterfox (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Skyye

            because Waterfox is much faster being a 64 bit browser compiled with newer CPU instructions (Firefox is actually compiled for the original Pentium still).  Note that Waterfox is Windows only though IceCat/IceWeasel should be available for 64 bit Linux.  Sadly Iron is still 32 bit but is available for Windows, Mac, and Linux but it is still faster than Chrome as all the privacy invading stuff has been removed.

            You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:06:24 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I tried (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Throw The Bums Out

              to get waterfox, but it requires 64 bit machine?

              Is that in the motherboard, meaning I need a new board?

              I got the Iron and I do like it, thanks a ton!

              •  It is either the CPU or the operating system. Do (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Skyye

                you know what CPU (Pentium IV, Atom, i3, i5, or i7) you have?

                You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Apr 03, 2014 at 12:01:01 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Throw The Bums Out

                  Intel(R) Core(TM)13-3220 CPU @ 3.30GHz

                  System Type 32-bit Operating System

                  So I think I need to see about a 64 bit one for that and for the IPv6  readiness stuff I'm just now being to try to assimilate, that blacksheep1, made me aware of.

                  You guys either one ever think or do you already do any diaries on these topics?

                  •  Well if your ISP does not have ipv6 it is (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Skyye

                    a royal pain in the ass to do as you need to not only set up a linkedin account but write an essay as to why you want ipv6.

                    I assume you have Windows 7, right?  If so then I believe you can download the Windows 7 64 bit ISO from Microsoft (google for the links) and just use your existing product key to "upgrade" to the 64 bit version from your existing 32 bit one.

                    You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                    by Throw The Bums Out on Thu Apr 03, 2014 at 03:06:38 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  When the right brought Hobby Lobby, the rules (8+ / 0-)

      changed. Depending on the outcome of that case, that CEO could one day have the power to dictate the corporate's health plan based on his religious convictions.  No health benefits for partners in same-sex couples!

      Unintended consequences and all...

      •  Yes, but... (6+ / 0-)

        ...choosing to boycott under those circumstances would be a little different.  Because it would then be a boycott about what a company is actually doing to it's employees.

        As it is, if Mozilla offers a workplace with gay friendly policies, I'm not sure that I feel comfortable supporting a boycott because of what the CEO did six years ago.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:37:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Then that is your choice. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          mrdreked

          Other people may a different choice.

        •  Who said anything about a boycott? (3+ / 0-)

          My post goes directly to the possible harms to the employees if their new CEO should take a "Christian" stance in a post pro-Hobby Lobby landscape.  Denying benefits for same-sex couples, in contravention of state law in some places, is a real possibility post Hobby Lobby.  Would this guy do it?  Who knows.  But as soon as we start to let the corporation reflect the values of the people who own and run it, we go down a very slippery slope.

          I don't believe what this person does with their money off corporate time is the business of anyone... IF the corporation he directs doesn't have a political or religious voice.  Once that corporation has a political or religious voice than it damn well does matter who the CEO is and what positions he espouses.  

          The Right is fucking up corporate governance.  And they don't even know it.  

    •  Well let's put it this way, would you trust (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon

      that CEO not to give out synced information on GLBT people to say, Russian authorities or (even worse) Ugandan authorities if requested?  Like it or not, the CEO of Mozilla has access to quite a bit of personal information.

      You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:06:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Agree, company policy trumps CEO opinion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mrdreked, Simplify, wesmorgan1

      In 2001, I joined a company that offered the same benefits to same-sex domestic partners that it did to married couples. I was proud to contribute my efforts to the company, regardless of the personal opinions of the two CEOs that we had during my time there. If they were bigots, they didn't impose their bigotry on the workplace. And yes, LGBT staff were well represented in management, and an executive VP was widely considered to be LGBT.

      There's more to the Brendan Eich story that IMO mitigates the impact of the promotion. Brendan Eich was one of the founders of Mozilla. In that capacity, if he'd wanted to impose bigoted policies, he might well have been able to do so without needing to rise to the CEO spot.

      In addition, he was the company's CTO for close to a decade, making him a quasi-logical choice for CEO. (I say "quasi-logical" because some Mozilla board members resigned because if the guy hadn't delivered on Mozilla's mobile OS as CTO, why did he deserve promotion to CEO? If he couldn't get the job done when he was CTO, how is making him CEO going to improve anything? But their resignations didn't have anything to do with Eich's stance on marriage equality.)

      Finally, there's the issue of "boycotting" a product that is free. Even if Eich is a bigot, I'm not contributing to his company's coffers to begin with. My/our uninstalling Firefox would be a symbolic gesture, one that could cause a PR problem for the company, but that wouldn't hurt the company financially because the product is free. Given how superior (generally) the product is over its competitors (the NoScript add-on allows you to control what scripts are allowed to run), uninstalling it could ultimately cost me more than it costs them.

      That being said, I'd certainly revisit my position if he did start imposing bigoted policies on his employees.

      preborner: (n.) one who believes that the right to life begins at conception and ends at birth.

      Repeal Benghazi!

      .

      by 1BQ on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:46:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Boycotting a product that is free (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil

        When you run a Google search in the search bar of Firefox, Mozilla gets paid royalties by Google for directing traffic to them. So, unless you've configured a different search provider, you're paying Mozilla just by using Firefox.

        La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

        by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:22:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  If these CEO's are happy... (24+ / 0-)

    that their corporations are 'people' and have a (very loud) voice in the political process - then damn straight their personal donations are relevant to those who do business with them.  But of course they will try to have it both ways.

    “Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck (Disputed)

    by RichM on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:04:39 AM PDT

  •  The first amendment protects (19+ / 0-)

    the right to political speech. However, it also protects the rights of other people to have negative opinions about a person's political speech and to engage in political activity to protest those opinions.

  •  A Friend of Mine Asked How I Would Feel (11+ / 0-)

    if I were fired for my political views and contributions.  I agree that being fired for political views is wrong, but I don't see this as political view, I see it as a human/civil rights issue.

    Unfortunately, it seems that the Republicans seem to base their entire political party on denying various groups their human/civil rights, such as:

     - Voting rights
     - Religious freedom or freedom from religion
     - Right to marry
     - Right to die
     - Right to decide if and when to have children
     - Right to a living wage
     - Right to health care
     - Freedom of speech (unless you own a corporation or Supreme Court Judge).

    The only rights they seem to fight for are the right to bear whatever arms a person can think of and the right to stand your ground and shoot black kids armed with skittles.

    "The Trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." attributed to Lily Tomlin

    by uniqity on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:23:28 AM PDT

    •  I just figure at this point (8+ / 0-)

      that he and his side lost in the courts, so it was just wasted money -- in sports terms, we got scoreboard. As long as he's not going to use his heavy hand to change employee policies towards LGBTs (or anyone else), he can believe what he wants, it doesn't change the law in California.

      There's only one rule that I know of, babies -- goddammit, you've got to be kind. -- Kurt Vonnegut

      by Cali Scribe on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:27:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  In constitutional terms policy issues (3+ / 0-)

      are political speech. The kind of politics where an employer tried to force you to vote for a specific candidate is political in the narrowest sense of the term. However, support for a ballot campaign is more political than just voicing an opinion. It also depends a lot on what a person's job is. Somebody doing a low visibility function is in a different position that an executive who represents to organization to the public.

      •  You Definitely Have a Point (3+ / 0-)

        My cousin worked for Marriott for many years and finally left them for another job when he realized that they wouldn't promote a gay man any further than he had already gone. I don't know if they've changed this unspoken policy or not.

        "The Trouble with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat." attributed to Lily Tomlin

        by uniqity on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:45:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "Political views" are not a protected class (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LuvSet, uniqity

      In most states, you can be fired for your political views and there isn't thing one you can do about it.

      Libertarianism is just Fascism with a facelift. Scratch the surface of Libertarianism and you will find the notion that corporations should rule supreme, just as it was with Fascism..

      by Walt starr on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:53:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the right to bear arms (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      uniqity

      I've started to suspect that the reason the Republicans fight so hard to liberalize gun laws - is so they have justification for the militarization of police departments. It's not that they care about gun rights for the little people - it's because they want tanks in the PD garage.

    •  Guess that really depends on what the "views" are (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, dconrad

      If your political views are "concentration camps weren't so bad" then maybe you should expect back-lash.  

      Calling something a political view or a belief or whatever else someone wants to call it, doesn't make the belief and support of policy in the vein of that belief automatically "Okay."  

  •  Screw OKCupid (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    falconer520, Simplify

    Not that I'd visit that site in the first place, but I'm not of the mind it's anyone's business what browser I use.

    If they're going to use User Agent to lecture me instead of serve the webpage, I'm just going to forge the damn thing.

  •  Can't get behind this one... (20+ / 0-)

    Look, what people do with their personal political speech and their personal funds is their business.

    Had he done this with Mozilla's corporate funds (similar to Chik-Fil-A's "foundation" funding of anti-LGBT groups), then we could reasonably discuss Mozilla's corporate responsibility.

    He didn't do that; he used his own money.

    If we're going to start holding employers accountable for the personal political donations of their employees, then--wait for it--we must also support any employer who punishes/fires every employee who donates to a Democratic candidate or progressive ballot initiative.

    I'd much rather hold to "Employers should not take retribution against employees for their personal political activities," even when I disapprove of specific political activities.

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:41:01 AM PDT

    •  same view here (5+ / 0-)

      it was a personal donation in 2008.  Does this mark him for life?

      "The only person sure of himself is the man who wishes to leave things as they are, and he dreams of an impossibility" -George M. Wrong.

      by statsone on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:51:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  But the employees (5+ / 0-)

      that have to work under this guy and the people who donate to the organization also have the right to express their political opinions. Those political expressions can create consequences for the organization that the board of directors has to deal with. Three board members have resigned in what appears to be a reaction to his appointment.

      The question I would ask is just how far are you willing to extend such protection. Do you think that people such be assured of such protection no matter what political positions that might make donations to?

      •  You don't have a right to a boss you like. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        badscience, Catte Nappe

        Look, as soon as this becomes a workplace issue in any way--through overt business actions on his part, not just hypotheticals and assumptions--then, by all means, have at it.

        I'll ask the same question I asked in another diary on this subject - would a 2000 donation to David Duke disqualify him?

        I can find a political reason to complain about anyone - and so can you, and so can anyone else. It's a hole with no bottom.

        While we're at it, I'd like to hear your reaction to my earlier statement:

        If we're going to start holding employers accountable for the personal political donations of their employees, then--wait for it--we must also support any employer who punishes/fires every employee who donates to a Democratic candidate or progressive ballot initiative.
        Employees are employees, whether they be CEO or entry-level grunt. You seem to be supporting employer action in this particular instance, but what about the instance of employees being penalized for supporting causes we like?

        The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

        by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:24:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As an employee you do have a right to quit. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          catwho, The Red Pen, Tonedevil

          If enough people or key people exercise that right it will have a detrimental impact on the organization. This organization depends on donors, both people who give money and people who contribute activity and support to the open source support. They have a right to withhold those donations. That will have a negative impact on the organization.

          If an employer retaliates against employees on a partisan basis, I have a right to protest that activity if I choose to.  

          •  Sure, and when Eich does that as CEO... (0+ / 0-)

            ...we can have an entirely different conversation.

            Right now, you're pulling up a six-year-old piece of political activity, demanding what you consider "justice" and encouraging others to join your cause. That isn't a reaction to anything he's done as CEO, but rather vengeance for something done six years ago.

            By the way, please answer this question:

            I'll ask the same question I asked in another diary on this subject - would a 2000 donation to David Duke disqualify him?
            You must have missed it when I first asked, but I'd like to hear your answer.

            The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

            by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:50:48 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I'm not pulling up anything. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tonedevil

              This story is all over the major media outlets. I am reporting it here. Admittedly as a gay man who was an active opponent of prop 8 I have my sympathies. Neither in the diary, not in my comments I have not urged anybody to take any specific action. I have simply discussed the issues about their rights to do so.

              I would certainly find a contribution to David Duke to be morally objectionable. To the extent that I had input into a hiring decision I would be inclined to give it serious consideration.  I would not take the same position on someone who donated to the campaign of George Bush.

      •  Yes, but... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader
        But the employees that have to work under this guy and the people who donate to the organization also have the right to express their political opinions.
        They have the right to express their political views, but they don't have the right to expect that everyone in their workplace (including the boss) shares their views.  Granted, employees who don't like their work environment (and the views expressed by coworkers can be a part of that environment) can choose to leave that environment...but, in general, if you're not able to work with people who have different political views, that's really kind of limiting.

        The bottom line is that the day will come when same sex marriage is no more controversial than interracial marriage, and at that point those who express such views will be about as welcome as someone passing gas loudly in the middle of a meeting.  But we're not there today.

        Political Compass: -6.75, -3.08

        by TexasTom on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:43:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh, and those 3 board members? (0+ / 0-)

        The Wall Street Journal reported:

        The three board members who resigned sought a CEO from outside Mozilla with experience in the mobile industry who could help expand the organization’s Firefox OS mobile-operating system and balance the skills of co-founders Eich and Baker, the people familiar with the situation said.
        In other words, they apparently resigned for reasons related to Mozilla's business, not Eich's political activities. They wanted an outsider as CEO and didn't get one.

        The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

        by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:24:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Would you feel the same about anti-Semitism? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon, wader, burlydee, Tonedevil

      I am somewhat conflicted about this as well, but for me, as a gay man, this is about more than a mere political position or donation. The Prop 8 campaign, like all anti-gay campaign, was not about a political issue. It was about a civil rights issue, and the donations people like Eich made funded a massive propaganda campaign meant to dehumanize, demean and degrade LGBT people. According to Prop 8 supporters, our equality would meant the end of civilization itself.

      Had Eich contributed to a political cause or movement that had a similar propaganda campaign painting all Jews as money-grubbing, alien, Christ-killers, would we even be having this discussion?

      Cruelty might be very human, and it might be very cultural, but it's not acceptable.- Jodie Foster

      by CPT Doom on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:43:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The cold fact of the matter... (0+ / 0-)

        ...is that the events of the last few years have taken place in order to determine, in this chaotic system of ours, whether this was a "political issue" or a "civil rights issue."

        We've gone through this process in a wide range of topics. For instance, the parental right to homeschool their children owes its existence to a wave of anti-German sentiment that led Nebraska to prohibit the teaching of the German language, even in private homes. Heterosexuals didn't fully enjoy a fundamental right to marry the adult of their choice until Loving v. Virginia was hashed out.

        Yes, we see it as an obvious civil rights issue. Historically, though, it falls in line with any number of other issues, each of which went through their own "political or civil rights" process.

        To speak directly to your hypothetical question concerning anti-Semitism, consider Henry Ford. One might suggest that we've already gone through the crucible on the question you offered. Having said that, though, the comparison does raise an interesting question; does Eich's $1000 donation put him at the same level as Ford's publication of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the weekly screeds of the Dearborn Independent (distributed via Ford dealers nationwide), and the publication of The International Jew?

        The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

        by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:20:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'm in wait and see mode for this (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Greenfinches

      Still using Firefox, have been testing going back to Opera but it can't take the load that FF handles (still).

      Nonetheless, Eich needs a resetting of his expectations: he's in a very public position in a company that I feel Richard Lyon did not help portray in the appropriate context for this diary: Mozilla is extremely open about equal opportunity and respect for all of their employees and Eich has reportedly both acted and formally agreed (as part of this position change) to uphold those values and policies within the company.  There are employees calling for him to recant his Prop 8 positions or resign - with no fear of reprisals, because the company is very open about employees speaking their minds on all sorts of topics.

      How Mozilla changes under his leadership remains to be seen, but despite his personal intransigence on the topic of marriage equality, he has remained staunchly supportive for his employees.

      Now, whether people want to boycott a company whose leader may not support the same policies and respect for non-employees is a different matter, admittedly.

      "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

      by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:47:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'm not clear as to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader, Tonedevil

        what it is you think I failed to portray.

        The linked Guardian article has some more details in it.

        •  Because you discussed the Mozilla Corporation (0+ / 0-)

          and the outspoken words+actions of those within who have protested the promotion of Eich to CEO, I feel it would have been most helpful to readers at this site if you briefly portrayed their environment for the "messiness" that it happens to represent - i.e., it's very grey to many in their company:

          . . .

          The company has defended its attitude toward an equal opportunity workplace, and the issue of same-sex marriage too: “... Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. No matter who you are or who you love, everyone deserves the same rights and to be treated equally,” it wrote in a statement.

          The surprisingly public nature of the debate is a result of Mozilla's unusual environment in which employees are free to voice their opinions publicly on blogs and social media. Quite a number have availed themselves of that option.

          Interestingly, several self-described “Queer Mozillians” have supported Eich. Jason Duell tweeted that Eich is “LGBTQ friendly,” and that he doesn’t “feel threatened” by Eich. Duell came out to the company as a polyamorous member of the BDSM community in 2011. Other, non-LGBT employees also support Eich as CEO.

          . . .

          As for Eich himself, he echoed Mozilla’s statement in his own blog post, explaining how open and friendly the organization was for the LGBT employees. “I am committed to ensuring that Mozilla is, and will remain, a place that includes and supports everyone, regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, age, race, ethnicity, economic status, or religion,” he wrote.

          Mozilla is a much larger place than Eich's narrow cultural views of marriage inequality represent, I feel - targeting him and putting heat on his support for bias/hate is entirely appropriate, I feel.  But, implicitly making Mozilla seem fully represented by his aspect of his personal views is not quite so clear a path, per the quote above.  I'd hate to see a relatively progressive company taken down by a single appointment, if that can be avoided, but fully support speaking out and petitioning the company about his being chosen in today's environment.  And, I feel that Eich does himself no favors by continuing to avoid personal questions about his sociopolitical stance outside of the company's realm, since this point has become bigger than Mozilla.

          In summary, I feel that you don't need to "load" your argument in this case to still full gain traction with our community, when it comes to raising awareness and discussing followup actions to help deal with Eich's support for inequality outside of the company.  The company is good example of progressive values in itself and larger, supportive community - they have now made a single mistake and looking at things in that light can help to determine best reactions to the situation.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:12:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am reporting the Guardian article. (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wader, burlydee, Tonedevil

            I copied as much of it as I thought was allowable under fair use. It does provide a little more background on Mozilla.

            In reporting on the controversy and inviting a discussion I don't feel that I have loaded anything. I did not make any statements one way or another about Mozilla and its policies and atmosphere. The first sentence contains a link to the Wiki article on Mozilla.

            I disagree with you expectations. A diary is not required to be an exhaustive research project. I don't think that I have presented false or distorted information.

            •  Sure, you can disagree, but what have you (0+ / 0-)

              portrayed?

              Eich is the new CEO of Mozilla, he's supported a bad stance (i.e., a point on which we would all agree) . . . everyone do what you will.

              That's touching the surface of this issue.

              I didn't ask to be fully exhaustive, but to offer a more contextual explanation of his role in the company so many will habitually eschew after reading the diary.

              Not everyone reads the links, which is also a point to consider.  Diaries easily take on lives of their own based upon the hot-button issues they helpfully convey.

              I can't and won't tell you how you must present anything in a diary or comment, but I feel quite enabled to offer critique and suggestion in the manner above.

              Thanks for replying and offering your perspective.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:28:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You might have mentioned that... (0+ / 0-)
              As an employer, Mozilla supports LGBT marriage and provides benefits to same-sex spouses.
              The Guardian mentioned it, and it's particularly germane to this controversy - because, as a co-founder, CTO and member of the Board of Directors, it's fairly safe to say that Eich had "input" on the decision to offer these benefits.

              In fact, comparing his personal political activity to Mozilla's corporate decision to support marriage equality and offer benefits to same-sex spouses would seem to give strong credence to another point in the article:

              Eich defined inclusiveness at Mozilla as leaving political issues upon which coders or community members might disagree out of the office.
              I'd say those points are important to this discussion.

              The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

              by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:38:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Well I know that Firefox can't handle the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wader

        load that Waterfox does, which is why I switched around a month ago.  Of course, that means giving up 32 bit plugins as it is a 64 bit browser (all addons like adblock and noscript are fine and so are flash, java, and silverlight) but it was worth it for the extra speed.

        You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

        by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:06:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks, I've been stagnant in trying more browsers (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Throw The Bums Out

          the past few years, so will give Waterfox a test.

          "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

          by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:13:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Note that Waterfox will use your existing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            wader

            Firefox profile so be sure you don't have both Waterfox and Firefox running at the same time.  Oh, and you will need to install 64 bit flash and silverlight (silverlight is only necessary if you want Netflix and such).  Also be sure to make YouTube use html5 when possible as that is much faster than flash.

            You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

            by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:26:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yeah, I've made the HTML5 switch, (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Throw The Bums Out

              but not sure how I'll live without my extensive session and tab management plugins.

              Still, it's worth a tryout.

              "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

              by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:30:22 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Are they addons/extensions or plugins? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                wader

                Because extensions such as  noscript and adblock and so on will work just fine.  Hint: if you installed them through addons.mozilla.org then they are not plugins.  By plugins I mean things like Shockwave, Acrobat Reader, Realplayer, and so on which are actually dll files.

                You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

                by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:59:23 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You are correct, I should have been more (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Throw The Bums Out

                  accurate in terminology.

                  These are extensions and they work fine with WaterFox.  I just started it up, updated my Flash player, Silverlight installation was already compatible, and it is using all the same settings + data as my 32-bit Firefox installation quite seamlessly (i.e., no obvious breakage).

                  It will be interesting to play with this as a long-term 32-bit Firefox replacement, much thanks for the reference.

                  "So, please stay where you are. Don't move and don't panic. Don't take off your shoes! Jobs is on the way."

                  by wader on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:05:21 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

        •  It supports Flash, Java, and Silverlight? (0+ / 0-)

          That's three good reasons to avoid it, right there.

          I kid. :)

          La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

          by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:39:26 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  False logic (0+ / 0-)
      If we're going to start holding employers accountable for the personal political donations of their employees
      It's holding the company accountable for the personal political donations of an employee who has been promoted to CEO.

      The equivalent, on the other side, would be if conservatives wanted to boycott a company with an employee who had just been made CEO, who had, in the past, made contributions to some cause they don't like. Say, Planned Parenthood.

      And the answer is, although I wouldn't support it, they would be perfectly within their rights to boycott.

      Your conclusion:

      we must also support any employer who punishes/fires every employee who donates to a Democratic candidate or progressive ballot initiative.
      Is a complete non sequitur.

      La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

      by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:30:07 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  As an open source browser (12+ / 0-)

    Firefox is the work of more than the CEO.  Supporting Firefox still supports the open source community, which is down with gay rights.  So I really don't see a reason to avoid Firefox.

    Chrome is a privacy nightmare.  It litters your boot volume with automatic updaters that constantly phone home.  I find that more offensive than Firefox having a few bigots in their organization, like any other organization.  I'd bet you can even find bigots working at Apple, which is probably more supportive of gay rights than any other large corporation in existence.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:47:21 AM PDT

    •  However Srware's Iron is not if you want (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil

      a Chromium/Chrome based browser.  I personally use both that and Waterfox and both work fine though Waterfox is faster (did you know that Firefox is still compiled for the original Pentium?  no wonder it is fairly slow).

      You have watched Faux News, now lose 2d10 SAN.

      by Throw The Bums Out on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:08:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Zince Firefox constantly crashes Flash (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

    My migration to Chrome should now be a given.

    Libertarianism is just Fascism with a facelift. Scratch the surface of Libertarianism and you will find the notion that corporations should rule supreme, just as it was with Fascism..

    by Walt starr on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:51:02 AM PDT

    •  I run Firefox Nightly which is the cutting edge of (0+ / 0-)

      the code base, updating every night. I also installed the flash beta version in the browser and I have had few problems.  Chrome, on the other hand opens up so many processes on start that the system bogs down for a bit.  I only use Chrome when the changes to Nightly have made it useless for the day, which happens from time to time since it is considered alpha or even pre-alpha software.  

      The biggest gains have come from forcing Youtube to use html5 when available which uses the graphics card to render video without barely even an increase in cpu usage and using a script to force Youtube to use hardware acceleration for all video, again using the video card and freeing up other system resources.

  •  Eich also supports far-right anti-gay GOP Rep. (20+ / 0-)

    According to FEC records, from 2008 to 2010, Eich gave multiple donations totaling $2100 to CA-4 Representative Tom McClintock.

    McClintock received a 100% rating from the American Conservative Union. He's as anti-gay as they come, and was among the group of GOPers last June who, after the DOMA overturn was handed down by the Supreme Court, vowed to pass a Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage nationwide.

    McClintock is also on record as opposing any and all gay rights protections and hate crimes laws. And he voted against the Violence Against Women Act.

    He's against the minimum wage, immigration reform, bilingual education, and of course wants to repeal Obamacare. If it's a far-right conservative position, McClintock is there.

    Yet Brendan Eich liked McClintock well enough to donate not just once, but many times, to the tune of several hundred bucks every few months.

    In this context, a thousand bucks in favor of Prop H8 comes as no surprise...

    "Don't ride in anything with a Capissen 38 engine. They fall right out of the sky." -- Kaywinnit Lee Frye

    by Technowitch on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 10:57:32 AM PDT

  •  Good. (4+ / 0-)

    Call the haters out. Tell us who they are so we can withhold our money from them.

    He is certainly entitled to his opinion, but when he provides materiel support to the enemy, he's seen the last dollar from me. If Mozilla wants to get in my good graces, they can dump the hater. Or do without my $. Their choice. Just like I wouldn't shop at Hobby Lobby, eat at Chik-fil-A, or donate to the GOP...

    The better I know people, the more I like my dog.

    by Thinking Fella on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:00:32 AM PDT

    •  Where does that stop? (0+ / 0-)

      Seriously - this wasn't a major problem for anyone until last month.  Eich co-founded Mozilla, served as CTO and was a member of the Board of Directors, even as he made his Prop 8 donation...but it apparently wasn't important until he was made CEO.

      So, there's one guy who owns every McDonald's franchise within a 50-mile radius of me; if I find out that he donated money to Republicans (say, McConnell or Paul), shall I call for a McBoycott - but only in my area?

      Does the quest for purity require me to do an FEC check on my local car dealers before purchasing a car?  What about my public high school's principal and faculty?

      Yeesh. This is a hole with no bottom.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 02:43:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bullshit (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tonedevil, 3rock

        No one knew any of this before last month. I've been programming in Javascript since it debuted in Netscape, I've interacted with Eich on Twitter (I asked him on which of the famous 10 days he screwed up this -- his answer, "Day one!"), and I've followed the mailing list for the next version of Javascript. But I never had any idea of his political opinions.

        Now, you can argue that, if he could do all that stuff in spite of poisonous politics, it shouldn't be a problem.

        But to argue that somehow people are off base because they're only getting upset about it now, when they only found out about it now, that's like if you'd been putting poison in my well for years, and when I found out I got mad, and you said, "Why are you getting mad at me all of a sudden now, when I've been poisoning you for years?"

        La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

        by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:49:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It was known years ago... (0+ / 0-)

          ...as this recent article by a queer employee of Mozilla makes clear.

          The LA Times published it around 2008, after the donations were made public.

          It was discussed within the Mozilla community two years ago; here's one example of that discussion.

          Now, it's absolutely true that more folks have learned about it in the short time since Eich was named CEO, but to suggest that the information--and the debate--haven't been out there is inaccurate at best.

          I'll leave you with the words of another LGBT Mozillan:

          Mozilla has a vocal LBGT community. Brendan could not derail us if he wanted to. I don't think that he does want to because he's focused on the real mission: the free Web. He's working with us, I, for one, am willing to set aside my trepidation and work with him, too.

          I say to the larger community calling for the ouster of Brendan Eich, “please don't succumb to the knee jerk reaction.” I did at first, but with some thought, I realize that we need to focus on the future not exact retribution for the past.

          Sadly, that blog entry ends with:
          I've disallowed comments to this blog posting due to death threats.

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 06:55:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I switched to Google Chrome the moment I found out (4+ / 0-)

    And I'd used Firefox as my browser for years.

    This isn't freedom. This is fear - Captain America

    by Ellid on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:04:37 AM PDT

  •  totally conflicted. firefox is an open source (6+ / 0-)

    browser which i prefer because everyone has a hand in it. Even bigots. At the same time, I am a huge supporter of equality. Given that this asshole donated his own personal money to Prop8 doesn't make a difference to me in terms of willingness to support his company. The Koch brothers donate millions of their own money (and their foundations money) to candidates, issues, and policies that i simply don't agree with. Therefore, i don't buy their products. I'm going to have to do some soul searching on this. Is a dollar to far? A $100; a $1000; a million? My heart says a dollar is to far. My head says this is an open community that promotes all comers to participate. They will certainly not be getting any donations from me as long as he is ceo but that doesn't change the fact that he worked there this whole time and i didn't care. Does an individual have a right to participate in a democracy without getting penalized in his/her job for his/her views? Of course not. But as a consumer, i have the right, no the obligation to not support those views by boycotting the company's product. Shit....I'm going to have to use safari....

    Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry)

    by yawnimawke on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:06:05 AM PDT

    •  Well, consider that... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      yawnimawke

      since Eich is a co-founder of Mozilla, was CTO and sat on the Board of Directors before being named CEO, he had a role in the company's decision to offer benefits to same-sex spouses AND publicly endorse LGBT equality.

      One of the less-quoted sentences in the Guardian article is:

      Eich defined inclusiveness at Mozilla as leaving political issues upon which coders or community members might disagree out of the office.
      Given that he made a political contribution to Prop 8 supporters while the company he led and directed offered benefits to same-sex spouses, I think we should consider whether Mozilla is implementing their definition of "inclusiveness." At first glance, I would say that they are.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 03:37:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Any evidence how he voted on those issues (0+ / 0-)

        when he was on the board?

        La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

        by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:52:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  i read that too. I ended up posting on his blog (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon

        asking him to reconsider his advancement to ceo. In light of the controversy, he is now the public face of Mozilla and with that comes the added attention to his political and social positions even though they have nothing to do with the company or foundation itself. Considering that Mozilla is his creation, I asked if this position was worth putting the company in jeopardy. And while one should not be penalized at work for their beliefs, his particular position, as ceo, was more than just a "job". Before i flat out uninstall Firefox and throw away the many years I myself have supported mozilla, I want to see if the continued scrutiny and public fallout gives him a change of heart regarding the title of ceo.  I don't think it is worth the loss of what i think is one of the bright spots on the web. And I certainly hope he does not think it is worth it. He has to, at some point, put the good of the company before himself.

        As an aside, I have been reading about this for a few days and after actually reading the entire Guardian article did i come away with the sound knowledge that this man will not put his personal beliefs ahead of what is good for the company (i.e. Mozilla's acknowledgement of LGBT equality and same sex spousal benefits) however not everyone has nor will they read the article. The smoke is there and the fire is starting to ignite. Right or wrong, people will not care that the company has this in their employee handbook. They will only care that the face of Mozilla is a bigot.

        Earth: Mostly harmless ~ The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (revised entry)

        by yawnimawke on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 05:07:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I have very serious reservations... (6+ / 0-)

    ... about someone's personal political affiliations and actions  having a bearing on their hiring and pushing that to become "normal".  If Eich had done something in his capacity at Mozilla, that would be absolutely different.

    I'm certain that if this practice were widespread it would be a net losing situation for LGBT and other issues.  

    "Oh, so you supported a union friendly candidate/issue in the past?  Sorry, we're not going to hire you."

    Yikes...

  •  Sounds a bit like a Salem witch hunt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VirginiaJeff, Just Bob

    It would be one thing if the company started enacting anti-gay policies, but where does this kind of thing end?  Are we going to have sets of business operations based on political affiliations of the CEO's?  Based on the board members?  Officers?  Key employees?

    I get the good intentions behind rewarding political allies and punishing those with unpopular views, but who's on top - so to speak - changes over time and a popular view today could be tomorrow's pariah.

    It's a murky issue and it doesn't seem like it's being treated with any nuance.

    •  If the political actives of a CEO (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Dem Beans, VirginiaJeff, koNko, Tonedevil

      negatively effect the operations of the organization, it becomes a valid concern.  

      •  In a political or quasi-political organization (0+ / 0-)

        I could see that; it would be absurd if Planned Parenthood couldn't release someone if they found out that the individual supported anti-choice organizations.  But for a generic business organization?  I don't see the connection.

        I'm open to the argument, but it just sounds like it's a dangerous area to get into.  

        •  In the first place (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          catwho, burlydee

          people do not have employment protection for political views on the same basis as race, gender, etc. It is essentially a political decision for an organization in terms of impact on their image and reputation. Most business organizations have to be sensitive to public opinion.

          •  So what? (0+ / 0-)

            Not to be flip, but the fact that there aren't workplace protections for political views is probably because employers have generally learned that it's a dumb idea to hire or fire people based on their political views.  Ostensibly, they want the best person for the job.  At the CEO level, there are probably all kinds of factors that come into play and a little latitude is a good thing.

            But if we're going to create a climate where employers feel compelled to start hiring or firing based on an employee's political views, I'm simply stating - whatever the laws are now - that it's a problematic area.

          •  And most businesses don't care what you believe (4+ / 0-)

            They can fire you for speaking out in such a way that represents the company or its industry poorly, but that's why anonymity online is critical for some of us.  I work for a timber company and I don't use my real name, or its real name, on this website or any other one where politics is discussed because it's my view, and where I work has little to do with it.

            Once a name and a brand become publicly attached to someone's political views, it becomes different, unfortunately.  

            Also, if board members are jumping ship, it's a sign there is possibly more going on than just a single donation here.

            The Cake is a lie. In Pie there is Truth. ~ Fordmandalay

            by catwho on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:45:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The board members left for a different reason. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              catwho

              As the Wall Street Journal reported:

              The three board members who resigned sought a CEO from outside Mozilla with experience in the mobile industry who could help expand the organization’s Firefox OS mobile-operating system and balance the skills of co-founders Eich and Baker, the people familiar with the situation said.
              In other words, they wanted a CEO from outside the company (not an unusual preference), didn't get their way, and resigned.

              Given that I found this information with a 30-second web search, one wonders why so many people are leaving this little tidbit out of their reporting/writing.

              The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

              by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 03:43:34 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Not at all (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Richard Lyon

      CEO that serves at the pleasure of the Board, not company owner.

      If it was his money, he could be as publicly offensive as he wished but now he's playing with other people's money.

      And as a non-profit, he puts the organization in a precarious position in doing so.

      Fiduciary Duty 101, Bro.

      No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

      by koNko on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 12:35:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I haver an idea of how to solve the problem (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dconrad

    Change your fucking mind.  

    Streichholzschächtelchen

    by otto on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:26:48 AM PDT

  •  Been using Chrome for over a year now anyway (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    travelerxxx, The Red Pen, Tonedevil

    btw, it's kinda funny how Mozilla makes the overwhelming amount of their money.

    90% of Mozilla's money comes from Google itself.

    Pretty interesting considering that Google directly competes with Mozilla in the browser space (Chrome vs. Firefox).  Google has taken a similar stance re: Microsoft software on Macs.

    Microsoft will try, try, and try again (and then try one final time) to get you to purchase a PC.  But they know that some people, no matter how much advertising and pitches they receive, will always be Mac people.  This is why you see Microsoft Office for Mac.

    Same thing goes for browser wars.  Google wants you to use Chrome, but if you refuse, the next best thing is to have whatever browser you do use default Google for search.

    And this is what Firefox does, and it's how they make hundreds of millions of dollars per year.

    "Give me a lever long enough... and I shall move the world." - Archimedes

    by mconvente on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 11:28:17 AM PDT

  •  Resignation is inevitable (7+ / 0-)

    Because, at some point, he's taking down a company and destroying the work of some people who probably don't deserve it, and that's fundamentally irresponsible and the Board will be forced to fire him if he refuses to resign.

    Can't say I'm a big fan of Firefox, but there has got to be some pissed-off employees there, including some LBGTs.

    Dude, get it over with. Resign.

    No one is coming to save us, the future is in our hands.

    by koNko on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 12:14:11 PM PDT

  •  Meaning (0+ / 0-)

    now I have to switch browsers? I hate change.

    "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."........ "The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little." (yeah, same guy.)

    by sidnora on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 12:38:30 PM PDT

  •  I switched to Firefox because of Dkos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    3rock

    Mac/Safari just didn't make all the features available. Sometimes I like to rec a diary and Safari wouldn't let me.
    Does anyone know if Opera or Chrome are solid for the Mac?


    Every time my iPhone battery gets down to 47%, I think of Mitt Romney.

    by bobinson on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 12:59:36 PM PDT

  •  It's how IDEAS (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil

        get BLOCKED.
        Meg Whitman destroyed the ebay community.
        Eich will destroy Mozilla.
        The solution is for all of the Mozilla employees to have a vote on the ? "Will Bredan Eich as CEO stifle creative input, thereby hindering the goal of Mozilla?" If yes, then a NEW CEO is in order.
        The telling part to me is the bravado he confesses as he's the only and best one. Guy, there are a ton of young people waiting in the wings that CAN DO the JOB better because they do not BLOCK equal ideas to a problem.

    March AGAINST monsatanOHagentorange 3/25/13 a time warp

    by 3rock on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:12:54 PM PDT

    •  "Eich will destroy Mozilla"? (0+ / 0-)

      You do realize that he is a CO-FOUNDER of Mozilla, right?

      He's been on the leadership team since the beginning - including when they implemented benefits for domestic partners, adopted an explicitly welcoming personnel policy, and all the rest.

      Read this Mozilla statement and the articles to which it links.

      Seriously, folks, Mozilla is a company that offers benefits to domestic partners as well as same-sex spouses, even in states where such is not required by law...so they're spending thousands in corporate money to provide those benefits...and folks are now arguing that they should be boycotted because of what the CEO did with $1000 of his personal money.

      The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

      by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 03:59:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The gig is up (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Richard Lyon

          You can't quite wrap your mind around the absurdity of Mozilla being for equal access to the internet but have a boss who does not believe in "personal" equality.
           You don't understand what it is like to communicate to someone who sees you as a lessor human being therefore your ideas are LESS relevant or MORE the norm, because a LOT of Gay people are brilliant, for decades, to be ripped off.
           What happens is you LEARN NOT, to present your ideas to bigots, no matter how good their intentions.
           I use Firefox, I love the people and the incredible idea behind Mozilla. I now see it as what it is. A scam. The co-founder after ripping off all you hippies will take it "PRIVATE."
           Been there, seen that.
           I'm not giving up on Mozilla. I'll wait to see if the employees can take control.
           Otherwise start a NEW god damned company with the YOUNGER GENS reality to this future WE ALL face. I.e the browser of the future.
           I thought, donates to RW nutcases another Meg at a campaign stop, cutting her, famous spot, chili hot dog with plastic utensils but not forgetting to extend her "pinkie."

        March AGAINST monsatanOHagentorange 3/25/13 a time warp

        by 3rock on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 05:32:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You might find this interesting... (0+ / 0-)

          ...it's an article written by a queer employee of Mozilla. Here's an excerpt:

          Several of my colleagues have called for Brendan’s resignation. I have not done so, despite my strong feelings on the issue, in large part because of my conviction that the open internet is not and cannot be a progressive movement or a liberal movement or even a libertarian movement. In the climate-change fiasco here in the US, we’ve seen what happens with a globally important issue becomes identified with a single political point of view. We can’t let that happen here: the open internet is not more important than gay rights or any number of other progressive causes, but it should and must be a broader movement. The moment we let “open internet” become synonymous with progressive causes—inside or outside Mozilla—its many conservative supporters will be forced into an impossible position.
          The writer closes with this:
          Beyond that I guess I only have one more thing to say, which is to Brendan, who is doubtless also having one of the most challenging weeks of his professional life.

          Brendan, I grew up in a very conservative religious home and many of the people I love the most can still be described as very religious and very conservative. I think your views on this issue are wrong, and that your actions have done harm, but I can no more caricature you as a terrible person driven by homophobia and hatred than I can break off relations with my cherished family members because they take actions similar to yours.

          If you stay on as CEO, I look forward to seeing you act with the clear commitment to equality and inclusiveness in the workplace that your posts have affirmed.

          And more personally, whatever it is that makes you feel that the institution of marriage is threatened by the desire for equal legal rights of people like me, I hope that sense of threat eventually lessens. I don’t wish this for myself—the tide of our culture is already turning and I do believe that history is bending toward justice. I hope it for you and for your family, sincerely and with love.

          Now I’m going to get to work.

          Read the full article; it gives a perspective from inside Mozilla that none of us can otherwise know.

          For other comments from those much closer than we, there's Jason Duell's Twitter conversation (he's a self-described "Queer Mozillan"), as well as Benjamin Kasavan's draft essay on the question (which includes links to yet more discussion and comment from Mozillans).

          The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

          by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 06:21:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Mozilla Foundation Doesn't Rely on Public (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    The Red Pen

    Contributions ...

    It is funded by its competitors, who keep it alive as a foil to anti-trust lawsuits.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:33:19 PM PDT

  •  did the CEO donate b/c he dislikes teh gays or (0+ / 0-)

    was it that whole libertarian "lets-not-give-any-groups-special-treatment" thing?  same reason Rand Paul is against the ADA (Rand Paul: brave enough to stand up against those who can't)

    doesn't make it better, just tryin' to figure out where the guy is coming from.  (whether he's just misguided as opposed to hateful & misguided).

    elipsii: helping the masses express aposiopesis for...

    by bnasley on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 01:50:40 PM PDT

  •  I wish I knew how to quit you, Mozilla! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Lyon

    nmt

  •  And here I thought I only had a problem with him (0+ / 0-)

    for screwing up lexical scope and this in Javascript.

    La majestueuse égalité des lois, qui interdit au riche comme au pauvre de coucher sous les ponts, de mendier dans les rues, et de voler du pain.

    by dconrad on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 03:31:10 PM PDT

  •  So, let's sum up the discussion so far. (0+ / 0-)

    a) Mozilla is an LGBT-welcoming employer.

    b) Mozilla offers full benefits to both domestic partners and same-sex spouses across the US, even in those states where such is not required by law. It has been doing so for several years, well before the current controversy arose.

    c) Thus, Mozilla is putting thousands of dollars in corporate money into LGBT equality every year, through the benefits it offers employees and their partners/spouses.

    d) Eich has been part of the senior leadership team at Mozilla since its inception; he's a co-founder, served as CTO and sat on the Board of Directors before being hired as CEO.

    e) Thus, Eich has been involved in the decision-making process throughout Mozilla's history, including the decisions described in (a), (b) and (c) above.

    BUT...

    f) Six years ago, Eich made a $1000 donation to supporters of Prop 8. This donation came from his personal monies, not corporate funds.

    Many folks are arguing that point (f) negates the entirety of points (a) through (e), and that Mozilla should suffer as a result, unless/until they fire Eich.

    The word "parent" is supposed to be a VERB, people...

    by wesmorgan1 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:09:53 PM PDT

  •  Community (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Richard Lyon, Tonedevil, dconrad, 3rock

    It's one thing for a community like Mozilla to contain bigots. Communities are like that.

    It's another for a community to be led by a bigot. Executive powers are so unaccountable, such a subtle medium for leadership, that a CEO of a community cannot represent something in their "personal life" that is inconsistent with the community's values. That is in fact precisely what most CEOs are chosen for, among a pool vetted for their competence.

    Regardless of how Eich might have hidden his bigotry until now, the staff and community - both developers and users - of Mozilla and its products now know the CEO is a bigot. And that the board is OK with that. Any grey area for bigotry is now tacitly endorsed.

    Eich doesn't admit to realizing that. Which is the biggest reason for him to go. The board isn't acting on that. Which is the biggest reason not to trust the board or its products.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:26:44 PM PDT

  •  Opera Is a Good Replacement (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tonedevil, dconrad, 3rock

    Opera is a browser that's been around a long time, runs on you platform, has a reputation for speed, and I don't know of any political problems its developer corp presents.

    But I think it's better to just pressure Mozilla Foundation to ditch Eich. Don't throw out the baby fox with the bigot bathwater.

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Wed Apr 02, 2014 at 04:45:07 PM PDT

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