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Today I woke up to an unfortunate text message.

BREAKING: Supreme Court just ruled 5-4 that some corporations can DENY their employees contraception coverage.
Ugh. Showed it to my girlfriend, took the dog to the park, and brainstormed up a couple ideas for signs.

(She later commented on her lament that she realized too late that sign would have been funnier with "Get out of our lady business".)

With that, we headed out to stand on the sidewalk outside our local Hobby Lobby (Lakewood, WA). That was a genuinely positive experience, lots of honks and waves and grins. A lady hadn't heard of anything Hobby Lobby was doing in court, and decided she'd never shop there. Score!

After a brief intermission for water, we decided operating to the letter of the law was for losers, and took our signs to the front gates of the enemy's hold. Definitely a less positive experience, filled with dirty looks and brief verbal confrontation. Though we stayed out there less than 20 minutes (opted for the sidewalk), we were approached by two women at different times. We watched one pass by, then swing her car into a spot and brake. She came to us to announce that her children wanted to go to Hobby Lobby today, and she hadn't planned on it, but she saw our signs and we were SO wrong that all of a sudden shopping there sounded like a good idea!

Nevermind that we were already THERE, she had to come to Hobby Lobby just to see our signs. She tried defending the company as having great values.
"Yes, but horrible morals," I replied.
"No, biblical morals!" she said.
"That's even worse," I said to her backside as she walked inside. Because deriving your moral code from a 2000+ year old book can't go wrong!

Another, older woman approached us saying we were just wrong.
"Hobby Lobby is great to women," she insisted.
"Unless their employees need contraception," I pointed out.
"They can get their contraception at the grocery store!" she said with a glare. That was so wrong I was actually taken aback. Yes, let's force the lowest tier of our employees to spend their own money on something everyone else has to provide. Freedom!

I'm considering going back. The religious right lives in a bubble, a protected echo chamber where any dissenting ideas or "wrongthink" is quickly shut out and the source removed. An outside perspective (I'm an atheist) could maybe help them open their minds a little?

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Comment Preferences

  •  With all those honks, People are paying (25+ / 0-)

    attention to this issue.  Hobby Lobby will take a hit on this.  I know I don't shop there any more since all this started.  

  •  last time i went to hobby lobby (16+ / 0-)

    was for a tablecloth ofr the fourth o fjuly. evertything i saw in the patriotic 4th section was made in Cina. seriously.

    Hl does not care about america-it cares about money.

    and thanks for your protest!  i have since moved to a place where there are no remotely close Hls-thankfully. but i did visit the Facebook page and left a message. many others are too. i really hope this backfires in a big way.

    •  Fine, but this really isn't about Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

      It's about five members of the Supreme Court and their inability to understand the statement, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."

      West. No further west. All sea. --Robert Grenier

      by Nicolas Fouquet on Mon Jul 07, 2014 at 05:57:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Hobby Lobby Hates Women" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    VClib, nextstep, Angryallen, Jon Says

    So this company that provides health care, dental, life insurance, a 401K, pays above the minimum wage, and provides a free clinic at their headquarters "hates" women?  This company that provides 16 of the 20 contraceptives required by the HHS (not in the ACA law) "hates" women?  Why...because their fundamentalist owners feel that 4 of the drugs are abortifacients?

    If they hate women so much, why provide an contraceptive coverage at all? Why are 70% of their employees women? Why do they pay these women above the minimum wage?

    There's no requirement in the ACA that these contraceptives are mandatory...that's an HHS directive. A few years ago there were no requirements at all.  And now, the court makes a decision based on the RFRA, a law that was passed 97-0 in the Senate, and signed by Preisdent Clinton, and all of a sudden it's an apocalypse and...oh yeah, Hobby Lobby "hates women".

    I don't care about Hobby Lobby. And frankly I have no problem with companies being required to provide whatever health care society deems necessary, since the US and the President seem intent on doubling down on this employer based health care insanity. So as long as it compiles with the law and the Constitution, I'm fine with it. But that doesn't mean I don't understand this decision...and I'm not going to go into panic mode of what it doesn't say.

    So crikey, be against this decision, that's fine. But be honest about it says. Did you even read it? You embarrassed yourself out there today. It seems to me the one who's in a closed bubble, and could benefit from an outside perspective, is you.  The question is, will you even listen to a voice that is different than you own.

    Let's see.

    Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

    by Pi Li on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 07:46:04 PM PDT

    •  A happy slave is still a slave (22+ / 0-)

      Hobby Lobby and those which believe like them want women to be subject to random pregnancy if they have the temerity to have too much fun.  They don't want this because they love life, they want this because they want women to fear sex and to be dependent on men.  If you are a man and contraception offends you you are an asshole who wants to control something that isn't yours, and the society that enables you is sick.

      •  Ugh (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        VClib, nextstep
        Hobby Lobby and those which believe like them want women to be subject to random pregnancy if they have the temerity to have too much fun.  They don't want this because they love life, they want this because they want women to fear sex and to be dependent on men.
        THEY PROVIDE 16 OF THE "REQUIRED" CONTRACEPTIVES IN THEIR INSURANCE.

        Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

        by Pi Li on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 07:57:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why is Hobby Lobby camping out in their (16+ / 0-)

          …female employees under pants?


          ___________
          Conscious evolution is a human right. Demand your rights, today!

          by Pluto on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:03:54 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  So the women for whom one of the 4 objectionable (23+ / 0-)

          methods is the best choice, too bad so sad? Can they also decide which blood pressure meds are the best choice for you based on mythical side effects they have a belief about?

          Oh for crying out loud!

          by 4mygirls on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:14:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jon Says, VClib, Dr Swig Mcjigger

            There are many, many treatments and drugs that aren't provided by insurance. Not every insurance policy covers ever possible treatment and pharmaceutical.

            If an employer doesn't provide every imaginable treatment and drug in their insurance, are the "getting between a women and her doctor"?  Are they "mandating" her health care choices?  What makes these four contraceptives unique, among all drugs and treatments, that they must be provided or else the employer hates women?

            Is there a Constitutional right to have every drug imaginable provided to you as part of your insurance plan?

            Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

            by Pi Li on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:29:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The answer is....... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              VClib

              They just hate women, donchaknow?

              /s

            •  Answer me this (5+ / 0-)

              How did a law designed to allow native Americans use of
              peyote get used in such a dissimilar manner?

              http://en.wikipedia.org/...

              The Smith decision outraged the public. Many groups came together. Both liberal (like the American Civil Liberties Union) and conservative groups (like the Traditional Values Coalition) as well as other groups such as the Christian Legal Society, the American Jewish Congress, the Baptist Joint Committee for Religious Liberty, and the National Association of Evangelicals joined forces to support RFRA, which would reinstate the Sherbert Test, overturning laws if they burden a religion.[8] The act, which was Congress's reaction to the Lyng and Smith cases, passed the House unanimously and the Senate 97 to 3 and was signed into law by U.S. President Bill Clinton.

              I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

              by Just Bob on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:15:48 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  If anyone is still reading this thread... (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Tonedevil, 4mygirls, manofthesea

                http://thinkprogress.org/...

                To achieve this outcome, Justice Samuel Alito’s opinion on behalf of a bare majority of the Court engages in a kind of legalistic bait-and-switch. It takes a law Congress enacted to serve one limited purpose, and expands that law to suit Hobby Lobby’s much more expansive purpose.

                I'm a Vietnam Era vet. I'm also an Erma Bombeck Era vet. When cussing me out and calling me names please indicate which vet you would like to respond to your world changing thoughts.

                by Just Bob on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 04:16:36 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  Yes (5+ / 0-)

              The employer is blocking the insurance companies that give those treatments  in all their packages. How much obtuse can you be. Your are justifying negating people medicine they need because someone thinks God doesn't approve IUDs???????

              Let's see what your own employer gives you and then take some cause his religion does not approve of it. Can't believe people fighting to be enslaved

            •  Being a physician myself, I will take the word (14+ / 0-)

              of this country's obstetrician/gynecologists.

              From the American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists:

              “This decision inappropriately allows employers to interfere in women’s health care decisions. All health care decisions – including decisions about contraception – should be made by a woman and her doctor, based on the patient’s needs and her current health. Her employer’s religious beliefs should not overrule her doctor’s advice.
              •  One would expect attorneys and courts (3+ / 0-)

                To accept the opinion of bona fide experts, but hey, apparently they just rewrite the rules as they go these days.

                © grover


                So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

                by grover on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 12:06:07 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean (0+ / 0-)
                “This decision inappropriately allows employers to interfere in women’s health care decisions.  All health care decisions – including decisions about contraception – should be made by a woman and her doctor, based on the patient’s needs and her current health. Her employer’s religious beliefs should not overrule her doctor’s advice.
                Hmmmm. How does this decision change that?  Is Hobby Lobby telling the doctor what treatment and medication she can prescribe her patient?  Are they telling the patient, their employee, what treatment or medicine she can have?

                A a few years ago, none of this was "required" under HHS regs...so if any employer didn't cover something under their insurance a couple years ago, they were "interfering" in their employees health care decisions?  Why if the physician prescribes treatment or medicine that isn't covered by the employees insurance at all...is that employer "interfering" with their employees health care decisions? Is the employer required to subsidise whatever health care a physician happens to prescribe?

                And the suggestion that anything in this ruling would "overrule" the advice of her doctor is absurd. Physicians are free to give whatever advice they wish, and patients are free to to follow it. Please show me anywhere the ruling says otherwise.

                I live in a country that has single payer most of the year, and I have no problem with society deciding what kind of medical care their citizenry should be provided, via whatever kind of health care system they have. What I object to is the outright and seemingly intentional misrepresentation of what this decision actually says and means.

                Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

                by Pi Li on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 06:22:57 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Since you live in a country with single payer (0+ / 0-)

                  I take it you aren't familiar with these pesky little things called co-pays, deductables, prior authorizations, and denial of service/payment letters.  If employers are allowed to carve out medical treatments and services they don't want the insurance that their employees earn through work to cover, that effectively prevents the patient from receiving the best care for their situation.  This is way more than about speech and advice from a trained professional to a client, this is about delivering appropriate care that will affect a patient's health and even their life.  

                  You mention that in the single payer system you are in "society" decides what is covered.  Well Americans decided to elect a president and a congress in 2008 that made expanding affordable healthcare access a key part of their platform.  Today, there is a front page diary that discusses how popular coverage of contraception is, so I guess you can say that "society" has decided this is what we want covered.  Hobby Lobby and SCOTUS are effectively overriding the wishes of the American people because of one powerful family's fealty to the every-sperm-is-sacred house of worship.

                  •  Right (0+ / 0-)

                    But in America, you also have the 1st Amendment and the RFRA, right?

                    I'm not saying I agree with the ruling, just recognising what the decision actually says, and the impediments, both Constitutionally and statutorily, there exist in certain aspects of expanding healthcare, especially in an employer-based system.

                    Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

                    by Pi Li on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 12:52:19 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  SCOTUS decided that the powerful entity--the (0+ / 0-)

                      employer--was entitled to a religious exemption, without consideration of the interests of the privacy and religious freedom rights of the employees, nor the government's interest in preventing unwanted pregnancies (and thus abortions and unwanted children).  Ginsburg addressed this in her dissent.  

                      As far as the RFRA, the peyote case that inspired it dealt with issues of freedom to practice religion as it pertains to oneself.  The Native Americans in this case, were using peyote during a religious ritual on themselves, not trying to compel non-tribal members to use it.  In this case the Greens, in the corporate personage of Hobby Lobby, are projecting their religion out, the primary result is to affect the lives of others.  There is no direct linkage between directing dollars, that are part of an employee's compensation, to an insurance company, that provides benefits that the employees may or may not use.  

                      The fact that HL DIRECTLY sends employee 401k dollars into stock investments of manufacturers of "religiously objectionable" contraception, to reap a profit should lead to serious questions about how sincerely held the Greens' religious beliefs are.

        •  They have no right to pick (7+ / 0-)

          and choose cause there are people out there that do need the other 4 for medical resons

    •  You're right... (8+ / 0-)

      ...in a way. That sign was definitely more of an eyecatch than a statement of truth. However, the fact remains that this company saw fit to raise a stink over something that is beneficial to women, and the Supreme Court's decision affected their lives negatively.

    •  But it's ok for hobby lobby to invest their emp... (19+ / 0-)

      But it's ok for hobby lobby to invest their employees 401ks funds into manufacturers of these same contraceptive drugs they so vehemently ,wrongly believe are abortifacients? So it's ok to make a profit on others using these drugs but not not to spend their employees wages via health insurance? Remember that employees earn their health insurance. It's not a gift from the green family. How about the fact that Hobby lobby provided these 4 drugs, among others, several years ago in their self funded health insurance plan administered by UMR? It's painfully obvious that Hobby Lobby objects to providing these drugs as a purely political move or they would have never provided them, plus the billionaire Green family gets to save a few bucks off the backs of their employees in the process so it's a win-win for them. And to your point about them being such a great, well paying employer, you might want to actually talk to some of their employees. They pay 3rd shift warehouse workers $13/hour and that's more than day shift workers get. Hardly a livable wage and below average for the area. I live a few miles from their headquarters in okc, so get some facts together before impugning the diarist and his beliefs regarding hobby lobby and their partisan power grab to discriminate against the women in their workforce. Let's not even get started on the amount of their merchandise that comes from china, a country that has dictated forced abortions.

      •  lets talk china (12+ / 0-)

        all the comments about how much Hl pays. how much do they pay their chinese workers? how many american jobs at 14 dollars were lost when they bought from china?

        yeah i want to talk about that.

        Hl doesnt care squat about workers.

      •  bluenick - the empolyees make the investments (0+ / 0-)

        with funds that belong to them, not Hobby Lobby.

        "let's talk about that" uid 92953

        by VClib on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:30:52 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Right, (5+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ichibon, Creosote, DRo, BachFan, Tonedevil

          but hobby lobby either picks the funds that are available for investment or pays a firm to do it. My point is that if these religious views are some strongly held, shouldn't hobby lobby not have mutual funds available as investment options that buy stock from manufacturers of these drugs?  I guess I wasn't exactly clear in my post what I meant by that but I don't need any explanation of how 401k's, 403b's, IRA's, pensions or any other employer sponsored investment works. I don't think it changes the point I was making.

          •  I know the investment choices in Hobby Lobby's (0+ / 0-)

            401K plan are the theme of the day but I just don't buy the notion that offering investments in an index fund or a big cap mutual fund, that has a small percentage invested in Big Pharma, is a material fact. It's inconsequential and as the Courts review other companies to see if they meet the "sincerely held religious belief" test, the investment options of the 401K plans won't be one of the qualifying metrics.

            Would people actually prefer that Hobby Lobby restrict the investment options in their 401k plan, removing all the index funds?

            "let's talk about that" uid 92953

            by VClib on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:54:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That's a fair point (4+ / 0-)

              I don't know how I would feel about them liming investment options for 401ks but it would legitimize some of the rhetoric they spew, IMO. It goes along way when someone applies their "deeply held beliefs" equally across all parts of their business. Just kind of smacks of politics  they take certain types of contraception coverage all the way to SCOTUS yet allow investment options that invest in big pharma companies that manufacture said contraceptives.  I think I'm just pissed that  the  conservative led Supreme Court  contorted this into something that  allows hobby lobby to get away with this shit. I had some hope this court would rule correctly on today, but again I'm let down.

              It's a for profit company, hobby lobby's religion is money. If they wanted it to be something different they should organize as a non-profit and return any profits they make to the communities they are in.  

            •  A "deeply held belief" means choosing mutual funds (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              bluenick, BachFan, 4mygirls, Tonedevil

              that exclude investments in activities that violate your beliefs.

              There are at least two major funds that are designed to exclude precisely the Pharma investments in question here. Why doesn't Hobby Lobby choose them?

              Because they are less profitable.

              IMHO, Hobby Lobby is all sounding brass and tinkling cymbals;  and their "deeply held belief" only applies in areas where it might drive cracks into the ACA.

              •  UnionMade - less profitable means less for each (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                UnionMade

                employee 401K account. Assets in 401K accounts are owned by the employees, not by Hobby Lobby. The gains and losses in the 401K accounts are borne by the employees and have no impact whatsoever on the financial standing of Hobby Lobby. This entire ruse regarding retirement plans would have some substance if Hobby Lobby had a defined benefit plan where the assets were owned by Hobby Lobby, not the employees. The theme of the day is a straw man and it doesn't matter. All parties in the lawsuit stipulated that Hobby Lobby met the sincerely held religious belief test, so that bridge has already been crossed, and the issue is mute. But it seems to be an irresistible diary topic.

                "let's talk about that" uid 92953

                by VClib on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 07:10:42 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks for the explanation, VClib. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  VClib

                  But I do have to ask, who supervises/chooses (I don't know the technical term) which mutual funds to invest the 401K money into? The employees? I bet not. I bet it's a guy hired by Hobby Lobby, and I bet his only directive is to seek the best return possible.

                  I'll grant you that it's a moot point. But in many a case there's stuff that is kept out of the courtroom, and a lot of stuff stipulated, that would enrage the ordinary person, if it were allowed in. And the Hobby Lobby case is now out of the hands of the professional jurists, and in the hands of public opinion. The public, I think, has quite different interests and priorities than the pros.

                  •  My understanding is that a professional trustee (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    UnionMade

                    picks the investment vehicles for the Hobby Lobby 401K plan. There is no doubt that Hobby Lobby management picks the trustee but it's not uncommon for the plan sponsor to remove itself from issues like investment choices. However, my guess is that companies looking for the Hobby Lobby exception will be adjusting the investment options for their 401K plans immediately.

                    "let's talk about that" uid 92953

                    by VClib on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 07:35:11 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  HL doesn't pay any better than national (13+ / 0-)

      norms.  Cashiers start at $7.25 an hour and go no higher than $10.  Department managers make average of $15.00 an hour.  Store managers about $60K.  Our local Dollar Tree offers 401(k) to their employees too.  Pretty hard to find enough to put in there on those wages though, match or no match.

      "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.: Maya Angelou

      by PsychoSavannah on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:01:06 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Actually I believe hobby lobby's minimum salary... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nextstep

        Actually I believe hobby lobby's minimum salary for any position is around $12.50, not that is a livable wage but it's much higher than $7.25. Everytime they raise it, the RWNJ Daily Oklahoman runs a story about how godly and great the Green Family is for oklahomas unskilled workers.

        •  Well, in South Carolina it's $7.25 (4+ / 0-)

          "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.: Maya Angelou

          by PsychoSavannah on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:19:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  what is it in china where their crap is made? (6+ / 0-)
          •  No it's not. (0+ / 0-)
            This increase for full-time hourly and part-time hourly employees will raise the pay of more than 17,726 employees nationwide
            •  My daughter applied for a job there (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              a2nite, Tonedevil, LiberalLoner

              last September when her husband was laid off from his job.  $7.25 to start, with opp for a raise after 90 days.  Please don't tell me what some stupid PR release says when I have personal knowledge of it being different in the actual, real world.

              "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.: Maya Angelou

              by PsychoSavannah on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 04:44:55 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So they have a national minimum wage of (0+ / 0-)

                $9.50 for pt or $14 for FT but you have some anecdotal evidence otherwise, which I don't believe . I know many people that work there and live a couple of miles from their headquarters. Also, there are many legitimate sources to find their pay data, none of which have any evidence of them paying the federal minimum wage. There is no reason to spread falsehoods about HL, they are bad enough on their own.

                •  From link above: (0+ / 0-)
                  On Monday, Hobby Lobby announced it raised wages for full-time hourly employees for the fifth year in a row. Full-time hourly employees now earn at least $14 an hour, up from $13, and part-time employees make at least $9.50 an hour, up from $9.

                  The move will raise the pay of more than 17,726 workers nationwide. The Oklahoma City retailer's new minimum wage for full-time hourly employees is almost double the national minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.

                  •  I'm not going to argue with you about (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    Tonedevil

                    this.  Maybe the manager at the local store is skimming wages.  

                    "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.: Maya Angelou

                    by PsychoSavannah on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 08:20:39 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  That's a pretty serious accusation (0+ / 0-)

                      Could it not be that you were given wrong or untrue info? I mean that is pretty rightwingish to refuse to believe facts and then accuse someone you have never met of skimming wages.

                      My whole point is that spreading bad information about hobby lobby and their pay practices makes it awfully  easy for their zealotous supporters to discredit the entire argument against them from the left.

                      I think we both agree that HL is deserving of boycott and should not impose their beliefs upon their employees. That alone is enough reason to be active in attempting to fight back against their partisan bullshit, no need to post erroneous info about them when their is plenty of factual info to fuel the fight against them.

        •  Yeah, and Okla is the reddest state out there, we (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          weezilgirl

          all know that. Reddest = Far Rightest = Cluster Fuck of Ignoramuses!!

        •  The store in Lawton (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cosette, ichibon, Tonedevil

          pays $7.25 and only has one full-time female employee.

          Oh Lord, I had forgotten about the Gaylords. What a newspaper!

          “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

          by weezilgirl on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:13:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Gotta love the (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            ichibon

            The daily jokelahoman. The Gaylord's carry water for the Greens almost everyday in that rag of a newspaper. Check out the comments on the hobby lobby article today if you want an up close look at the insanity we are up against
            in Okla.

            •  I think Gaylord, Jr. (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              ichibon, Tonedevil

              recently bought the Ryman auditorium in Nashville. I know he owned the big arena in a town close to OKC. I photographed an all gay rodeo there once. I've always wondered if the Gaylords know that the cowboys were gay. I also photographed a women's rodeo there. Now that I look back, both rodeos seems pretty extreme for the Gaylords.

              Being "right" sure makes a lot of money. I worked for an atty in OKC as a temp and part of my job was to help with the dinners/fundraisers he had for Republicans. :( I met Mr. Gaylord one night. He actually was quite a nice guy when he wasn't spouting off about Democrats.

              “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

              by weezilgirl on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:37:15 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Full time min wage at hobby lobby is now $14 as... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PsychoSavannah, nextstep

        Full time min wage at hobby lobby is now $14 as of last year and part time is $9.50. Not defending them by any means and 9.50 or $14 is hardly a livable wage, but your post is factually incorrect.

        http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/hobby-lobby-increases-full-time-hourly-employee-minimum-wage-to-14-per-hour-203012021.html

        •  How may full timers? (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          cosette, ichibon, Tonedevil

          I bet you is one per store

          •  There are plenty of reasons to (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Jon Says, ichibon

            not shop at hobby lobby. their overt religion they shove down everyone's throat and their practice of buying cheap shit from china and selling it at huge markup, among other things but the way they pay their employees is above average for retail. Doesn't excuse their other bullshit but I don't see any gain from spreading falsehoods about pay. That is somethibg I would expect over at redstate or some rightwing blog.  

             I'm not defending HL or even saying they pay a true livable wage, but try using actual facts to motivate people from buying there, not just what fits into everyone's preconceived notions about mass retailers. Spreading bad information that is patently untrue only gives rightwingers an easy target to discredit us.

    •  How much do you know about the hours (8+ / 0-)

      that Hobby Lobby offers? There are very few full-time employees at the stores. I worked at one. I got 30 hours weekly if I was lucky. No insurance for the entire group of women who worked in the store. One woman worked in the office full-time. Our manager, a man, worked full-time.

      “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

      by weezilgirl on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:04:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Where do you get this information? (7+ / 0-)

      "So this company that provides health care, dental, life insurance, a 401K, pays above the minimum wage, and provides a free clinic at their headquarters "hates" women?"

      Are you talking about the store employees? If you are, you're wrong. I keep in touch with a woman who worked for HL when I did and she  still makes minimum wage and has been there 10 years. Still not full-time. I am not talking about women who work in headquarters. These are the women who are on their feet for an 8 hour shift.

      What good is a free clinic at headquarters in OKC for a woman who works in Ft. Smith, Arkansas?

      “Listen--are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?” ― Mary Oliver

      by weezilgirl on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 09:09:29 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  IUD (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil

      is not a drug. Feel is not science. Doing lip service to those bringing theocracy .....

    •  You know.... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Pi Li, bluenick

      it wasn't until just awhile ago when I saw an interview on CNN that I realized that Hobby Lobby was not at all against contraception for women - just these 4 particular methods. I don't think I saw this fact in any of the diaries I had read earlier today. They all left me with the opinion that Hobby Lobby was not paying for any contraception at all. I guess that is one of the problems with any political blog. Inconvenient truths are omitted.

      Now, I don't necessarily support the opinion, but the fact that they will continue to provide, and have for many, many years provided, contraception for women is a rather big piece of information that I feel was unfortunately omitted previously.

      •  Organic Xhemist. Hmmm, I reme (0+ / 0-)

        Some people do not argue in good faith. Their only purpose is to disrupt and cause strife. Best to not engage them.

        by Drewid on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 10:48:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        OrganicChemist
        it wasn't until just awhile ago when I saw an interview on CNN that I realized that Hobby Lobby was not at all against contraception for women - just these 4 particular methods. I don't think I saw this fact in any of the diaries I had read earlier today. They all left me with the opinion that Hobby Lobby was not paying for any contraception at all. I guess that is one of the problems with any political blog. Inconvenient truths are omitted.
        This is kind of my point.

        Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

        by Pi Li on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 06:27:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe you missed the news.... (0+ / 0-)

          Supreme Court clarified that any contraceptives can be denied by employers based on their religious beliefs.

          http://www.dailykos.com/...

          •  I'm not sure what's news about this (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            OrganicChemist

            That's how I interpreted the decision yesterday.  I think that was pretty clear to anyone who read the decision. Though I understand the SCOTUS issuing the clarification, since there was so much sloppy reporting about this case.

            And since Hobby Lobby "hates women", I'm sure they will use this opportunity to immediately stop offering the 16 contraceptives they currently pay for (you know, the ones they offered before the ACA).

            Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

            by Pi Li on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 12:06:12 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  LMAO at your first sentence (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ichibon, Tonedevil

      I daresay the full-time Hobby Lobby employee with all those benefits you listed is a rare bird in Texas.

      So, I call bullshit on your positivity for any HL employee in a "right to work" state.
      Bet you didn't know they don't have barcodes on their Chinese crap products because they think it's the mark of the beast?

    •  Go Back & Protest Every Single Day..... (0+ / 0-)

      HL has no right interfering w/ protesters because the Supreme Court just did away w/ a protest zone buffer outside abortion clinics.  They said it interfered w/ constitutionally protected free speech & should just be considered conversation.

      So......HL should just consider protesting just having a conversation w/ those exercising their right to free speech.
      Right?  

      You bet.  Perhaps HL would like to converse about their rationale to provide insurance coverage for their male employees who want vasectomies but not to their female employees who want birth control.

       

      •  Unfortunately (4+ / 0-)

        the Supreme Court decision doesn't apply to most HL stores. They are located in large and small malls, which are private property. You can stand on the sidewalk at the entrance, which is public property, but if you stand in front of the store the owners of the mall can and probably will ask you to leave. They will no doubt call the cops if you don't. The best way to protest is through social media. Right now their Facebook page is getting slammed and they are like a cat trying to cover up its crap on a tile floor in their attempt to defend their position.

        •  Yes! Great comment. I'd disagree that the best ... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          jakedog42, a2nite

          Yes! Great comment. I'd disagree that the best way to protest is social media, only because I doubt their target demographic lives online like some of us do.

          I'm not sure what the best approach is, and holding a sign stating that Hobby Lobby hates women might have gone too far. But I still urge people to find their way to get the message out and inform, if only because I was quite surprised at how many people had no idea why we were even there. Those of us online debating the issue are a vocal minority; plenty of Americans haven't heard of this issue. Yes, it kind of relates to sex, but overcome your Puritanical roots and help spread the word. ;)

      •  I'm pretty sure it's still illegal to protest o... (4+ / 0-)

        I'm pretty sure it's still illegal to protest on private property. The sidewalk by the main road was fine, but the entrance to the store really wasn't. Even though we got the debate I wanted, I was kind of insistent that we returned to the public sidewalk before anyone caught on and police arrived. Lakewood is on Cops (the TV show) often, and their police are edgy at best. The goal was public awareness, not to provoke the beehive.

    •  Because it's actually (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tonedevil

      A matter of controlling women. Hobby Lobby could have opted not to give insurance and pay a tax. Their workers would have than been given vouchers/ incentives to purchase health care through the new state or federal exchanges. But you see, if they did that, they couldn't CONTROL those pesky females. Mr. Green is a Dominionist, and his lawsuit is just another step in the Dominionist plan to turn the US into a theocracy, just like those horrible Muslims in Iran. Same path, just different degrees of terrorism.

    •  Hobby Lobby (0+ / 0-)

      So, Hobby Lobby "provides" all these benefits?  You're saying they pay for them or they offer them?  I can't imagine they  actually pay for them.  But nice try to make the company look good.  And even if they did........

      They provide a "free" clinic at their headquarters.  Pray tell me what the heck good a "free" clinic is that is based in Oklahoma to a woman that lives and works in Kansas or Missouri?  Does Hobby Lobby pay for their airfare also?

      Did you bother to do any computations as to the $9.50 for PART TIME employees?  Figuring at a top average of 30 hours a week so that they won't be considered full time employees, that's $14, 820 gross a year.  Let's see YOU live on that.  

      The right wing trying to hold that up as being something altruistic is nothing more than garbage!

      I've already read the testimony of one lady that had to use one of th IUD's that Hobby Lobby bans because they "feel" it causes abortion.  She needed this particular one to stop massive bleeding or she'd be dead.  Are they willing to accept responsibility for such things?  

      And before you diss this president or the Congress that passed this law - don't forget this is the same plan the Republicans came up with in 1993.  It was okay with them until the left proposed it.  

  •  Thank you (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    manofthesea, Prinny Squad, ichibon

    Somethings need to be protested.

    Why yes there is a war on women and minorities.

    by karma5230 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:29:07 PM PDT

  •  Good on you guys....get that message out.... (4+ / 0-)

    there, educate the uninformed; but remember, you can only educate those that wish to be educated.  Some people prefer to just sit in the dark, it's less complicated for them.

    "A weed is a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered." Ralph Waldo Emerson

    by Yo Bubba on Mon Jun 30, 2014 at 08:33:54 PM PDT

  •  Nice work! (0+ / 0-)

    It's just depressing that we can't do anything more concrete. Jesushumpers tend to be unfazed by public pressure and their fellow zealots support them without question.

    Still, thank you for dong that.

  •  Hobby Lobby….. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ichibon, DRo, a2nite

    Hobby Lobby invests in Contraceptives, but deny them to their female employees.

    Hobby Lobby buys from China, where abortions are forced on women.

    Hobby Lobby promotes Abortion, they prevent female employees from obtaining contraceptives.

  •  Biblical principles? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DRo, BobX

    What does running your company according to "biblical principles" even mean?   Does the Bible say something about contraception?

    The religious right / tea party right are sick.

    "The real wealth of a nation consists of the contributions of its people and nature." -- Riane Eisler

    by noofsh on Tue Jul 01, 2014 at 03:28:05 AM PDT

  •  I'm considering open carrying there. Hey, I thi... (0+ / 0-)

    I'm considering open carrying there.

    Hey, I think it's silly to be scared of a person who is looking through arts and crafts, but maybe I might as well use the emotional manipulation to a good end, eh?

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