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Originally published in Tikkun Daily

During a closed door meeting on Friday with influential world leaders, U.S. Secretary of State, John Kerry, warned that Israel is in danger of becoming an "apartheid state" if the two-state solution is not achieved.

Talking with leaders at the Trilateral Commission on Friday, Kerry said:

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state...Once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two-state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to.”
While President Obama rejected using the word to describe Israel's occupation of the Palestinians, it's notable that State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki did not condemn Kerry's sentiments, explaining that the Secretary of State was simply expressing an opinion shared my many: that the two-state solution is the only way for Israel to exist as a Jewish state.

However, and perhaps predictably, Bill Kristol's right-wing group, the Emergency Committee for Israel, has called for Kerry to be axed for using the term:

Secretary Kerry's musings on the Jewish state's dire future have become a regular feature of his public remarks. His latest prediction follows other statements in recent months that have in effect threatened Israel -- never the Palestinians -- with a list of disasters should his diplomatic efforts fail: violence, isolation, delegitimization, boycotts -- and now "apartheid."

It is no longer enough for the White House to clean up after the messes John Kerry has made. It is time for John Kerry to step down as Secretary of State, or for President Obama to fire him. And it would go a long way toward repairing the damage Kerry has done if his predecessor as Secretary of State, who is the likely Democratic Party nominee for president, explained why this kind of rhetoric had no place in her State Department and why it will have no place in her presidential campaign.

Josh Rogin, who broke the Kerry story for The Daily Beast, noted that the 1998 Rome Statute defines "apartheid" in part as "inhumane acts… committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime." It's perhaps for this reason that Israeli officials themselves have used the term to describe what will happen if the two-state solution never materializes.

In 2010, then Defense Minister Ehud Barak said the following:

"As long as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic...If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”
Despite this, so-called "pro-Israel" groups have come out strongly against Kerry, calling for him to be axed. Of course, these same groups stood idly by as Israel doubled the pace of its settlement building during the Kerry-led peace negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

Why? Because in truth, such organizations are not interested in peace. They are interested in nothing more than the demonization and domination of the Palestinians in what they view as a zero-sum game war which, if won in the way they'd like, could result in exactly the type of long-term result Kerry fears.

                                                           --§--

What Do You Buy For the Children
David Harris-Gershon is author of the memoir What Do You Buy the Children of the Terrorist Who Tried to Kill Your Wife?, just out from Oneworld Publications.



Originally posted to David Harris-Gershon (The Troubadour) on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:41 AM PDT.

Also republished by Writing by David Harris Gershon and Adalah — A Just Middle East.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (103+ / 0-)

    "If the Jew who struggles for justice for Palestine is considered anti-Semitic, & if Palestinians seeking self-determination are so accused...then no oppositional move can take place w/o risking the accusation." - Judith Butler

    by David Harris Gershon on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:41:04 AM PDT

  •  Fire Kerry? (15+ / 0-)

    The right thing, for the wrong reason.  But that's kind of par for the course inside the Beltway.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:47:36 AM PDT

    •  There are advantages in having a #2 or #3 that can (6+ / 0-)

      go around saying what you would like to have said, but that you can disavow if absolutely necessary.  Witness Biden.

      I think this is savvy politics.  And everyone is focused on Russia/Ukraine right now -- this is directly relevant.  If the US/NATO doesn't keep their clients/members safe, then forget the value of a patron.  So "ignore your patron" at your own risk is the undertone.

      The are definitely wheels within wheels here.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
      —Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:25:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I was so utterly unaware (10+ / 0-)

        that Ukraine was one of our "clients/members" . . . thanks for the clarification!

        Or maybe you meant to say that Israel was a USA/Nato "client/member"?

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:35:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How about Estonia, Poland, and Lithuania? (4+ / 0-)

          You know, the actual members who have been asking for help?

          Were you aware of them?

          Art is the handmaid of human good.

          by joe from Lowell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:37:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The proof that they need no help (7+ / 0-)

            can be found in the token nature of our "help."

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:38:50 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's just embarrassingly wrong. (5+ / 0-)

              That is an absurd statement on so many levels.

              Art is the handmaid of human good.

              by joe from Lowell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:41:58 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yeah, because Russia is so keen to attack (7+ / 0-)

                NATO member states.  Right.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:43:58 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why is Russia not keen to attack NATO member (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  joe from Lowell

                  states?

                  You've said yourself that we don't bother helping other countries so why should Russia care about that?

                  When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

                  by PhillyJeff on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:37:16 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I'm unaware of a case in which (4+ / 0-)

                    we've failed to defend a fellow NATO state when under attack from another state and requesting defense therefor.  If you know of one, please provide.

                    Furthermore, when we let a country go hang, it's because our MIC can't derive a more or less risk-free profit from it.  

                    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                    by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:39:46 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Are you aware of any facts on the ground? (6+ / 0-)

                  Russia demanded, and eventually forced an agreement with Lithuania to transport troops, tanks, and weapons to its itty bitty filthy concrete wasteland known as Kaliningrad Oblast?  The Russians kicked out all the germans there in 1947 and have made it a warm water military base. It is surrounded by Poland and Lithuania, and many times, the Russians have indicated that they tire of traveling through Nato countries simply to supply their people. Their solution has been to take over those pesky Nato countries that are in their way.

                  I've heard that tour groups now visit Kaliningrad, even though it was a closed city until 1991. One of the most favored tourist attractions is the highway leaving the region.

                  Lithuanians greatly fear the Russian bear, with good reason. I was there in 1991, just after the Russian tanks rolled over several unarmed Lithuanians. I was there when concrete floors were torn up in former KGB buildings leading to the discovery of hundreds of tortured "missing" corpses who crossed some imaginary line that Moscow and the KGB created. I was teaching there when Moscow turned off the gas supply to Lithuania, causing ambulances to be replaced by horse drawn carts to transport sick and injured to hospital.

                  I suspect that your knowledge about that region is very incomplete. A bit of reading would help tremendously.

                  What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                  by agnostic on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:36:02 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  This is a lie (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    corvo, Celtic Merlin, Pablo Bocanegra

                    " Their solution has been to take over those pesky Nato countries that are in their way."

                    They have done nothing of the sort.

                    … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                    by mosesfreeman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:21:25 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  You have never read the Lithuanian (2+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      JNEREBEL, just another vet

                      papers quoting various Russian officials, then, have you? I have.

                      No lie, just ignorance on the part of too many americans.

                      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                      by agnostic on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:24:19 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Its just CT (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        corvo, Celtic Merlin

                        unless you can prove it.

                        Worthless, unsupported speculation is both destructive and unwelcome.

                        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                        by mosesfreeman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:48:53 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  bullshit. (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          just another vet, OHdog

                          If you have no clue about the actual, serious fears in the Baltic states, then the least you could do is to stop baseless accusations about CT. Your ignorance is astounding.

                          I've been there, many times.  I've read the reports during negotiations for transit through Lithuania. I've seen the quotes from russian officials.

                          Have you ever even been outside of the US? And no, New Jersey does not count.

                          What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                          by agnostic on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:54:24 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  You have asserted (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            corvo, Celtic Merlin

                            that Russia plans to attack Lithuania. You can't prove your assertions, so you go all ad-hominem.

                            Pitiful and predictable.

                            Russia will not attack Lithuania, Putin is not that stupid.

                            You are engaging in reckless fear-mongering.

                            Btw I was in Poland the day that Solidarnosc was legalized, we fully expected the Red Army to come out in force and crush the celebrants. What we got instead was crickets (thankfully!).

                            I know a thing or two about legitimate fear of Russia, this case doesn't qualify.

                            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                            by mosesfreeman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:18:50 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  Russia has used threats (0+ / 0-)

                            repeatedly to get what it wanted in terms of transit through Lithuania with military convoys. Those threats were repeatedly reported in papers quoting russian officials.

                            Given your tone and general lack of knowledge, I find it hard to believe that you actually traveled outside of your state. That is CT until you show me proof of it.

                            What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

                            by agnostic on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:29:34 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  All bluster (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            corvo, Celtic Merlin

                            and no substance. You are a political scarecrow.

                            Take your CT elsewhere.

                            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                            by mosesfreeman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:35:28 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  What do you want? (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            corvo

                            My left-over Pewex bons? Old Zubrowka or Zywiec labels?

                            I've told you enough already that I am exactly who I say I am. You on the other hand are a fraud and a huckster. Begone!

                            … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

                            by mosesfreeman on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:16:26 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

        •  Left it vague on purpose. Ukraine ISN'T and that's (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          doroma

          a lesson for the observer.

          Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
          I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
          —Spike Milligan

          by polecat on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:38:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  but apparently not a lesson (3+ / 0-)

            for Obama, Kerry & Co.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:41:27 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I said most of my opinions about Kerry in 2004. (10+ / 0-)

              Not worth repeating, but put it this way: Dean should have been the nominee.

              Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
              I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
              —Spike Milligan

              by polecat on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:47:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I'm more interested in his performance (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                shaharazade, snoopydawg, mosesfreeman

                in his current gig . . . which, quite frankly, has been frequently embarrassing.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:48:34 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  "has been frequently embarrassing" (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  polecat, ExpatGirl, OHdog

                  What specifically are you referring to?

                  If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

                  by CwV on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:56:10 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Oh, so much to choose from. (4+ / 0-)

                    Sisi's "restoring democracy"; Assad's "Munich Moment" . . .

                    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                    by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:02:39 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  But he wanted to be Sec.State SOOOO badly!/nt (0+ / 0-)

                      Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
                      I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
                      —Spike Milligan

                      by polecat on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:30:08 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  So what is the solution then? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      ExpatGirl

                      You support military intervention in both Egypt and Syria?

                      He could cut a WWE style promo and scream into the camera about how Egypt's new government is more of the same and how Assad is a big bad meanie. What is that going to accomplish?

                      We're not going into Syria. Egypt is an extremely difficult situation as there isn't really a democratic alternative to Sisi and anything we do risks destabilizing the country further.

                      It really bugs me sometimes how people on the left seem to think that with the right speech and the right bully pulpit anything in the world can easily be fixed.

                      When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

                      by PhillyJeff on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:40:37 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  It really bugs me how (4+ / 0-)

                        "people on the left" are so eager to assume that supporting false statements or bad leadership is always the best course of action . . . when it's one of "our guys."

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:47:47 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  and as always (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        JesseCW

                        your sig line is superbly ironic. :-)))

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:48:06 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  unless you mean of course to say (0+ / 0-)

                        that it's the leaders of the present we should be putting up on pedestals . . .

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:49:05 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  No, I think it's hilarious that people lionize FDR (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          poco

                          when he was probably the worst president in the history of America in respect to civil liberties with Japanese internment.

                          As bad as slavery was and as terrible as slavery-supporting presidents were, slavery was implicitly legal and protected by the constitution (other white men who are beloved by progressives everywhere btw).

                          So when I see the same people who think Obama should be more like FDR yell about how Obama is somehow a cross between 1984's Big Brother and Stalin it's amusing to me.

                          If Obama simply expanded Guantanamo Bay and tried to put every Muslim or Arab in it he'd be much closer to FDR.

                          When we stop putting leaders from the past up on pedestals and ignoring their flaws, we can start seeing our present leaders for what they really are.

                          by PhillyJeff on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:58:41 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Whoever you're talking to, (0+ / 0-)

                            it ain't me.  I wasn't referring to FDR at all, much less his internment of Japanese Americans.

                            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                            by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:23:44 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  I was in South Korea under military rule (0+ / 0-)

                        in the 1960s, as a Peace Corps Volunteer. It was apparently that or an utterly corrupt US puppet government (Syngman Rhee). They have evolved to a state of democratic/republican government in which they are OK with putting a former President on trial and in prison, a state which we have not yet attained.

                        The notion that setting up elections creates a democracy is fatuous. You need formal, functioning checks and balances within government, and you need a civil society that can punch back at the ballot box and in court (but not with guns).

                        Most current democracies went through major civil war or the creation and collapse of dictatorships in the process of getting to that state. The English Civil War and Protectorate, the American Civil War, the Spanish Civil War, the Greek Civil War, Italian unification, German unification, the French Revolution, all of the Communist and anti-Communist dictatorships of the Cold War, nearly all post-colonial countries…

                        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

                        by Mokurai on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:16:28 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                    •  Again, do you seriously think (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Celtic Merlin

                      that it would have been different with a different SoS? it was the requirement of the position at the time to go out and foam at the mouth, Rumsfeld-style, so the President could sit back and look grave, wise, and judicious; hope to stir up a war, but know that if your attempt backfires, the President's reputation will remain undamaged. Kerry was Obama's sin eater, on that occasion--or, better way to put it, DERP eater.

                      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

                      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:19:13 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  no. so what? n/t (0+ / 0-)

                        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:44:42 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  My point, which might not be that interesting (0+ / 0-)

                          I guess, is that we are--to some extent--past the point where the personalities and abilities of individual politicians as compared to other individual politicians, mean much of anything at all, just like it doesn't matter which puppet is put out on the Punch and Judy stage.

                          There are exceptions, of course; there are politicians who really enjoy the Punch and Judy show, and enjoy the real aims of those manipulating it, and they're worse. There are politicians who are actually fairly decent people who try to water down the poison of the policies they're being made to inscribe into law or enact through our police, military, and spooks. But those differences shrink all the time. The important part is who is pulling the strings.

                          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

                          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:52:08 AM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  Beside the point. (0+ / 0-)

                            Even puppets, however interchangeable, can be replaced.

                            But unlike politicians, you can make good use of a failed puppet: kindling, for instance.  Politicians just continue to cause more harm: as lobbyists, or university presidents, for instance.

                            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                            by corvo on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:27:24 AM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

    •  Well, if Kristol said it, (14+ / 0-)

      Obama should do the opposite.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:46:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Do NOT fire current Sec of State... (8+ / 0-)

      The current Sec of State rightfully speaks for the President of the United States of America.

      You shouldn't fire him unless you are saying he was NOT speaking for the President of the United States of America.

      Mr. Obama (and Mr. Kerry) are 100% correct in their assessment.  They are speaking the truth.

      Israel is in danger of becoming an apartheid state.

      Even President Carter thought so, and...said so.  No one since him has demonstrated the courage to say so publicly since Mr. Carter.

      Israel and the apartheid analogy is a comparison between Israel's treatment of the Palestinians and South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era.
      Seems like maybe Israel not happy when truth is being known outside closed doors.

      Someone, somewhere gotta do something differently, or...we are just gonna keep getting the same bull$h*t.

      Do NOT fire current Sec of State...

      My name is Gladiator...I am... (a) father of a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife and...I shall have my vengeance in this life or...the next.

      by 2questions on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:45:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Not really the right thing. (0+ / 0-)

      Do you seriously believe he'd be replaced with someone better?

      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:16:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  again: no. so what? n/t (0+ / 0-)

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:45:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  See above. (0+ / 0-)

          I just think we need to focus on where the real power is.

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:52:45 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  we can multitask, can't we? n/t (0+ / 0-)

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:27:42 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  The Truth Hurts (54+ / 0-)

    I can only hope that Kerry stands by his statements instead of dialing them back in the face of Conservative pressure.  What Kerry expressed is a matter of fact, not opinion, and he shouldn't be made to contradict the obvious situational fact that Israel only has three choices in the face of a growing Palestinian population:

    1.  Two State Solution;
    2.  A single mixed (non-Jewish) Democratic State; or
    3.  Apartheid.

    Bebe, you're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:48:28 AM PDT

  •  Carter said it seven years ago. (35+ / 0-)

    He got thrown under the bus by a hell of a lot of politicians.

    It will be interesting to see if any of them support Kerry now that he's said the same thing.

    "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

    by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 06:55:12 AM PDT

  •  Or what? Kristol and Co. fervently anti-Obama (13+ / 0-)

    and Admin on everything, so they have zero "juice" to demand anything.  

    Glenn Greenwald promotes far-right fringe extremist group The Oath Keepers - https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/statuses/377787818619064320

    by Jacoby Jonze on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:19:07 AM PDT

    •  Bringing a proof from Kristol (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      gffish, Mets102

      on a Progressive site????

      Who will next be cited here, Sarah Palin?

      •  well, seeing as most "progressives" (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        callmecassandra, shaharazade, ask

        are likely to agree with Kristol . . .

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:43:03 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  WHAT? (9+ / 0-)

          Why would progressives agree with Kristol on this?
          Kerry was exactly right, just as Carter was right, just as Desmond Tutu was right.
          And Kristol is as wrong as he usually is.

          If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

          by CwV on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:02:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Unquestioning support for Israel (5+ / 0-)

            has always been a progressive position, to say nothing of the position of "progressives" who are just Conservadems appropriating the term (just as they've appropriated the term "liberal").

            That's only just beginning to change now.

            Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

            by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:10:23 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Support, aye, unquestioning? Notsomuch. (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              SCFrog, tgrshark13, Black Mare

              The past couple decades of Sharon and Netanyahu and Uhlmert and Netanyahu and their alliances with the NeoCON wing of the GOP has put the government of Israel on a watchlist for MANY people on the left. And the Settlers and the rabid Orthodox parties have tarnished the aura of the Israeli people.
              Also too, we became aware of Palestinians.
              The monolithic (and maybe blissfully ignorant) unalloyed support for Israel that the Left had back in the 60s and 70s is no longer operable.

              If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

              by CwV on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:28:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's what I meant by (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                JesseCW

                "That's only just beginning to change now."

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:53:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  support for what we might wish Israel was (0+ / 0-)

              Support for the "facts on the ground".  Never.

              Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

              by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:06:34 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Really? (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco, Black Mare

              The most unquestioning support for Israel I have ever seen has come from die hard Republicans.

              Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

              by ExpatGirl on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:16:18 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That's only fairly recent, (0+ / 0-)

                once the Religious Right made common cause with a demographic they considered (and still consider) damned to hell.

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:19:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  You should meet some of the Jewish Democrats (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Mets102

                I know here in New York. Like this man:

                http://en.wikipedia.org/...

                He will become the Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee when we take back control of the House of Representatives after this fall's elections.

            •  That is because Israel is a Progressive country (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Justanothernyer, Mets102

              compared to all its neighbors. Especially compared to the theocratic terrorists Hamas and Hezbollah.

              But even I, who am often pilloried here by the pro-Palestinian side, am not "unquestioning" in my support for Israel. I've always opposed the settlement enterprise (and I do that in right wing orthodox forums where I don't get a lot of support).

            •  Politicians vs. People (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              poco

              I'm progressive and harbor no support for Israel whatsoever.  I have repeatedly written to the White House and State Department to drastically alter our policies as we endanger our own country by being so accommodating of their actions.

              That said, were you referring to what even progressive politicians have to say to get elected, or how they must vote for fear of being skewered by a blatantly Jabotinskyite mainstream media?

              I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

              by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:33:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Welcome to the progressive minority :-) n/t (0+ / 0-)

                Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:49:32 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Like hell we are. (0+ / 0-)

          Are you perhaps thinking of liberals? Or maybe centrists?

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:31:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Do they need juice? (0+ / 0-)

      Those asswipes who forced the retirement of Van Jones were plenty anti-Obama.

      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:30:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You seem to forget that Obama (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        SouthernLiberalinMD

        was in no mood to defend him.

        Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

        by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:49:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, I don't forget. (0+ / 0-)

          I don't trust Obama to defend anybody outside of his own (reputedly very tight) circle of personal friends. Like Valerie Jarrett.

          Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

          by SouthernLiberalinMD on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:41:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  "Separate but Equal" ? Segregation Now, (5+ / 0-)

    Segregation Tomorrow, Segregation Forever!

    /Just sayin'

    Happy little moron, Lucky little man.
    I wish I was a moron, MY GOD, Perhaps I am!
    —Spike Milligan

    by polecat on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:20:32 AM PDT

  •  The apartheid ship has sailed (31+ / 2-)

    If anything, President Obama should dock Kerry's allowance for waffling about what is obvious to the rest of the world.

  •  I doubt this will be the official response but. (6+ / 0-)

    Bill Kristol's right-wing group, the Emergency Committee for Israel, can go royally fuck itself, and then go royally fuck itself again.

    Bill Kristol? His crowd? Demanding resignations? From anyone? That takes some stones even after just a week of Kristol and company during the start of the Iraq War.



    Ring! Ring!

    "Hey... you. Mr. President. Hi. Yeah. This is (mumbles quickly) Um, we'd like to take a little break from swapping the latest memes about how you are the worst President in American history with WND and the Fox & Friends wing of Fox News and, also, as well, stop and pause our collective foamy-mouthed musings about why you should be impeached and removed from office (Benghazi! Benghazi! Benghazi! heh.) to just call you from John McCain's office phone um while he's napping so you'd pick up the call and just, well, just demand that you fire your Secretary of State? Okay? Thankssomuch.

    Um. One last thing...

    RESIGN THE PRESIDENCY OR BE IMPEACHED!"

    Click!

    Dead silence on the line.

    Now, back to the business of going on basic cable and issuing editorials about how Obama, actually, if you look closely, just wants the Iranians to get the bomb and immediately nuke Israel!

    “Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action.” — Auric Goldfinger

    by LeftHandedMan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:24:56 AM PDT

  •  Like Kerry's out there going rogue! (5+ / 0-)

    Yeah, I'm sure President Obama is just horrified by what Kerry is saying.

    Art is the handmaid of human good.

    by joe from Lowell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:36:25 AM PDT

    •  Yeah. He did that on Syria too. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Celtic Merlin

      We have an independent SoS for the first time since Dulles! Somebody get on the phone and reel Kerry in! He's a madman!

      He's on the loose like a giant six-foot bird!

      Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:39:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Fire Kerry say people (14+ / 0-)

    who would like to have an Apartheid State in the US, prevent minorities from voting, increase social inequality, would be more than happy to reintroduce slavery.
    The current GOP is dangerously close to being a racist Pro Apartheid party.

    Kerry didn't say anybody already knows. Citing thedailybeast:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/...
    "Ehud Barak used language very similar to Kerry's. "As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic," Barak said. "If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."'

    •  Israel becomes an Apartheid-like issue for GOP (8+ / 0-)

      Democrats shouldn't waver. Israel has a choice to make between a democracy that is inclusive for all its people independent of religion or an Apartheid-like regime. And the GOP is on the Pro Apartheid side. History repeats itself. Cheney still has no regrets for his statements calling Mandela a terrorist. No regrets. And the militant evangelical Pro Israel wing of the GOP represents the far right. This will come very clear in the next days in response to Kerry's clear words. I find this very helpful. In fact, Kerry also said: " ... if peace talks fail, it would bolster the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement against Israel." Right he is. A critical choice for Israel indeed.

    •  relevant Truthout interview, including the US link (3+ / 0-)

      link

      I love the connections and intersections you make in your book between the subjugation and control of people of color in the United States and Palestinians and African refugees in Israel. Why do you think these connections are important to highlight?

      They're important to highlight because they're real at a number of levels. One is mass incarceration. The new Jim Crow and Obama's mass deportation are products of still-very-present white supremacist and colonial mentality in the United States. These ideologies are what allow people of color to be treated essentially as a demographic threat in the United States. And that goes from Arizona, which I talk about in the book, where it's kind of ground zero. But it's also very much at the federal level and all over the country.

      And these connections are real in very material ways.

      In the book, I talk about this kind of conveyor belt of US police chiefs being taken on these junkets to Israel, where they're taken to places like Megiddo Prison, where Palestinian children are tortured and held in solitary confinement. And then they come out and say, "Wow, Israel is so great. We're going to take everything we learned about counterterrorism back to the United States." Our police chiefs in the US have no problem praising Israel as a paragon of human rights and good practice, and that really should set alarm bells ringing off everywhere.

      Interview with Ali Abunimah, about his new book The Battle for Justice in Palestine

      From the interview, the structure of the book is both about condition of Palestinians and also relates to USA experiences. I plan to read this book.

      Giving birth (giving life) should be a gift not an obligation or women and poor people are 2nd class by definition

      by julifolo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:06:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kerry is 100% right. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gffish, Karl Rover, Lepanto, Celtic Merlin

    But such bold proclamations will not make the Israelis suddenly see the light any more than the Palestinians are willing to forgo the right of return. They've all seen this rodeo before. It seems that Kerry is unaware of that.

    If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

    by HairyTrueMan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:59:42 AM PDT

    •   seem unaware? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, leevank, mjd in florida, Karl Rover

      He is not a stupid man. Doubt he expects a sudden stark turn around. Diplomacy I am sure Kerry thinks, is often about inching forward in the right direction, anyway. The man sees many shades of grey. That didn't translate well to running for President, if we recall.

      From US SoS, having it Said itself...out on the table, seems useful. It counts more than if a European leader said it, to Israelis.

      •  Yes, he seems unaware. (0+ / 0-)

        Kerry comes off as arrogant, like he knows something that everyone else at the table doesn't. But he isn't smart enough to avoid using terms such as "apartheid", which will only piss of the Israelis and the backers of Israel in the US.

        Foolish language for our top diplomat IMO...

        If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

        by HairyTrueMan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:41:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I think it's necessary language (5+ / 0-)

          The Israeli right wing, above all others, needs to be forced to see what the future holds if it continues on its present path.  And there really IS no alternative to a two-state solution if Israel is to be both a predominantly Jewish state and a democracy.

          Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

          by leevank on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:13:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Everyone KNOWS that a two-state solution... (0+ / 0-)

            is the only way. John Kerry is not breaking any new ground with this proclamation. So what's the next step Mr. Secretary?

            If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

            by HairyTrueMan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:36:30 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Israel will give up democracy first (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo
            And there really IS no alternative to a two-state solution if Israel is to be both a predominantly Jewish state and a democracy.
            They'll give up democracy to remain a Jewish state in possession of all of "Judea and Samaria" rather than give up the West Bank to remain a Jewish state and a democracy.

            Ethno-nationalism and religion are each bad enough on their own.  Ethno-nationalism elevated into religion - which at its core is what Judaism always was - I don't think we have a chance against that.

            Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

            by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:03:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Certain sections of the original Daily Beast (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP, jrooth, mjd in florida

    exclusive are informative.

    As Doctor Who notes above Secretary Kerry is merely noting facts of population demographics noted by many previous notable Israelis, such as Defense Minister Ehud Barack as well as former President Carter, and Nobel Prize winner Desmond Tutu.  

    Exclusive: Kerry Warns Israel Could Become ‘An Apartheid State’

    If there’s no two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict soon, Israel risks becoming “an apartheid state,” Secretary of State John Kerry told a room of influential world leaders in a closed-door meeting Friday. ...

    According to the 1998 Rome Statute, the “crime of apartheid” is defined as “inhumane acts… committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.” The term is most often used in reference to the system of racial segregation and oppression that governed South Africa from 1948 until 1994. ...

    Former president Jimmy Carter came under fire in 2007 for titling his book on Middle East peace Palestine: Peace or Apartheid. Carter has said publicly that his views on Israeli treatment of the Palestinians are a main cause of his poor relationship with President Obama and his lack of current communication with the White House. But Carter explained after publishing the book that he was referring to apartheid-type policies in the West Bank, not Israel proper, and he was not accusing Israel of institutionalized racism.
    “Apartheid is a word that is an accurate description of what has been going on in the West Bank, and it’s based on the desire or avarice of a minority of Israelis for Palestinian land,” Carter said. ...

    Yet Israel’s leaders have employed the term, as well. In 2010, for example, former Prime Minister and Defense Minister Ehud Barak used language very similar to Kerry’s. “As long as in this territory west of the Jordan River there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic,” Barak said. “If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”...

    “There is a fundamental confrontation and it is over settlements. Fourteen thousand new settlement units announced since we began negotiations. It’s very difficult for any leader to deal under that cloud,” Kerry said. ...

    It's widely known that Prime Minister Netanyahu has had no intention of negotiating a peace treaty on the basis of the 1967 borders and has been perfectly happy to stall for time while he continues establishing these 14,000 "facts on the ground," as he like to call them, knowing once settlements are firmly established it would take enormous acts of violence to uproot them to the point it is practically impossible.

    In the last few days, Israeli newspapers have been filled with news of open calls for Israel to annex Area C of the "disputed territories" or what every else calls about 60% the West Bank and hope for future homeland of the Palestinian State.

    Some in Israel have been clear that there fall back plan short of the vision of a "Greater Israel" is to annex East Jerusalem and Area C, and maybe even parts of area B, but leave out area A and the Gaza strip so as not to incur the "demographic penalty" the rest of the world keeps warning them about" which would give the problem of having to many non-Jewish Arabs to remain both Jewish and a democracy.

    This fraction of the right-wing, and it does not appear to be just what we would like to call "extreme-right ideologues"  people appear to seriously believe they can "get away" with drawing little circles around a few "bantu-land" islands of Palestinians and Gazans and walk away with the prime real estate.

    Both the Palestinians and Israelis have walked away from the talks for different reasons. President Abbas seems to think he can pull off this maneuver with Hamas were they recognize his government as the leader of Palestinians, and then his recognition of  Israel's right to exist, and renunciation of violence should suffice so Hamas does not have to.

    Netanyahu not only rejects his but then uses this as an opportunity to walk away from talks he really didn't want anyway and was pressured into, now delighted he thinks he can go back to his boa constrictor "facts on the ground" de-fact settlement annexation plan.

    So Kerry is trying a last change pressuring trying to say he's not saying it, but just noticing that he's not gong to be able to prevent others from saying Israel would be an Apartheid and some might resort to violence.

    I've recommended for more than two years this is not the best way, and is too clumsy, transparent, and impotent.

    A more effective way, is would be the a combination of the Baker approach with a play from Europe and the Quartet and maybe also China if possible.

    Kerry throws up his hands and declares his effort has reached an impasse and both the parties have reached an impasse.

    The Palestinians apply for full membership in the UN and all organizations including the ICC. The 145 nations that already voted for their full membership immediately bilaterally recognize the state of Palestine along the 1967 borders (with contingencies for whatever mutually agreeable land swaps both parties may mutually agree to later).

    Also, then provide maximum pressure withing the UN for Palestine to join every possible organization and announce the intentions redo both General Assembly and Security Council Votes every year. (If I were Kerry and Obama I would secretly let out rumors that strong factions within the US intelligence and military communities were advising them not to veto the next security council vote because of the damage it would do to our international credibility and that of the UN)  

    President Abbas, the Palestinians reemphasize their recognize Israel's right to exist peacefully within the 1967 borders or mutually agreed to land swaps and announce a BDS against all Israeli banks, corporations and institutions until such time as Israel withdraws to within these 67 borders or adjusted land swap. No additional conditions.

    The get Hamas and anyone else  to renounce all  BDS calling for he destruction of Israel or anything other than withdrawing to 67 borders as a transitional step. Once that accomplished anyone can do what they want in that regard (they can already, I'm just suggestion how Abbas frame his request)

    Abbas then requests the Quartet, or Quintet countries and or the U.N. for assistance in maintaining the mutual security of both the new Palestinian State as well as Israel, most especially in the Jordan Valley for some minimum period that top Israeli military officials would find comforting, say 10 years.

    Several think given the success of new missal defense systems the old sense of vulnerability there is obsolete and overdone.

    And, Kerry says to Netanyahu, "Oy, what can I do? And, just between the two of us, we expect it to get worse." lifting his hands and shaking his head.

    This is the only kind of pressure Netanyahu will understand IMO. Newspapers have reported that he has openly mocked Americans for our weakness, and I believe I even remember reading one he bragged openly that he has us "wrapped around his little finger."

    He does not experience what Kerry is doing now as any kind of pressure, and it makes Kerry and America look weak. We are limited to a great extent by our domestic political situation so we should essentially step back and let others take the lead for a while.

    My guess is this was sort of the outline of the long-term plan with the Quartet but the breakdown in Ukraine put an unexpected wrench in the gears. So the question is do the other Arab nations, Europeans  and others nations care enough about this to take the lead, or is the fear of Iran sufficient they are willing to hang the Palestinians out to dry.

    So anyway, I feel sorry for Secretary Kerry. He is a fine and intelligent man, a great patriot, with lots of courage and has tried harder than most to make something work despite much courage. My fear is his original plan was not bold enough, as far as we know so far.

    If what we are seeing now is just the first card in a major global "tour de force," of some variation of the above, many may take back, and apologize to Senator Kerry for not having more confidence in how far he will go to achieve a peaceful two-state solution between Israel and Palestine. Because, seriously, what is the alternative?        

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:04:02 AM PDT

    •  There is no reason to feel sorry for him. (0+ / 0-)

      I'm sure that he has grown extra layers of protection from all of the previous false allegations that he's confronted over the years.  

      What's needed is broad dissent of Israel's rightwing governing body and to express our scorn for their continued and escalating self-centered, overreaching and warmongering philosophy.  This would certainly entail vast cuts in the financial support provided to them by the United States.  How many of us feel like suckers to Israel and their government's unacceptable behavior?

  •  Fuck Kristol (9+ / 0-)

    He's  never uttered a single sane thought.

  •  Since Bill Kristol has been consistently wrong (4+ / 0-)

    on virtually everything every time he opens his mouth for years, why does anyone pay any attention to what he says?

  •  Coming from Kristol that guarantees ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leevank, Celtic Merlin

    ... Kerry won't get so much as a crooked look from the WH.  In fact, I doubt this was a slip up at all.  Kerry spoke in private, off the record so I'll bet he was speaking for the administration.  

    Kinda reminds me of the Biden, marriage equality 'slip up'.  Within a few weeks POTUS was on TV affirming his support for equality.  You may see him speak to this issue if we don't see more by in from Netanyahu soon.  

    of course it would help if Hamas leadership would follow Abbas' example by acknowledging the Holocaust and it's importance.

  •  warnings are excellent (4+ / 0-)

    People who protest to the point of clamoring to remove the speaker for a warning are in general over reacting and often attention seeking. The doth protest too much. GOP noise tires my ears and I hope it tires the ears of other voters.

    And Kerry is no foe of Israel.

  •  Huh. (8+ / 0-)

    I thought it already was. Do we have a more PC term for it these days or something?

    "You want weapons? We're in a library! Books! The best weapons in the world! This room is the greatest arsenal we could have—arm yourselves!" -The Doctor

    by quillsinister on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:46:46 AM PDT

  •  The Apartheid/Israel analogies are flawed... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mattoqp, Kane in CA

    to say the least. When were blacks firing rockets into Johannesburg? When did Nelson Mandela refuse to acknowledge the existence of South Africa? But then, not many folks on either side of the I/P conflict have demonstrated much interest in being level headed and fair.

    Kerry can find plenty of ways to criticize the settlers and the West Bank land grabs without going there, and he should not have gone there. It's fine for the angry left; free speech and all that. But he's supposed to be a diplomat. At the same time the demand for his sacking is ridiculously over the top. It just seems both sides in this thing are determined to make themselves appear as unreasonable and dickish as possible.

    You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

    by Eric Stratton on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:55:45 AM PDT

    •  The PLO has recognized Israel for 22 years. (16+ / 0-)

      Many Africans, some associated with the ANC and some not, used violence extensively in their own struggle against apartheid - but the tactics used to resist such a system of oppression do not define the system itself.

      If a thousand bombs a year had detonated in Afrikaner preschools, Apartheid would have been just as wrong.  An evil system does not become less  evil if the people who suffer under it resort to inexcusable and unjustifiable means of resistance.

      Most of those unable to see the parallels don't know very much about what Apartheid was.

      "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

      by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:36:36 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well naturally I'm a stupid, bad person. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        The West Bank today is exactly like South Africa in the 1980's and there's nothing wrong or offensive about trying to link Israel to white supremacy.

        I mean, seriously? You can't be that stupid. You just can't.

        An evil system does not become less  evil if the people who suffer under it resort to inexcusable and unjustifiable means of resistance.
        When people are being engaged violently by their political opponents, then it isn't an "evil system", it's a fucking war. That changes things just a bit. It does in fact tend to define things differently.

        You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

        by Eric Stratton on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:45:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You've decided you know more about apartheid (5+ / 0-)

          than Desmond Tutu.

          It's not my place to argue with your self assessment.

          But getting to the core of the matter -

          Black South Africans ambushing cops doesn't make Apartheid ok.    Native Americans killing women ina children in raids didn't make attacking them and stealing their land ok.

          Aggressive land theft isn't validated by the means by which the invaded people resist.

          "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

          by JesseCW on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:04:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The ANC and non-ANC Struggle heros (6+ / 0-)

      are on record as believing the Apartheid currently exists in Israel and the OT.

      Tell Warner Brothers Pictures that Rooney Mara is #NotYourTigerLily.

      by ExpatGirl on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:20:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Seriously? You think there wasn't violent (10+ / 0-)

      resistance to apartheid by black South Africans? And are you really unaware that Mandela was a co-founder of Umkhonto we Sizwe, the armed wing of the ANC?

      "Turns out I'm really good at killing people." - President Obama

      by jrooth on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:36:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Disinformation is rampant (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, poco, Flyswatterbanjo

        The original poster speaks in official American Mainstream Media.

        I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

        by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:54:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  No, actually. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        And I never said there was no violence. There is violence in Fargo, too. But that doesn't make it Gaza.

        The comparison of South Africa to the West Bank and Gaza... and the whole bloody mess that has taken place there since 1949, is absurd. There is no comparison. Some folks simply get off on linking Israel to white supremacy because they get off on trolling Jews. That you seem to miss that reveals your own lack of a clue.

        Of all the ways in which one can criticize the settlers, comparisons to Apartheid are just despicable. I mean, why not just go fro broke and call the Nazis? What could be wrong with that?

        You can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.

        by Eric Stratton on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:52:01 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How silly of Kerry for stating the OBVIOUS. (5+ / 0-)

    Without question, Israel will be getting the "South Africa" treatment soon if they don't get rid of Bebe and move to an honest resolution with the Palestinians.

    How long does the Israeli government think this behavior will be tolerated? The threats from neighbors and the cold war are both waning, most of Israel's neighbors are now US allies and have all come to terms with Israel's existence.

    The clock is ticking, US people's patience is running out, you had damn well better come to a meaningful peace settlement or it will get very very lonely in a hurry.

    •  "A meaningful peace settlement" (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JNEREBEL

      What does that mean?  Does that mean that Israel has to accept Palestinian demands for a "right of return"? Does it mean that Israel has to give up its identity as a Jewish state?

      It's very easy to say things like "Israel better come to a meaningful peace settlement" if you are vague about what that means.  But if it means that Israel must accept a Palestinian "right of return", or that Israel has to give up its identity as a Jewish state, it's not arguing that Israel has to come to a "meaningful" settlement -- it's just arguing that Israel has to agree to Palestinians' demands.

      In my view, a "meaningful" settlement is one where both sides give up their unreasonable demands, and their historical grievances, in order to come to a workable solution that respects the desire for both sides to have safety and autonomy.

      •  You know what it means. Israel gets the fuck out (7+ / 0-)

        of the territory it seized after launching a war in 1967.

        Everyone knows what it means.

        Attempts to pretend otherwise are distractions.

        "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

        by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:46:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  You didn't answer my questions (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          JNEREBEL

          So, does "meaningful peace settlement" include a "right of return", or doesn't it?  And does it include a recognition of Israel as a Jewish state, or doesn't it?

          Since I'm advocating that both sides give up their historical grievances, I won't waste time addressing your claim that Israel started the Six-Day War.  

          •  It means Israel gets the fuck out of (7+ / 0-)

            the territory it seized after launching a war in 1967.

            "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

            by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:12:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  I don't think "right of return" wouldn't be such (5+ / 0-)

            an issue if -- back in 1948, and also when settlements started being built in OT after 1967 -- people who currently lived on the lands at those times were compensated when they were displaced, if there had been any "consent to be governed".

            The way the people who created the Israel government at the start rather created their own problem. People who were pushed out, and their families, should be able to return to land that was taken from them without negotiation or compensation.

            Giving birth (giving life) should be a gift not an obligation or women and poor people are 2nd class by definition

            by julifolo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:37:02 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  The right of return (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, JesseCW, Black Mare, Celtic Merlin

            to Palestine.  Why should Israel have any say in who the Palestinians admit to their country.  Israel can call itself a Jewish state if it likes, it doesn't need Palestine's recognition of that.  Of course the non-Jews living in Israel should have a say in how Israel defines itself.  If Canada decides to call itself a Pastafarian state it wouldn't need U.S. recognition to do so.

          •  There will be no right of return and the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            JesseCW

            Palestinian and Israeli governments will recognize each other's legitimacy.

            Their is no particular reason the Palestinians should recognize Israel as a Jewish state.  The degree to which Israel is a Jewish state and what that means is an internal Israeli matter.

          •  obviously, if refugees who have the right (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            corvo, poco

            to return to what is now Israel are to be denied that right, they must be compensated. By Israel.

            The easily offended deserve to be easily offended.--God

            by Flyswatterbanjo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:34:05 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Nice strawman you got there (0+ / 0-)

        Be a pity if sumpn wazahapna it, like coming in contact with reality, amirite?

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:39:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Question for the diarist (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JNEREBEL, Mets102

    Do you agree with the comments herein stating that Israel is already an apartheid state?

    •  ooooh!!! . . . will there be a nice (7+ / 0-)

      writeup of this on the Progressive Zionist in the near future?

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:01:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Read his other material (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      corvo

      Also go to Tikkun.  It's a great site.  I started reading it when Norm Coleman was arguing that Paul Wellstone wasn't a real Jew, or something as silly.

      I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

      by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:02:24 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Make that Rudy Boschwitz or whoever (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo

        held the seat Franken has now.

        I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

        by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:04:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Hamas and Fatah (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    JNEREBEL

    The deal to unite Hamas and Fatah will be very illuminating for the peace process.  Hamas and Fatah have united in their government of the Palestinian people.  And they have promised new elections will take place soon.

    So, Palestinians will soon be put to the choice:  Do they re-elect Hamas -- a group that refuses to refuse Israel's right to exist and calls for the destruction of Israel -- and therefore signal their unwillingness to reach a deal on a two-state solution?  Or do they vote Hamas out, and elect a government that is willing to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state alongside a Palestinian state -- and therefore signal that they want peace talks to succeed?

    We'll find out soon enough -- assuming that Hamas keeps its word about holding new elections.

    •  Well, if the PA let the best candidates (0+ / 0-)

      out of prison, that might not be a concern . . .

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:24:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  oh, and exactly what does (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poco, just another vet, Black Mare
      right to exist as a Jewish state
      mean?  

      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

      by corvo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:25:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Jews are the majority and thus have the power (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo

        to not only impose a particularistic political order on the territory they possess even in the face of a democratic system, but enough social weight to normalize Jewishness in the street, the media, etc.

        A pluralistic society is incompatible with Zionism.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:48:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Not too long ago, Bibi's argument (9+ / 0-)

      against dealing with Palestine was that it was not a unified government, ergo, he could not negotiate with only part of it.

      Now that they are unified, Bibi argues that he cannot deal with Palestine because it has some elements that are almost as bad as Lieberman and other insane assholes that make up Bibi's current government.

      Kerry was rather benign in his statement.

      What we call god is merely a living creature with superior technology & understanding. If their fragile egos demand prayer, they lose that superiority.

      by agnostic on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:46:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Of course, when Israelis keep voting in a (5+ / 0-)

      majority that sees Palestinians as less than human and without fundamental rights that's never a referendum on the worth of the State of Israel, its people, or whether they have a sincere desire for peace.

      Whether they elect the right government is a metric only useful for judging Palestinians as a people.

      "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

      by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:49:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  False equivalence (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        JNEREBEL

        Israel's government has openly supported a two-state solution, and has made it clear that they will accept a Palestinian state next to Israel.

        Hamas has made it clear that it will not accept a two-state solution, but instead wants to see the destruction of Israel.

        These are not equivalent.

        •  Israels government has mowed down unarmed (9+ / 0-)

          civilians while stealing their land during "peace talks" for well over two decades.

          Israels Prime Minister has made it clear he will never support an actual independent Palestine, saying of Palestinian statehood "They can call it fried chicken if they want".  His goal is a small archipelago of bantustans without water comprising no more than a third of the West Bank.

          "If anybody is wondering about Tom’s qualifications, Tom is the only member of both the cable television and the wireless industry hall of fame. So he’s like the Jim Brown of telecom, or the Bo Jackson of telecom.” President Obama

          by JesseCW on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:16:03 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  That's why I no longer distinguish (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        corvo, poco, callmecassandra

        between the Israeli government and its people.

        The voters have spoken, repeatedly, and the voters are unwilling to recognize Palestinians as a people they actively occupy.

        I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

        by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:11:04 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How can you make such a statement when (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Mets102

          Likud did not win the majority of the vote and saw their number of seats diminish?

          And incidentally, I know I wasn't a Republican when this country elected Ray-Gun and Bush in three consecutive elections.

          "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

          by JNEREBEL on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:24:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Likud lost seats to those even farther right. (5+ / 0-)

            Don't make out like Likud is the worst of Israel's right wing.  Bennett makes Netanyahu look like FDR.

            Struggle with dignity against injustice. IS there anything more honorable that a person can do?

            by Celtic Merlin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:37:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That is why, yes. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              corvo, Celtic Merlin

              The Israeli left has been so greatly diminished it is virtually nonexistent in the Knesset. Barely there in the street.

              I still have some personal friends, but even some I once spoke with openly have gone over to the dark side and spout bad propaganda. And many once-bright lights are now deceased.

              I think Israel (and/or AIPAC) has a large and problematic influence on our foreign policy and legislation as it relates to Iran and the Middle East. Since I've been hidden for saying this, I expect to be hidden every time I post with this sig.

              by Black Mare on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:48:26 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Don't put words in my mouth. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mets102

              I never said Likud was the worst of the conservatives.  And left of center parties also gained seats as well.  

              "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

              by JNEREBEL on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 04:06:24 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But the TRUTH of your comment IS that (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                BradyB, poco, corvo, callmecassandra

                Likud "lost" seats, but they lost those seats to even farther right-wing people than themselves.  Does the name Naftali Bennett ring any bells in your big, empty head?

                Permit me to educate the rest of DKos about one of your favorite Israeli politicians:

                On February 2012, Bennett published a plan for managing the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, called "The Israel Stability Initiative."[21][22] The plan is based in part on parts of earlier initiatives: "Peace on Earth" by Adi Mintz and the "Elon Peace Plan" by Binyamin Elon, and relies on the statements of the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Likud party ministers that spoke in favor of unilateral annexation of the West Bank. Bennett opposes the creation of a Palestinian state: "I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state."[25]
                Bold added by me to point out what a nutcase is this asshole.

                Your comment was in response to a comment that draws no distinction between the Israeli government and its people.  You got SO indignant about it, too!

                How can you make such a statement when Likud did not win the majority of the vote and saw their number of seats diminish?
                As though the right-wing RULING PARTY (Likud) is losing any significant ground to the Left in Israel - what little there is left of a Left in Israel - when it in fact lost ground to the far-out fringe conservative right-wingers.  Bennett's Jewish Home party won 10% of the Knesset and those scumbag "Leftists" in Israel picked up a fraction of that.

                I'll give the Kossacks here exactly ONE GUESS as to which group Netanyahu and his Likudniks took on as partners in its coalition government while giving them the hint that it wasn't a single group of Israel's Leftmost parties NOR any of its Arab/Palestinian parties.  Yes, that's right, folks.  Mr. Bennett is now Israel's Minister of the Economy.

                "Oh, dear me!  Likud lost seats in the Knesset!  Whatever do you mean that it's a right-wing nation?"  Yep, they lost seats alright - to even more harshly-right-wing politicians.

                Your half-truths don't cut it any more, JNErebel.

                Struggle with dignity against injustice. IS there anything more honorable that a person can do?

                by Celtic Merlin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 05:42:10 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Why do you feel the need to lie about 'who my (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Mets102

                  favorite politicians' are?

                  Of course you can refute my charge by looking for a comment showing I support Bibi or his coalition as opposed to my multiple comments stating support for the Labor Party.

                  Go ahead. I can wait.

                  Is your argument so weak in its logic that you feel compelled to attempt to buttress it by this fabrication?

                  I believe it must be since you obviously know I do not support the Bibi administration and since you obviously know the Bennett plan is not adopted or official Israeli government policy.

                  "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

                  by JNEREBEL on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:07:30 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Care to address the SUBSTANCE of the comment? (4+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    callmecassandra, corvo, BradyB, poco

                    You're all bluster and arm-waving about who you do or don't love in Israeli politics, but you're not addressing the SUBSTANCE of the comment - that you were trying to blow smoke up everybody's ass about Israel and its government not being a bunch of right-wingers.  Which they are and have been for decades.  And you tried to make the case that Israel was becoming SO less conservative because the Likud lost a couple of seats.  You just happened to leave out the fact that even worse people more than replaced those "losses."  If you weren't so wrapped up in DEFENDING these right-wing douchebags ("I will do everything in my power to make sure they never get a state."), you wouldn't sound so much like one of them.

                    Your half-truth got exposed for what it is and you won't go anywhere near defending it.  I can't blame you.  It's indefensible.

                    Take a hike.

                    Struggle with dignity against injustice. IS there anything more honorable that a person can do?

                    by Celtic Merlin on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 09:52:20 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Well you get that kind of response when you lie. (0+ / 0-)

                      And since you continue to lie unabashedly there is nothing else to say to you.

                      "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

                      by JNEREBEL on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 08:21:31 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  in all fairness, CM, the only difference (3+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      Celtic Merlin, callmecassandra, poco

                      between the Israeli "left" and the Israeli "right" subsists in certain bread-and-butter economic issues.

                      When it comes to the Palestinians, there's no difference except in the choice of words for the pious public pronouncements.

                      Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

                      by corvo on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 10:31:08 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

            •  So were all Americans Republicans when Ray-Gun (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Mets102

              was elected and then followed by Bush?

              Each and everyone? Even Carter, Mondale, and Dukakis?

              Those guys were really Republicans?

              Wow, the things you learn in I/P!

              "Stay close to the candles....the staircase can be treacherous" (-8.38,-8.51)

              by JNEREBEL on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:12:20 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Israeli leaders have no problem w/ apartheid (6+ / 0-)

    They're threatened by people calling Israel's policy towards the Palestinians what it is, but not by the reality of that policy.

    It doesn't help that Israel was always close to South Africa: the Zionists and the Boers shared a worldview of an embattled minority with a God-given right to the land surrounded and massively outnumbered by hostiles that only either domination or extermination could protect them from.

    Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

    by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 10:43:05 AM PDT

    •  One right, one wrong (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JNEREBEL

      "the Zionists and the Boers shared a worldview of an embattled minority with a God-given right to the land surrounded and massively outnumbered by hostiles that only either domination or extermination could protect them from."

      I'm Jewish, but I think it's crazy to base decisions about property rights on religious claims.  If anyone thinks they have a God-given claim to certain land, I say "Prove it -- Show me the deed that God gave you."

      But, unfortunately, it is a proven fact that Israel is surrounded by hostile people who seek Israel's destruction.  Arab counties have repeatedly attacked Israel, starting with the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.  That is why Israel is so insistent that any peace agreement with the Palestinians has to guarantee Israel's security.

      •  US, IDF, nukes guarantee Israeli security (4+ / 0-)

        The obsession with security has not kept pace with history.  It's not 1948 anymore.  Israel is not just a bunch of impoverished kibbutzes full of European shopkeepers and intellectuals fresh off the boat with only a handful of WWI-era weapons to defend against the Arab hordes.  Israel certainly isn't a giant shtetl or ghetto with no weapons and the Cossacks or the Wehrmacht beating down the door.  Israel defeated Arab armies twice more while again being outnumbered and outgunned by contemporary Soviet hardware.  After the US, they're overwhelmingly the Middle East's most powerful military and the region's only nuclear power.

        The argument that Israel needs promises from anyone is absurd.  The argument that Israel needs promises from people whose lives are entirely circumscribed by Israeli military power is doubly absurd.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:30:26 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  They made separate peace deals (0+ / 0-)

        with Egypt and Jordan. So they are lying when they say that they cannot deal now. They will deal with Palestine when the right forces align. This is a step in that direction.

        Back off, man. I'm a logician.—GOPBusters™

        by Mokurai on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:44:31 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Israel Is Already There - (6+ / 0-)

    They laughed at Jimmy Carter, but he was speaking truth to power. What else would you call an occupation that has lasted almost 50 years, where one is subject to constant security checks, where one cannot move freely or work or worship? And where a wall is constructed to reinforce it all.

    http://www.amazon.com/...

  •  Pretty much sums it up (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Karl Rover, artmartin, SCFrog, Black Mare

    Israel is on the brink of permanently losing the PR "war" it has spent decades fighting to "win."  

    Once it becomes clear (and an acceptable meme) that opposing the Israeli military occupation of Palestinian areas is immoral, and NOT "anti-Semitic," the fight will have been lost.  And Israel is essentially pushing the entire world into that position.  

    It has clearly lost the "underdog" role, and now it is on the verge of permanently being cast as a racist bully state, not unlike South Africa became before losing international support.

  •  becoming an "apartheid state"? (11+ / 0-)

    It's already been there for decades.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:43:56 AM PDT

  •  I remember back in college (6+ / 0-)

    asking a Palestinian classmate whether or not he thought peace could be achieved through negotiations. His response: "Asking the Palestinians to talk to the Israelis is like asking a rape victim to talk to their rapist." I, well, was at a loss for words.

    Still am.

    "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

    by just another vet on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:16:29 PM PDT

  •  It's sad, but (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Celtic Merlin

    it's actually crossing my mind that Obama might do it. I don't think he will, in this case, but he has a track record of firing people when the right wing attacks them:  Shirley Sherrod, Van Jones, etc.

    Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:15:40 PM PDT

  •  It is now an apartheid state (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SCFrog, corvo, poco, Pale Jenova

    There is no doubt that has been the intention for years. Just look at the map of "WestBankustan" It's like swiss cheeze, created with the intention of allowing no viable Palastinian state, all the while robbing all the best land for housing, crops and water.

    Shame on Israel and their defenders. This has been a 50 year long war crime.

    This Rover crossed over.. Willie Nelson, written by Dorothy Fields

    by Karl Rover on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:21:11 PM PDT

  •  Hey, Bill-- (0+ / 0-)

    Blow me, you monstrous, bloodthirsty fraud, you silly, stupid chickenhawk motherfker who plays army man with the children of people who are so much better than you are, and who would feed innocent civilians in lands you will never visit into your own personal meatgrinder to service your semi-annual martial erection.

    Sure once I was young and impulsive, I wore every conceivable pin. Even went to socialist meetings, learned all the old union hymns. Ah, but I've grown older and wiser. And that's why I'm turning you in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u52Oz-54VYw

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:42:26 PM PDT

  •  Let's face it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    corvo, poco

    1. The 2-state solution is dead (a Palestinian state is no longer viable given the massive illegal settlements and appropriation of water resources in the Palestinian Territories)

    2. The 1-state solution is unacceptable, because it would be either a Jewish state founded on apartheid or a democratic state which could no longer be a Jewish state.

    The present situation suits Israel just fine: Because as long as the Palestinian territories are not annexed by Israel the Palestinians have no rights, and as long as the Palestinian territories are militarily occupied Israel can continue its expansion of its illegal settlements.

    No wonder there is no progress with the Peace Process, it will never be allowed to happen.

    Even Kerry seems to have come to realize this...

    We're shocked by a naked nipple, but not by naked aggression.

    by Lepanto on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:07:17 PM PDT

  •  John Kerry and Cliven Bundy ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... are being reviled for essentially the same reason - for saying what is REALLY on their minds instead of looking for politically-correct, dog-whistle words and phrases to convey the same meaning.  Bundy, in all probability, simply lacks the vocabulary.  Not sure what Kerry's excuse is here - frustration (and who could blame him for THAT)?

    The Conservative movement in the US absolutely despises the WORD "apartheid".  Its PRACTICE, however ... maybe not so much.

    OF COURSE the New Right is wrong - but that doesn't make WRONG the new RIGHT!

    by mstaggerlee on Wed Apr 30, 2014 at 09:07:44 AM PDT

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