Skip to main content

Here's a clue for Jonah Goldberg -- the US does not have a monopoly on what is true and good in the world. Here's another -- Obama headed off the crisis in Ukraine for the moment through the use of diplomacy; therefore, there was no need to send lethal aid to Ukraine.

It is very appropriate to make use of the whale during Good Friday weekend. Goldberg is trapped in a whale of American exceptionalism that blinds him to some basic facts about the matter. First of all, the US has attempted around 80 coups since 1953, many of democratically elected governments. You can argue with Davies' number or his examples, but what is not a matter for debate is that this government has an entire culture built around regime change.

It is interesting that a Republican like Goldberg is so trapped in the prison of the military industrial complex that he would rather have gays than Putin.

I believe that Putin’s adventures in Russia’s “near abroad” are a mistake. Indeed, they are part of a whole tapestry of wrongheadedness. It’s also bad for the Kremlin to crush dissent, censor the news, and hobble the economy by handing it over to oligarchs and a kleptocratic bureaucracy. Putin’s scapegoating and demonizing of gays isn’t only morally wrong, it’s not in Russia’s long-term interests either. That Putin prefers to use his oil and gas assets as a political weapon abroad and an excuse not to diversify his economy at home has me googling the Russian word for “boneheaded.”
Goldberg's problem with Putin is that he allegedly can't be reasoned with. But he forgets the lessons of history. The Russians wondered why Kennedy was so psychotic and unable to be reasoned with when they put missiles in Cuba. We were doing the exact same thing in Ukraine, when we tried to facilitate a coup and possibly put missiles in that country. It doesn't matter who would have been in charge in Russia; any leader would have behaved like a bear at an obvious threat to their country's existence. Russia's annexation of Crimea was a breach of the 1994 treaty that pledged to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. But what Goldberg and many other people forget is that the US was in breach of the same treaty when Nuland facilitated the coup against Yanukovych in the first place. And Goldberg also forgets that Putin can be reasoned with; for instance, the deal that he brokered to head off US air strikes against Syria is working; 75% of the chemical weapons have now been destroyed.

Goldberg also inconveniently forgets that the new government in Ukraine includes members of the far right, Neo-Nazis, and ultranationalists. While the government has cracked down on them to some degree, they are still there. While the coalition that overthrew Yanukovych was broadbased and such people are in the minority, they still exert a disproportionate degree of influence in the new government. It is not some fable invented by RT; it's been documented here, here, and here among other places. The far right in Ukraine has taken over top posts in that government. Victoria Nuland's facilitation of the coup there not only raised a specter of World War II for Russia (who lost 19 million to that conflict), it dishonors the sacrifices that we made as a whole nation to rid the world of fascism and Nazism.

Goldberg then lectures Obama on allegedly being weak and spineless for the fact that the sanctions that he imposed were token in nature. But he misses the point again. Two wrongs don't make a right and Nuland's meddling in Ukraine's sovereignty did not justify Putin's snatching away of Crimea. But there are already serious economic consequences that are being suffered by Russia for their move. Billions of dollars have fled from the country, an economic boycott of Russian goods has been organized and has spread to Eastern Europe, and Putin is now nostalgic for normal relations with the West. Obama didn't need to do more. But what he does need to do is fire people like Nuland whose life mission is to create chaos in other countries like her other Neocon cronies and renounce regime change as a tool of American policy and renounce spying on foreign allies.

He concludes:

I entirely understand that Americans are war-weary, and for good reason. But has it really gotten to the point where the U.S. military now defines “chest-thumping” as unleashing the socks of war?
It is really interesting to see Goldberg dictating to Russia in the same manner that Nuland was dictating to Ukraine. When she gave her notorious speech in December bragging about the $5 billion that we invested in Ukraine since 1991 and saying that union with the EU was the only way forward for them, it was her tone of voice which was the most disturbing. The haughty imperious tone that she used has no place in international diplomacy. Fortunately, the real diplomats on all sides were able to put their heads together and reach a deal that seems to be holding for the moment.
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags


More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (12+ / 0-)

    "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

    by Eternal Hope on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 08:50:59 AM PDT

  •  "Тупоголовый" = Jonah Goldberg /nt (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, ruleoflaw

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "I’m not the strapping young Muslim socialist that I used to be" - Barack Obama 04/27/2013 (@eState4Column5).

    by annieli on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 08:53:17 AM PDT

  •  so is Jonah willing to hump a ruck (5+ / 0-)

    and put his rear end on the line?  I mean if we do intend to put boots on the ground in other parts of the world, I think a nice rule of engagement would be that all those journalists champing at the bit for our guys to go into harm's way to have to lead the way, say in the front line, to show that they are really really invested in the military action

    •  Russia did not sign on to the Ottawa Treaty (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, ruleoflaw, Lepanto, gfv6800

      And there are still large minefields erected around it's borders. Some are old, dating from the end of WWII and part of the Defence in Depth doctrine the Soviets used to defeat Blitzkrieg,

      Some are newer, dating to just after the break up of Russia and the rise of some quite rabid forms of Russophobia in their near abroad, and a few are probably much more recent.

      Perhaps the 101st Fighting Keyboarders would be useful to the US Military as Mine Clearing and UXO specialists?

  •  I depise Goldberg (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    but I'm really getting tired of your putting forth countless speculations without any evidence to support them.

    I don't have time, right now to debunk this point by point, but it would be good practice for you to support your arguments with facts.

    For example, what evidence do you have that the US ever planned to station missiles in Ukraine? Lets see what you got.

    Here's my take on it - the revolution will not be blogged, it has to be slogged. - Deoliver47

    by OIL GUY on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 09:46:28 AM PDT

    •  We would if we had the chance. (5+ / 0-)

      This is all part of the US plan to surround Russia and China with missiles. We tried to put a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe allegedly for stopping Iranian missiles when they don't even have nukes and are not even planning to build them.

      In 1964, the year Dr Strangelove was made, "the missile gap" was the false flag. To build more and bigger nuclear weapons and pursue an undeclared policy of domination, President John F Kennedy approved the CIA's propaganda that the Soviet Union was well ahead of the US in the production of intercontinental ballistic missiles. This filled front pages as the "Russian threat". In fact, the Americans were so far ahead in production of the missiles, the Russians never approached them. The cold war was based largely on this lie.

      Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the US has ringed Russia with military bases, nuclear warplanes and missiles as part of its Nato enlargement project. Reneging on the Reagan administration's promise to the Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990 that Nato would not expand "one inch to the east", Nato has all but taken over eastern Europe. In the former Soviet Caucasus, Nato's military build-up is the most extensive since the second world war.

      In February, the US mounted one of its proxy "colour" coups against the elected government of Ukraine; the shock troops were fascists. For the first time since 1945, a pro-Nazi, openly antisemitic party controls key areas of state power in a European capital. No western European leader has condemned this revival of fascism on the border of Russia. Some 30 million Russians died in the invasion of their country by Hitler's Nazis, who were supported by the infamous Ukrainian Insurgent Army (the UPA) which was responsible for numerous Jewish and Polish massacres. The Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists, of which the UPA was the military wing, inspires today's Svoboda party.

      This is common knowledge that this is our plan. If we saw an opportunity to put troops or missiles in Ukraine, we would take it. Ukraine membership in NATO has been talked about since 2008, and both candidates were on board with it. It wouldn't have been immediate, but that was a very real objective down the road.

      "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression." - W.E.B. Du Bois Be informed. Fight the Police State.

      by Eternal Hope on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:19:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Re "tired of your putting forth countless (5+ / 0-)


      1) And I wonder why 3 months has gone by with NO ONE in the US News Media , Congress, or the Democratic Party asking Victoria Nuland to explain WHY we are meddling in Ukraine on Russia's border.

      2) WHY has the US News Media refused to ask Dick Cheney and George Bush why they were pushing for Ukraine to be added to NATO at the 2008 Bucharest NATO Summit.?

      Why have we spent $Billions in a bankrupt Ukraine 4500 miles from the USA?  What value does it have other than as a base from which to attack Russia?

      3) It is the inexplicable SILENCE of Washington --and Washington's defenders here -- that is encouraging the speculation.   Because that monolithic wall of ridiculous propaganda looks a lot like the collegial deceit we saw in the runup to the invasion of Iraq.

      4) Eternal Hope is not dragging us into another Cold War.  

      I wonder why you don't challenge the "countless speculations without any evidence to support them" re the Russian threat that are being made by those who are promoting another unnecessary war.

  •  It's interesting watching the neocons and the (9+ / 0-)

    democratic party on the same page. You can see it pretty clearly here with all the Putin hate, the accusations against those of us against imperialism as "Putin lovers", etc.  Same as it was with Libya and Syria when people against those imperialist actions were accused of being Assad apologists or Gaddafi lovers.  

    "Fragmented and confused, we have no plan to combat any of this, but are looking to be saved by the very architects of our ruination."

    by BigAlinWashSt on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:09:00 AM PDT

    •  neo-cons, neo-libs (8+ / 0-)

      neo-branches of the same old not-so-neo-tree.

      And those who can't see the common root are just not looking (or have their own investment in denial).

      The Ukraine situation is a little more "interesting" than most because it's a bit harder to figure out what's in it for the masters of greed and entitlement.

      Fake Left, Drive Right . . . not my idea of a Democrat . . .

      by Deward Hastings on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 11:19:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Pretty much (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        native, bmastiff

        Cheap resources. The USSR did not do a very good job of finding and exploiting their resources, lacking the technology and need,

        The Eastern Post Soviet Governments did not do a good job either, often letting resource sectors collapse for lack of parts, investment, training and modernization.

        One of the big steel plants east of Dotynsk, was bought by a Japanese Conglomerate in the early 2000's, and they get the same steel output from the plant, with 1/4 of the workers, and little modernization. They also get to pay them half the wage they made when the factory was State Owned, and of course, the inflation means those workers take home is 1/4 what they used to make.

        The Conglomerate had plans to modernize, but due to the crisis, have been shelved for now. The modernization project would have improved quality, throughput, safety, and reduced emissions, but it would also see the workforce reduced by half again.

        To sum up, First World Resources, tariff free for the EU, with African rate rents for the resources and Sinopec Special Economic Zone wages and working conditions for the workforce.

        Right now, a Western Steel Company will be lucky to gross 17% on product. When the EU gates are down, and the modernization is complete, the Japanese Consortium should gross well over 50% profit margin, at current prices.

        If they flood the EU market with cheap steel, they can collapse a lot of their competition and bust a lot of the Heavy Industry EU Unions.

    •  and there are those liberals like me (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eternal Hope, snazzzybird, bmastiff

      Who are suspicious of taking sides in complex internal fighting.  In the US, we tend to trace our divisions back to the Civil War. 150 years.  In Eastern Europe tensions go back to the 1500s and the Ottoman Empire.  In the Middle East the divisions trace to antiquity. No easy answers.  The US has been on the right side of history,  but we have also on occasion propped up the wrong side. We are war weary because there is an unending parade of wrong in this world and the US cannot fix it.

  •  Doughy pantload (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eternal Hope, snazzzybird, ruleoflaw

    I want 1 less Tiny Coffin, Why Don't You? Support The President's Gun Violence Plan.

    by JML9999 on Sat Apr 19, 2014 at 10:24:04 AM PDT

  •  How fondly I remember all the same (6+ / 0-)

    …chickenhawks squawking about the Red Line in Syria and crying for bombing raids --only to find out via Seymour Hersh’s investigative report that the Sarin gas attack in Syria was a false flag event arranged by NATO member Turkey in order to justify a US military attack on Syria.

    Toppling governments and fomenting war around the world is what the US does for a living -- with the help of Blackwater, in the case of the Ukraine.

    But when it comes to sanctions -- the entire thing is kabuki on all sides. Besides, Russia has a much bigger stick. It can sell oil for Euros and Rubles instead of Dollars -- which it would do if sanctions were imposed on Russia's use of SWIFT -- and the Petro-Dollar would immediately end, collapsing the US economy.

    •  Given the historic successes (4+ / 0-)

      Of the Alphabet Agencies, it seems really that Coups are they can do.

      Predictable international events, like the Fall of the Berlin Wall, collapse of the Soviet Union, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait, Oklahoma City, 9/11, Georgian Invasion of South Ossetia, the completely predictable Russian response to a coup in the Ukraine,

      It all catches them utterly unaware, almost as if they don't even read the regional news. Even the FBI catches Foreign Spies pretty much by accident.

      It really does suggest that their core missions are to foster coups, spy on law abiding Americans, and infiltrate spies and agents provocateurs into civil dissent groups.

      •  The US rogue war machine continues apace. (4+ / 0-)

        …setting up for a continent-wide war across Africa. That's where the big money and fomented atrocities can be found.

        The US military is indeed pivoting to Africa.

        It now averages far more than a mission a day on the continent, conducting operations with almost every African military force, in almost every African country, while building or building up camps, compounds, and "contingency security locations." The US has taken an active role in wars from Libya to the Central African Republic, sent special ops forces into countries from Somalia to South Sudan, conducted airstrikes and abduction missions, even put boots on the ground in countries where it pledged it would not.

        "We have shifted from our original intent of being a more congenial combatant command to an actual war-fighting combatant command," AFRICOM's Rick Cook explained to the audience of big-money defense contractors. He was unequivocal: the US has been "at war" on the continent for the last two and half years.

        It remains to be seen when AFRICOM will pass this news on to the American public.
        •  Africa, (0+ / 0-)

          Has always been an unexploited enough continent.

          In the colonial era, the diseases kept the resources in the ground, in the post Colonial era, the kleptocracy, corruption and coups kept most of the resources in the ground,

          So plan C to get all of that stuff that's ours, out from under their ground.

          The people there though, well you can't say they weren't exploited enough.

        •  But we're doing it all for their own good... (0+ / 0-)
          Korea is a divided country. Vietnam is Communist. Afghanistan is a corrupt murderous frontier that supplies the great part of the world's heroin. Iraq is a dangerous anarchy. Libya is a dangerous anarchy. Syria is in a cataclysmic civil war. Egypt is an economic basket case. Ukraine is an economic basket case.

          The United States is like the resident who was attempting to assist a senior surgeon in the operating room. At last, the surgeon turned to him and said, "Son, if you're ever in the woods and you see me rasslin' a bear, help the bear."

          William Herschel at Sic Semper Tyrannus

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site