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I'm a long time reader here. Offered a couple of posts several years ago but decided there were too many of you who had more to say and said it better. So...I'm a reader.

But today, I want to report an incident my wife and I were involved in. This incident woke me up and made me realize it wasn't enough to just be a reader.

So, I would like to report on this incident and ask for your help...

Anyway...here goes.

De Ann and I have been on the road for the last 10+ days visiting our son and his new fiance' in PA and De Ann's folks in the great Hannibal-Quincy area. We left PA this past Mon AM headed back to NE MO for a final hello/goodbye and then home.

Well...the drive Mon across the great American Heartland was tiring and after 10 hrs and maneuvering through Indianapolis during rush hour and a severe thunderstorm...we said enough and took an exit about 15 miles outside Indy into what appeared a typical Hoosier town, Brownsburg. It might be typical Hoosier, but it turned out very untypical for our tastes.

We checked into one of those nice hotel/motel chains and were surprised to find a Steak 'n Shake right next door. By God, hadn't been in a S 'n S in a long time and we were in the mood for some good junk food! I had visions of a triple damned burger and chocolate shake - heavy on the chocolate please. So...settle in to the room and walk across to the Steak 'n Shake we did go.

Big crowd, understaffed, wait to be seated...but who cares? Let's get to a table and get started on those shakes! It didn't take long...we were seated, gave the waitress our order and the shakes appeared with the burgers to follow shortly. Then, our bucolic evening changed. I looked up to see a young man - 20's - walk in the joint and head back through the tables towards the restroom. He was all in white - white shorts, white T, white flat-billed hat (which I must admit to loathing). But what I loathed much more was the black holster that contained a black 9mm that was strapped firmly around his waist. My mind didn't grasp the scene for a brief moment...cop? security guard? what the hell? And then it hit me right between the eyes. This punk was exercising his 2nd Amendment rights in an open-carry state.

As he strolled...and he really did have a little spring in his step...past the tables, several people noticed and there were concerned looks on their faces. De Ann's back was to him and I told her, "this kid is carrying a gun." As he walked past the table...I told De Ann we needed to find out what the hell was going on. I walked around to the counter and asked a young waiter if they allowed open-carry firearms in their establishment. He replied with a question..."Does someone have gun?" I said yes, he said he would get the manager.

By the time the young, female manager arrived...the tough-guy who was "packing" had finished in the restroom and had sat down at the counter right next to where I was standing. The manager looked at me and said, "Sir, as long as a person has an open-carry permit, we do allow him in here. He has the right to protect himself." I don't think my head actually exploded, but it felt like it. I simply replied to her, "You've got to be kidding me!" I certainly didn't want to admit to her that it was good to know that you need protection in Steak 'n Shake...

She turned to the kid and queried, "You do have a permit?" This is exactly what the kid wanted. "You bet" says he and pulls out his wallet and hands it to the manager. She takes it and, says "OK" and then, wait for it, said: "I'm sorry about this." My head did explode. There was gray matter flying everywhere. I had left this dimension. I'm sorry about this! Are you kidding me? What was she sorry about? Sorry that Wyatt Earp hadn't had a chance to squeeze off a few rounds yet? I'm sorry about this! She didn't really say that did she?

So, with a smug look on his face, he wheeled around on his stool and offered me his permit for my inspection. I demurred, explaining to him that I didn't care about the license, I simply wanted to know if he really thought it necessary to have a gun strapped to his waist in a public place full of children and old people? He looked straight ahead, slight smile on his face and answered, "Yeah." I asked again pointing at his gun, "Is this really necessary?" Again, "Yeah." I stood there by him for a couple of seconds, shaking my head, and just said, "Really...Really." He was so happy and pleased with himself - on the other hand, it made me want to puke all over his angelic white garments - especially that damned flat-billed piece of crap hat!

I turned around and walked back to the table where De Ann was now standing and said let's get the hell out of here. Our waitress was standing there and we apologized to her and told her to cancel our order, we didn't eat in restaurants that allowed people to carry guns - and we walked out.

And by the way...the little manager who was so sorry to hassle Doc Holliday...never, not once, not even using ESP, apologized to us for being uncomfortable in her little pathetic version of Dodge City. To hell with her and to hell with Steak n' Shake.

You know friends...while this little punk was exercising his 2nd Amendment rights...De Ann asked a pretty good question. What about our rights? Does the 2nd Amendment trump our rights to not be terrorized by some gun worshipping fanatic?

I've had it. I've gotten fat and lazy living in a civilized area of the country where most people share the same views as I. I've turned into a cocktail party liberal...which is another word for a major league pussy. That's over. I'm going after Steak 'n Shake and every other establishment that allows open-carry...and I'm asking for your help. I called their corporate office this AM and related this story to the head of customer relations. I asked him if he cared and he basically said, "you're damned right we care if enough unhappy people let us know."

So, I'm asking for you help. I'm pleading for your help. Don't be a cocktail party liberal...and for my conservative friends who do not approve of open-carry, I appeal to you as well. Please email S'nS at:

http://www.customerpulse.net:8080/...

And do some research...find out who allows open-carry and get in touch with them...I signed a petition directed at Target and I will not set foot in their store as long as they allow this madness.

And do something else...please. Pass this message to all of your friends and ask them to demand an end to this. Ask them to boycott.

There are more of us than them...we forget that too often. There are more of us - they have just been louder. Well damn it! Get loud! Please!

Originally posted to sbright50 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 11:33 AM PDT.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Bravo! (14+ / 0-)

    I think you handled it well. You did exactly what I would want to do in such a situation, in effect saying: "It's your privilege to welcome these people, but I'm not staying if you do."

    That's the vaunted 'market forces' at work. I don't think restaurants are eager to lose customers for the sake of making open-carry types feel comfortable.

    "The smartest man in the room is not always right." -Richard Holbrooke

    by Demi Moaned on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 11:46:07 AM PDT

  •  I'm so sorry that this happened (9+ / 0-)

    to you. I will never understand the madness of these OC nuts.

    Good on you for stepping up and kicking your MLP label to the curb. I'll email and call. P

    “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

    by weezilgirl on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 11:46:45 AM PDT

  •  Republicans Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday Forbade (8+ / 0-)

    any carrying of arms within town limits wherever they were lawmen, as was common in the old West after the Civil War per a number of diaries and comments about it on this site. You had to check your weapons when you came into town, till you were leaving. I'm pretty sure they also included knives and swords etc. and not just guns.

    That might be useful to tell Steak & Shake.

    I wonder if the Court would uphold a weapon-check by businesses? Seems like it'd be a real good thing for bars and television cable stores.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 12:00:09 PM PDT

  •  Thank you for this information; I just crossed (12+ / 0-)

    S&S off my list of places to patronize.  If I want the Hollywood Old West, I will go to a themed restaurant.

    My concern for the young chap with the gun is to know how much training he has had with the 9mm.  1 day?  2 days?  Maybe he had pulled a hitch or two in the military or was a LEO?  After all, if a bad guy did try to make off with a steak or shake, I may be in this guy's crossfire.  For that matter, since I take it he was anticipating trouble, did he even bother to try to scope out who was where so if it did get neckdeep, as they used to say, he would know where the noncombatants were so he does not take out a kid or a mom by mistake?

    Or is he like the poor guy in Las Vegas who was executed as soon as he displayed his weapon?  IMHO, and I am an old guy and somewhat conservative in my view on gunfights involving my and my family, it seems OC is the most idiotic idea I have seen.  If I am a bad guy, the first thing I am going to do in a situation where I am going to crime and dash, I am going to shoot all the OC people to start with an increase my arsenal and maybe even upgrade.

    I note that bad guys are getting smarter.  I notice more reports of people being relieved of their firearms outside of shooting ranges.  I guess it is the Willy Sutton rule.  If you wish to steal guns, then I guess shooting ranges would be a good choice.  So far, not a single example of a gun owner deciding to shoot it out because, in the cases where I have read, the bad guy already had the drop on the gun owner (which is the best case scenario for the gun guy.  The worst is a round through your brain case)

    (Disclaimer: I own collect and shoot guns, just not in crowded restaurants)

  •  You did the right thing. (8+ / 0-)

    I will not go into an establishment where there are civilians (e.g. non-LEO or security guards) displaying guns.

    If I see a gun displayed, I will do the same thing that you did -- call the manager and ask if he is happy with that. If he is, I will explain why I will no longer patronize the establishment, will ask for his superior's name and contact info so that I can inform them, and then will leave.

    Here's the thing: they may have a permit and be in an Open Carry state, Second Amendment, and all that.

    So what? The restaurant or business establishment is still private property, and they can set the rules for their own business.

    You have a First Amendment right to stand out on the sidewalk with a bullhorn and preach to the world about whatever religious or political beliefs you hold. But they wouldn't let you come inside and bother their patrons with it, with or without your bullhorn.

    In fact, if you exercised your First Amendment right to observe that, in your opinion, only little boys worried about their own manhood needed to strap on an iron penis substitute and swagger around to show everyone, they (and he) might take issue with that, too.

    I wouldn't actually suggest that observation, though, although I personally think its true. The point is, though, that YOU have every right NOT to be terrorized, and the establishment CAN control it. If they don't want to, vote with your feet and wallet, and make sure they understand why.

    If enough people do this, businesses WILL get the message.

    "I believe that some fine day, the children of Abraham
    will lay down their swords forever in Jerusalem."

    by Ducktape on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 12:10:59 PM PDT

  •  Snappy comebacks for open carry nuts (8+ / 0-)

    He holds out his permit to you to see.  You politely decline and choose from one of the following phrases:

    "I'm sorry the world is so scary to you."

    "It must be hard to live in fear all the time."

    "I think I just saw a two guys robbing a bank two doors down."

    "Nice hat."

    "Be careful not to shoot your dick off."

    "You know what they say, the bigger the gun, the smaller the...brain."

    "Enjoy being you."

    Feel free to add your own.

    I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

    by coquiero on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 12:23:58 PM PDT

    •  How about not saying anything at all, and just (4+ / 0-)

      leaving?  Do you really care to be a possible gun violence victim/statistic and jeopardize not only you, but your entire family and friends, as well as other innocent bystanders??  

      Is it worth being a smart ass to a person you know nothing about, holding a lethal weapon?

      I didn't think so.

      Be safe, and smart out there.

      “My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there." - Rumi

      by LamontCranston on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:54:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That's the point of open carry - intimidation (3+ / 0-)

        No one knows if the guy with the gun on his hip is a psychopath or just an asshole, and no one wants to find out.  People just scurry away or eat their steaks and shakes full of anxiety, hoping that the guy is just an asshole.

        They carry the gun on their hip so that people will leave them alone, not say anything, not do anything, and really let them do whatever the fuck they want.

        If this country's legislators are so in the pocket of the NRA, and some of the populace have become so dazzled and pulled in by their propaganda, then the only thing we have left is social pressure.

        Making them feel silly; pointing and laughing can be a very effective tool.

        I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

        by coquiero on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 08:10:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I carry a gun (7+ / 0-)

    I live in Texas, where handguns can be carried only if they are concealed, but even if open carry becomes legal in this state, I will still conceal the gun, as a matter of courtesy.  Guns make people uncomfortable, and I think it would be rude to go around with one strapped to my hip where people can see it.

    Also, wearing a gun openly is provocative, a little like having a chip on your shoulder.  The man you describe in your story is looking for trouble, and he just might find it.

    So as a matter of politeness, and as a matter or prudence, I think open carry is a bad idea.

    There is one part of your argument that I take exception to.  You suggest it is absurd to carry a gun in a place like Steak ‘n’ Shake.  Those of us who carry guns do not evaluate whether we are going to need a gun at this or that place of business.  We put the gun on just before leaving home, regardless of where we are going, the only exception being if we are going to a place where guns are forbidden, even with a license, such as the Post Office, a hospital, a school, etc. While some situations might seem to call for carrying a gun more than others, there is really no telling where or when a gun might be needed.

    I suspect that you are opposed to carrying guns period, regardless of whether they are concealed or carried openly.  I understand that point of view, though I obviously do not share it.  But for those of us who do carry a gun, leaving it at home just because we are going to a nice family restaurant like Steak ‘n’ Shake does not make much sense.

    •  Carrying weapons into public places makes no sense (13+ / 0-)

      because there is no way you can defend yourself

      against stupid people or

      against your own stupidity

      Your philosophy aside, your gun, concealed or not, does not make me feel safer in the least.

      •  Then tell the cops that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ER Doc, Justanothernyer, 43north

        there's no reason for them to carry weapons.

        222 house republicans support the Ryan budget that would convert Medicare to a premium-support program. In other words, they want to repeal Medicare and replace it with a system that works just like Obamacare.

        by happymisanthropy on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 03:53:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  hmmm... (0+ / 0-)

        http://en.wikipedia.org/...

        I'll save you the burden of reading:

        The law had been campaigned for by Suzanna Hupp, who was present at the time of the shooting where both of her parents were shot and killed. She later expressed regret about deciding to leave her gun in her car lest she risk possibly running afoul of the state's concealed weapons laws; during the shootings, she reached for her weapon but then remembered that it was "a hundred feet away in my car."[22]
    •  As long as you are thoroughly trained in its use (5+ / 0-)

      I guess the rest of us are somewhat 'safe'.  But what IF something happens and you open fire?  What IF you don't shoot the bad guy but some bystander?  And why carry all the time?  If you're LEO then I get that, and personally I can understand maybe keeping one in your car in case of a break down somewhere dangerous, but I don't understand the need to carry all the time.

      I don't want to live in a world where its necessary to always be armed, and I don't think the majority of Americans do either.

      As for the young man looking for trouble - again, how many innocents might be killed while a good guy tries to subdue him?

      •  One thing leads to another (5+ / 0-)

        Before Texas allowed for concealed handguns, I used to worry about my car breaking down while driving home late at night on dark stretches of road.  This was especially so before we all started carrying cell phones.  So, when it became legal, I got a license thinking I would just keep the gun in my glove compartment.

        Then there were a few times where I felt uneasy about crossing a dark, deserted parking lot.  And so I figured I might as well have the gun with me in such situations.

        After a while, I got so used to having a gun, it no longer seemed like a big deal to carry it, and so I just started wearing it everywhere.

        I understand your concerns about the what-ifs.  When I first started studying for my concealed handgun course, I bought a book on the subject.  I became terrified by all the things that might go wrong according to the book:  I might get shot trying to defend myself; I might shoot an innocent bystander; I might be convicted of murder by an unsympathetic jury; I might be sued for crippling or killing someone.  I learned not to read the book just before bedtime, because it would give me insomnia for hours.

        But in the end, I said to myself, “Well, I’ll just get the gun for my glove compartment.”  And so I bought the gun, took the course, and got the license. And then one thing led to another.

  •  I just sent an email to the Steak 'n Shake folks- (8+ / 0-)

    My parents had their first date at a Steak 'n Shake in the '40s--- I grew up with trips to SnS as one of the highlights of canoe trips in the Ozarks. I have very fond memories of them, and though I live outside of SnS territory now, we still sometimes eat there when we go back to visit family. All of which I told the SnS folks, and said I won't set foot in one again, until they ban open carry in their restaurants.

    Thanks for the way you handled the situation, sbright50, and for your diary. Open carry is all about power and intimidation; the current situation won't change until reasonable people make their voices heard, and this is one more drop in the bucket of reasonable voices….

  •  I've Just Contacted Steak 'n Shake (6+ / 0-)

    Thanks for the link.

    I gave them the link to this post and told them of my lifetime of patronage (I'm 65) which just ended until I learn that they ban open carry in their restaurants.  

    "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

    by LeftOfYou on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 12:35:39 PM PDT

  •  I think (5+ / 0-)

    Any public place, place of business, etc that allows carrying a gun around on the premises should have to post a sign warning same.  We do it with other things like warnings on cigarettes.  Ill be willing to bet that many restaurants will change their tunes since the vast majority of Americans WANT regulation and those of us with kids would never knowingly eat in an establishment that put kids in such proximity.  In fact, even if I didnt have kids I would eat there - why should I?  I have enough to worry about.

  •  It's Indiana. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy, ER Doc

    That is the way things are done here.  Not too many people "open" carry, but one heckova lot of people carry concealed, or have a firearm in their car or home.

    Obviously, the young man you describe as a "punk" is a resident and a license holder.  You are a guest in the state.

    Next time, fly or stay home.  We won't miss you.

  •  Problem is that the guy got exactly what he wanted (7+ / 0-)

    I'm not sure how to avoid it, but he got what he was looking for--a reaction.

    It's the 21st century equivalent of flashing--some fool waving his pseudo-genitalia around looking to freak people out.

    The crucial difference is that flashing is illegal AND actual genitalia aren't as likely to cause bodily harm to innocent bystanders.

    I don't know any other way to handle this situation other than what you did, though. Leave quietly and then call 911 and say there's a man with a gun at the restaurant?

    And as for the manager's response--what was Mr. Gun Toter protecting himself from, the waitress? Heart disease?

    It's all so very, very stupid.

  •  A quick "search and replace..." (10+ / 0-)

    ...would change this into a Redstate diary about encountering an openly gay couple in public, or about an African-American daring to eat at a restaurant.

    Diarist: Listen to yourself. You don't sound good.

    You were in a state where it's legal to carry openly, in a business that had no objection to it, and you decided to make a scene.
    Who's the problem here?

    Things are more like they are now than they've ever been before...

    by Tom Seaview on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 02:27:58 PM PDT

  •  sbright you did a very good job of describing (7+ / 0-)

    the situation, unfortunately it didn't show you in too good a light. You made a scene and were disruptive because you disagreed with someone. You and I have no idea who that young guy is or why he chose to carry a handgun, and frankly it's none of our business. Most states allow open carry, maybe you should research which ones and avoid them, or maybe just lighten up. Accosting people in restaurants is bad form.

    Instead of getting all worked up you could have enjoyed a shake and a burger after your long drive.

    I see people around here carrying, I don't have conniption fits when I see them. I assume many more are conceal carrying. I actually feel safer knowing those kind of people are around.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 03:21:58 PM PDT

  •  you're being kinder than I was, ban nock (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Boris49, ER Doc, ban nock, DavidMS, 43north

    Diarist decided he needed to be an obnoxious jerk. Good for him.

    If Steak and Shake didn't have such sorry service locally I'd go eat there as a counter-protest.

    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

    by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 04:08:50 PM PDT

    •  You should. Go eat and eat and eat (6+ / 0-)

      That'll show people who don't want people in stupid hats to be open carrying in inappropriate situations.

      Eat steak and drink milkshakes for freedom.  Just like Sarah Palin.

      Diarist did what any right minded American should do.  Refuse to patronize businesses that allow guns in their restaurants.

      Congress may be full of fools and in the pockets in the NRA, but we can apply pressure the good old fashioned way.  Through refusing to do business there.

      Go eat to counterprotest.  Go on.

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 04:51:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  There are better restaurants around (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        LamontCranston, ER Doc, 43north

        altho SnS is cheaper than McD's. Or Sonic.

        LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

        by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:27:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  But what about freedom??? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          i saw an old tree today

          I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

          by coquiero on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:30:12 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm in Texas, remember? We don't have Open (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ER Doc, DavidMS, 43north, Kasoru

            Carry for handguns here.

            More to the point: diarist caused an unnecessary scene based on DIARIST'S PREJUDICE. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else.

            Imagine demanding a black person or a gay person be excluded from a business to gain your patronage. What would that make you? Or the business that let you have your way?

            LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

            by BlackSheep1 on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:32:20 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Freedom knows no state lines. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              a2nite, i saw an old tree today

              If you love freedom, you will find yourself a Steaks n' Shakes and dig in, no matter what state you live in.

              I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

              by coquiero on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:54:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Never heard of them but if the're that widespread (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                coquiero, a2nite, sbright50

                Damn straight I'll email. More value. : )

              •  What about not behaving like a jerk? (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Kasoru

                Diarist had some kind of issue with this kid's hat, and then some kind of issue with his white clothes, and some kind of issue with the way the kid walked.

                Had diarist merely accosted him for that, would you be backing the diarist?

                Or are you so sure that the kid's mere possession of a firearm worn in a lawfully-allowed fashion in public makes it okay to harass that kid, because YOU share that prejudice?

                LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

                by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:34:14 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You're very oppressed (2+ / 0-)

                  The kid in the white hat is really just like Rosa Parks, isn't he?

                  Thanks for fighting for freedom and justice in America.  Hopefully someday I can watch an American Experience about you and your friend in the white hat.  I just saw the one about the Freedom Riders the other day, it was great.

                  I kept thinking about how your plight as a gun owner who wants to tote around families and children is just like those brave riders of the bus who were hauled out and almost beaten to death because they dared sit in a section for white people.

                  The guy in the white hat just wants the same freedom to sit, right?  Without being hauled out into the street and beaten bloody.

                  Oh, right.  He wasn't beaten.  He was asked (oh, sorry, accosted) for his license to be sure that he was following the law.

                  Huh.

                  I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                  by coquiero on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 07:51:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  wow. such projection on your part. (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Kasoru

                    The kid was happy. The kid was buying a meal. The kid was not bothering the OP in any way shape form or fashion -- o, wait. The kid was behaving in a lawful manner but the OP took offense to the kid's very presence in an eatery.

                    The OP was a jerk to the kid, to the waiter, and to the manager. Good for the OP if that made his fee-fees hurt less.

                    Yeah, I could start adopting the same tone and manners you use toward me, but you know what?

                    I'm too old to act like that. So, CHEERS, coquiero.

                    LBJ, Van Cliburn, Ike, Wendy Davis, Lady Bird, Ann Richards, Barbara Jordan, Molly Ivins, Sully Sullenburger, Drew Brees: Texas is NO Bush League!

                    by BlackSheep1 on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 08:23:14 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Open Carry is intimidation, plain and simple (3+ / 0-)

                      If you can't admit that, then you're not even in this conversation.  Hence my tone.

                      And the OP was as lawful as the gun toter, so I'm not really sure what your point is.  They were both following the law in what was a peaceful exchange.

                      You're the one projecting onto the OP.  He was accosting, he was being a jerk, he was making a scene...

                      NRA now, NRA forevah...

                      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

                      by coquiero on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 08:31:51 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  What about common sense? If you want to trade (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            BlackSheep1

            words with a stranger carrying an obvious lethal weapon, then go for it "Dirty Harry".  Just don't do it when there are other innocent bystanders there to take a possible bullet for your "freedom" issues if you chose to excercise them.

            Don't confuse your "freedom" with placing others in peril.  

            Geesh.

            “My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there." - Rumi

            by LamontCranston on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 06:08:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  well done sbright50... (5+ / 0-)

    we don't need to deal with such foolishness in CA.

    but I sure wouldn't take my family to a restaurant that allows open carry...I want to enjoy my meal in peace...not wondering is that a good guy with a gun or a bad guy.

    besides...their choosing to open carry pretty much proves they are a moron with a gun...probably more dangerous than the good guy or bad guy.

    gun nuts like that need to crawl back under their rocks.

    We are not broke, we are being robbed. ~Shop Kos Katalogue~

    by Glen The Plumber on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 04:35:23 PM PDT

  •  Every open carry face is a vote for gun control. (7+ / 0-)

    The 'responsible gun owner' is no longer abstract. It is in your face.

    The more guns waved in faces, the more votes for guns in their proper place and time.

    Child forgotten in car? -- Use open source E-Z Baby Saver -- Andrew Pelham, 11yo inventor E-Z Baby Saver

    by 88kathy on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 04:38:48 PM PDT

  •  Only one reason to display a weapon in public... (5+ / 0-)

    ... and that's if you intend to shoot someone.

    Ordinary folks have the right not to be threatened in public.

  •  Correction of a common misconception (9+ / 0-)

    The Second Amendment does not give anyone the right to carry a weapon outside their residence.

    The decision to allow/disallow/restrict open or concealed carrying of a weapon is left to the individual states.

    Many gun owners truly believe that they have a Constitutional right to carry and they are wrong.  Many know they don't, and still loudly maintain that they do have that right in attempts to overpower the debate.

    We do not need to be repeating their false RW memes.

    I am a warrior for peace. And not a gentle man... Steve Mason, 1940-2005

    by Wayward Wind on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:43:28 PM PDT

  •  You did the right thing. If you are uncomfortable (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    coquiero, Catte Nappe, Joy of Fishes

    with an establishment's policy on open carry, then leave.  I know I would have, but then again, "Steak And Shake" isn't on my list of restaurants the we patronize.  In fact, we tend to go to family owned restaurants as the food is better, and for the most part, the "riff raff" that we try to avoid do not eat there.  If none are around and we are in an area we do not know (traveling), we just go to a grocery store and buy a quick ready made meal there and enjoy it back in the room.

    I would offer this suggestion though...  

    Just leave and forget trying to make a point with the gun toter as you never know just who or what they are, and what mood they are in.  Things more than likely would be "okay", but.....

    You'll be the better, and safer for it.

    Just my 2 cents.

    “My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there." - Rumi

    by LamontCranston on Thu Jun 26, 2014 at 05:49:02 PM PDT

  •  Thank you, sbright50, for having the courage (5+ / 0-)

    to speak up for sanity at Steak 'n Shake, and to share your story here.

    As for Indiana and certain attitudes toward open carry and such, remember that Wayne LaPierre and Ted Nugent, et al, were there just weeks ago (April 25-27, 2014) to spew their... well, what they regularly spew.

    Strong Attendance puts Indianapolis as Second Largest Attended NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits!

    The official attendance of 75,269 is the second LARGEST NRA Annual Meetings and Exhibits on record for the longest running shooting & hunting show in the world. With over 600 exhibitors, the exhibit hall was packed with NRA members the entire weekend, many of whom traveled from all over the country to attend the event...
    Any wagers whether or not "white hat guy" was among their audience?

    My guess is he really wanted to be there, whether or not he actually was.

    Sometimes wonder how many who post here about guns were in attendance there; and whether they would have the courage to admit it if they were.

  •  Thanks for reading what I had to say (4+ / 0-)

    but I feel the need to clarify three points:

    1) There have been several comments that maintain I made a scene and caused disruption. That is simply not true. If you read my words carefully, you should understand that I walked to the counter - I did not go charging towards it -and asked about open-carry - I did not raise my voice in asking the question. Further, by the time the manager arrived and began answering my questions, the "young man" who was armed had taken a seat where the conversation was taking place. I did not speak to him until he directed his attention towards me and offered me a look at his permit. The words I directed towards him were in no way loud or threatening. Did the tone of my voice reveal disgust? Yes. It is highly unlikely that anyone other than the workers behind the counter heard any of the conversation.

    2) Many comments have suggested that I should have simply walked out of the restaurant. Those who make this point maintain that I put people in danger by confronting someone carrying a gun. There is merit to these comments. I completely understand why some feel this way and I would not attempt to argue with them.

    3) Finally, the purpose of my post was to ask those who feel as I, that open-carry should not be allowed in a public venue, to join me and others in taking action against it. I understand that some disapprove of my characterization of the "young man" and as stated above, the method I employed to voice my displeasure in the restaurant.

    That said, I ask anyone who agrees with the philosophy I espouse to please contact Steak'n Shake and tell them enough! And don't stop there...get in touch with Home Depot and Target and ask them to join Starbucks, Chili's, Chipotle's, Jack in the Box, and others who believe that open-carry contributes to a hostile environment for the majority.

    Thank you

    •  It was clear to anyone who actually read the diary (3+ / 0-)

      that what you did was discrete and proper.

      The NRA fans just didn't want you to say anything at all.  They would rather that you just submit to their version of what America should look like, without a fuss.

      And the person who said you should just stay out of their state reminded me a whole bunch of this guy, who said something similar a long time ago:

      I blog about my daughter with autism at her website

      by coquiero on Fri Jun 27, 2014 at 10:40:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Anti-gun attitudes (0+ / 0-)

    I don't mind if others 'hate' guns.  I'm not particularly fond of them myself.  But when one of your staff douches goes off on children killed accidentally by their gun toting parents, I am appalled at the sophistry and unctuous self righteousness.  I'll break it down for you the same way I break LGBT down for churches.

    Gun accidents are terrible things.  Tragic, life destroying accidents.  Imagine being a parent who accidentally kills their own child.  Then add some 'liberal' douchebag making raucous and mocking noises about their stupidity.  Well, you do see your own worst sins most clearly in others.

    The gay church thing?  Sure, the Bible says gay sexual relations are a sin.  But, so is fornication, adultery and masturbation.  So, if you want to go off in the pulpit about sexual sins, make sure you get them all.  If you want to drop off a bag of douche about stupid, deadly, inconsiderate people, let the cell phone texters have what's coming to them.

    That little cell phone has killed more kids than any school rampage ever has.  Sure, make your point.  But remember proportionality, too.

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