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An accused anti-Batista insurgent is blindfolded and executed by firing squad, Cuba 1956.
If we're going to be barbarians, why try to mask it?
Gotta agree with this appellate judge:
"Using drugs meant for individuals with medical needs to carry out executions is a misguided effort to mask the brutality of executions by making them look serene and beautiful — like something any one of us might experience in our final moments," U.S. 9th Circuit Court Chief Judge Alex Kozinski wrote in a dissent in the Arizona death penalty case of Joseph Rudolph Wood III.

"But executions are, in fact, brutal, savage events, and nothing the state tries to do can mask that reality. Nor should we. If we as a society want to carry out executions, we should be willing to face the fact that the state is committing a horrendous brutality on our behalf."

Kozinski revealed his views in a dissent filed Monday to an order in which the full 9th Circuit refused to review a decision of a 9th Circuit three-judge panel to put Wood's execution on hold.

Now keep in mind that Kozinski, a Reagan appointee, is pro-death penalty, and is concerned that legal challenges to drug cocktails are keeping many death-row inmates alive. Yet this makes perfect sense:
"If we as a society cannot stomach the splatter from an execution carried out by a firing squad, then we shouldn’t be carrying out executions at all."
He may be blood-thirsty enough to welcome this (and the guillotine, too, which would be his preferred method), but society might not be so tolerant. And even if they were, let people know what is really being done in their name.

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Comment Preferences

  •  He's right. It's brutal and savage. (51+ / 0-)

    Apparently that's a good thing for many Americans.  I just don't get it.  

    I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

    by I love OCD on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:19:18 PM PDT

    •  Really? (14+ / 0-)

      I'm sure you read the filth that saturates the Internet typed (often all-caps with misspellings galore) by proud Americans.  Many of our fellow citizens not only approve, I'm willing to bet that they'd buy tickets to an execution if they were available for sale.  I'm also sure some right wing media outlet would see it as a business opportunity and broadcast it pay-per-view if they were allowed.  

      •  Give it time (8+ / 0-)

        Eventually FOX News will be televising gladiatorial games.

        •  Ultimate fighting is the next step to there (7+ / 0-)

          What we do reflects out society.
            Hiding it won't change what we are. It just allows the government to make horrible mistakes in private.

          "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

          by gjohnsit on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:03:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Pay per view (4+ / 0-)

          definitely would be a money maker for awhile ,the more brutal and horrific the means of death,surely the more money sicko's would pay.Perhaps folks would become repulsed eventually by having their bloodlust satiated but I'm not sure of the depth of the appetite for depravity in the country-certainly scares me.

          'The tyranny of the ignoramuses is absolute and inescapable' A..Einstein

          by unfangus on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:12:44 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sure and buy more bombers and drones. (0+ / 0-)

            Now there's an idea.  We could pay-per-view executions and use the money to by more military hardware.  OK.  It's a snark.  Why should we pay to watch since our taxes are already putting on the show.  If we aren't proud enough to do it in public then maybe we shouldn't be doing it at all.

            A bad idea isn't responsible for those who believe it. ---Stephen Cannell

            by YellerDog on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 08:30:22 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  reminds me of Reno 911 when they won (5+ / 0-)

        a contest to witness an execution and they were all arguing over who got to go. The winners got all dressed up in evening wear when they went, I think.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:02:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Tickets, My ASS (0+ / 0-)

        Hell, they'd raffle off the chance to pull the switch if you let them!

        I actually used to joke that one day, we'd have "The Execution Channel" which would be a pay-per-view channel, where you could watch executions from the comfort of your own living room.  And for just a little extra, they'd send you a fake switch you could press at just the right moment, so that you could think you were actually pulling the switch yourself.

        IN FACT...they might even go so far as tyo make one of those devices ACTUALLY BE the one that does hit the switch, and raffle it off.

        Seriously, though, if we are GOING to do executions in this country...it should be swift.  And, to that end, there IS something to be said for the guillotine.

        Of course, my own preference would be for no death penalty...but not for the same reasons as many others have that view.

        For me, it is a matter of fact that our judicial system is not perfect, and can make mistakes.  What do you say after you execute someone and then later find out they were innocent?  OOPS???

        Sorry, OOPS doesn't cut it.  Besides...my other view says that life in prison without parole is more punishment, anyway - plus it's cheaper...fewer appeals.

    •  If executions are no longer sanitised, (12+ / 0-)

      we'll see clearly just how brutal Americans can be.

      Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

      by Dauphin on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:29:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

        •  I think that knowing is better than not knowing, (11+ / 0-)

          even when the answers may be unpleasant. Especially then.

          Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

          by Dauphin on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:36:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I agree, and I think that might be the judge's (9+ / 0-)

            point. I interpreted his comments to mean: "If you're going to engage in something as heinous as this, man up and acknowledge it for what it is. Don't sugarcoat it. You're not "putting a person to sleep," you're killing him.

            For the record, I am so against the death penalty. But if a state is going to have the death penalty, the execution should be as quick and painless as possible to the person whose life is being taken and as hideous as possible to the citizens of the state. And I would go so far as to say that the foreman of the jury who voted the death penalty should be the one to perform the execution and the rest of the jurors should be required to attend and participate in the post-execution procedures.

            And it should be a requirement that all members of the jury selection pool should be required to tour an abattoir before the jury selection process starts . . .

            IMHO.

            "Conservatives seem to believe that the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less." -- E.J. Dionne

            by lartwielder on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:00:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, the judge seems like he wants to be (5+ / 0-)

              honest about executions.

              Where are all the jobs, Boehner?

              by Dirtandiron on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:58:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  The smell might get them. (4+ / 0-)

              I had been thinking that video would work in lieu of an actual human execution, but that might be a rare event. You've got me thinking that even animal slaughter would suffice when the witnesses can't get the smell out of their mind.

              -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

              by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:19:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Yea, verily! (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                qofdisks, JPax

                The smell of death never leaves.

                And I don't mean this in a bad or cavalier way . . . I grew up on a farm aeons ago . . . we grew the veggies we ate . . . and the beef, pork, chicken, lamb and goose we ate. It's one thing to go to the grocery and buy a cut-to-order filet mignon or skinless and boneless chicken breasts. It's something else entirely to spend time every day feeding and grooming next year's steaks . . . and something else again to look them in the eye when you pull the trigger . . .

                But I am a Vietnam vet. There were times when it was much more personal than who was going to have whom to eat next spring. It was who was going to live to see next spring. At the time, the choice is a no-brainer, and one does what one needs to do to be the one to see next spring. The niceties don't matter . . . There are no niceties in the moment. Not so much, later . . .

                Look around you. Look closely at the WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, Afghanistan, Panama . . . whatever vets you know. Look very closely at them. It won't be hard to tell the ones who have killed someone . . .  or who has had to drag a buddy to a medivac, knowing down deep inside that it was a futile effort. Or who, by the roll of the dice, was dragged to the medivac and survived the trip.

                This went way past where I had intended it to, but there is a point to the rant. No one who has not faced death personally, who has not been personally responsible for the death of another living being has any clue of what it is about and is not qualified to have an opinion.

                And I don't include hunters in this list, unless s/he hasa been a sniper and who has had to police up the scene afterward and who has "counted coup."

                I've probably said way too much, but until you've been there and gotten the tee shirt, you don't have a clue.

                "Conservatives seem to believe that the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less." -- E.J. Dionne

                by lartwielder on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 01:21:03 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I Could NEVER Serve On A Death Penalty Case (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              lorimakesquilts

              They would eliminate me faster than you could fart and say Mississippi, when I truthfully told the DA he'd better have his A Triplr Plus game on if he wants a death penalty vote from ME.

              I would honestly tell him I will latch onto even the smallest shred of doubt before I'll vote to convict in a death penalty case.

        •  Then maybe, just maybe we'll ban the death penalty (8+ / 0-)

          The criminal justice system is broken from beginning to end.

          The US has more prison inmates than any other country.  More than China, with it's 1.3 billion people.  

          The US has a higher incarceration rate than any other country.  Higher than Iran.  Higher than... (name the country).

          Yet those who can afford the top lawyers go free.

          Those whose skin isn't white go to jail -- with long sentences.
          What is it?  A third of all black men in this country will have spent time in jail?

          NY's (stop and frisk) racial profiling has been considered legal for years.

          And possessing marijuana is still illegal.  Why is that not something left up to the states?

          Corporations, like GEO, that run some state prisons have incentives to encourage acting up in prison and afterwards.  GEO promises it's shareholders high recidivism rates.  And they are required by Governors, like Jack Scott to cut expenses -- even so far as to serve maggot infested food.

          Who can be against mandatory sentencing?  Certainly no Congress person.  So mandatory sentences have grown longer and longer.

          Personally, as bad as the death penalty is, I'd prefer to see Congress ban private prisons.  Although our current Supreme Court would probably overturn either measure.

          Even Democrats can be asses. Look at Rahm Emanuel.

          by Helpless on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:14:40 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Many Americans would love that (8+ / 0-)

        They would watch nightly executions on TV and talk about them next day. The advertizing value of that timeslot would be astronomical.

        American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

        by atana on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:44:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Wish you were wrong, (4+ / 0-)

          but I'm fairly certain that you are not....

        •  I'm for (0+ / 0-)

          bringing it all out into the open.

          It's easy to be glib about an abstract concept but something else entirely if you have to see it in all its ugly realness.  Let parents complain about their kids being able to get access to the grotesque.  Let neighbors silently shun the avid cheerleaders of the events.  Better to honestly face what and who we are head on.  I would imagine a lot of the online commenting is braggadocio and trying to be provocative, and we know how bullies act when they have to match their actions to their words.

          People are like stained glass windows; they sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light within. - Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

          by penelope pnortney on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 01:44:08 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  People would use their TIVO to skip the ads. n/t (0+ / 0-)

          "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~ John Wooden

          by Terry S on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:24:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I think we are already seeing that (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cowdab, Dauphin, JG in MD

        in that we HAVE the death penalty in the first place, we HAVE people who are willing to kill other people (gun violence) daily, we HAVE people who are sure that the "other" doesn't deserve to live (witness Israel supporters claim it is killing children in self defense and "stand your ground" actions.) And if that isn't enough we HAVE people willing to cut children from food stamps. We HAVE people ready to cut SS and SSI. We HAVE people who are fomenting wars to destabilize nations so that arms can be sold to both sides. We HAVE a congress that is ready and willing to tear asunder the ACA in spite of the fact that people will die.

        Frankly I am ready for something in the way of sanity and caring, but I am not seeing it.

        ALL of our institutions have been hollowed out by the greed ethos. There are none left with heart intact or souls for that matter. So the zombie is all around us - me

        by glitterscale on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 07:24:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Cannot support (7+ / 0-)

      I will never truly be able to label myself as a death penalty opponent.  Fundamentally, I really do accept that there are crimes so horrific for which the death penalty is the most appropriate punishment.  However, given how innately flawed even the most perfect justice system is, I cannot support the continued use of the death penalty.

      •  What if refraining... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GeoGrl, unfangus, RainyDay, navane50mg

        Refraining from capital punishment is more about refusing to harm ourselves than about meting out justice to criminals.

        the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

        by Sharkmeister on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:02:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's why we need exile as an option. (0+ / 0-)

        Although I hate the idea of destroying pristine wilderness, I dislike the idea that every inch of the planet has to be administered by our laws. I wish we had a place where we could send people who can't live in our society to where they no longer are part of our society. If they an survive, so be it —at least we are rid of them and safe. If they escape, maybe then we kill them, but as an act of war, recognizing their personal sovereignty and that we had removed from them the protection of our laws as applied to citizens.

        It's win-win. They get to be their own masters and we give them that respect. They leave our society and we each can live the way we want.

        -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

        by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:25:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  We will still have the same problem... (0+ / 0-)

          How do we live with the knowledge that we have exiled an innocent man or woman, and sentenced them to live in a Lord-of-the-Flies Hell?  Because, eventually we will.  (Sooner, rather than layer with our justice system.)  In fact, I could envision some of the crazy racists in charge today using that kind of system to "segregate" our African American population...

          •  That's the benefit of letting them live. (0+ / 0-)

            Periodically, we might allow a message to pass through to them. If there is a change in their status, we might let them know they can come out.

            -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

            by JPax on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:02:34 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  So, we create another Australia? (0+ / 0-)
      •  This states my stance perfectly. n/t (0+ / 0-)

        People are like stained glass windows; they sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in their true beauty is revealed only if there is a light within. - Elizabeth Kubler-Ross

        by penelope pnortney on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 01:45:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  "It takes balls to execute an innocent man!" (8+ / 0-)

      I think that tells the rest of the world exactly what they need to know about American notions of masculinity.

      American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

      by atana on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:41:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The question is: Do we need that facade? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GeoGrl, Sharkmeister, Jilly W, Cedwyn

      I'd like to think that the bloodier it is, the less likely people would be willing to demand it, especially if we force people to get that blood on their hands. Perhaps a new version of stoning, where a dozen randomly registered voters (or the jury) have to pull a switch.

      On the other hand, maybe people would enjoy it and blood would beget more blood.

      -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

      by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:44:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Never forget the family gatherings at lynchings, (4+ / 0-)

        made better if there was castration involved.  We are a brutal country hiding behind Katherine Lee Bates' sweet hymn.  We whitewash our history, deny our present, and weep sentimental tears over what we delude ourselves into believing we are.  We're also not unique in our brutality.  I hope there is a spiritual evolution in our near future, but don't count on it.  

        I'm not looking for a love that will lift me up and carry me away. A love that will stroll alongside and make a few amusing comments will suffice.

        by I love OCD on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:12:30 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Before he went all sexist... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          I love OCD

          Richard Cohen wrote a compelling piece (of text) against capital punishment.  One memorable part:  "the penalty for pickpockets was hanging, and at every hanging there were pickpockets working the crowd."

          the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

          by Sharkmeister on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:47:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, but society has changed somewhat... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister

          Lynchings were racially charged and extra-judicial and caused by moral panic. If we were to have judicial killings now-a-days, maybe people would be moved to empathy.

          Or not, in which case we should put the emphasis on judicial process and make the lead in so long and boring and officious that people don't want to participate in executions for that reason alone.

          -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

          by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:58:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe the executioners would prefer stoning - (0+ / 0-)

        People seem to like to stone (women only) in some countries.

        "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~ John Wooden

        by Terry S on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:30:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Aside From Documented Cases Where An (0+ / 0-)

      Innocent person was executed...

      I can not understand the outrage over putting someone to death who brutally murders another human being.

      At some point, one has to ask "Has this person demonstrated, repeatedly that they have no humanity whatsoever? That this person is essentially an animal?

      And we slaughter animals by the 10's or 100's of millions.

  •  Well, at least he's honest (14+ / 0-)

    Sickening, but honest.

    And yeah, lots of Americans dig the suffering and anguish because that's justice to them.

    There is no justice for the family of a murder victim. Too bad these barbarians won't accept that.

    NEW SINGLE! http://johnnyangelwendell.bandcamp.com/

    by Johnny Wendell on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:21:05 PM PDT

  •  I'd even go one step further (14+ / 0-)

    They should be public as well.

      Keeping it private means keeping the awful nature of it out of public view.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:21:21 PM PDT

    •  Agree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister

      I've always disapproved of putting a victim "to sleep" to kill them and consider these drugs an obstacle to eliminating capital punishment. If it's to be tolerated at all it should be public.

      •  I don't object to putting the victim to sleep (0+ / 0-)

        before executing him, whatever the method of execution.  The point is that if he's asleep, he shouldn't suffer as he dies.  If hanging turns out to be socially acceptable, put him to sleep and then string him up.  

        What I object to is the execution itself.  Killing people is wrong, whether it's war or state executions or drive-by killings on the streets of a big city or 'stand your ground' killings when you're not being threatened.  

        I don't think there's any rational excuse for executions.  A much worse punishment is to let the perpetrator rot in prison.  NOT in solitary confinement - I think that's cruel and inhumane, just as execution is.  

        "Things turn out best for the people who make the best of the way things turn out." ~ John Wooden

        by Terry S on Mon Jul 28, 2014 at 02:36:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  NO! I've lived in a place that executed thousands (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      leema, Sharkmeister, vivadissent, BYw

      per year in the sports arena. A spectacle harms many more than the executed.

      “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

      by ban nock on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:50:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I gotta ask (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sharkmeister

        where was that?
           It doesn't sound like something we would call a "justice system".

        "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

        by gjohnsit on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:58:14 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Kunming, Yunnan province mid 90s (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister, BYw

          they'd drive them through town in a truck with a sign around their necks. Usually drug mules caught with a kilo of heroin. From arrest to execution would take a couple weeks. They were guilty but not of much. It was possible to bribe your way out but pretty pricey.

          When I first got to Dali a business lady wanted me to take the tiny fish that is a local delicacy in blocks of ice to the capital in Kunming. She hissed in my ear "big money, fast money". Shivers ran up and down my back.

          “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

          by ban nock on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:32:25 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  coming soon to PPV: the capital punishment channel (11+ / 0-)
    "If we as a society cannot stomach the splatter from an execution carried out by a firing squad, then we shouldn’t be carrying out executions at all."
    (1991)
    SAN FRANCISCO — Under state law, television cameras may capture the arrest, trial and sentencing of a California convict. This week, a trial will examine whether the video witnesses should be allowed to take the final step--into San Quentin's gas chamber.

    In its federal civil lawsuit, publicly supported TV station KQED argues that the public has a right to see the death penalty meted out.

    "Why is it that the ultimate act of criminal justice should suddenly be taken behind closed doors? This is being done in our name on our behalf and with our money, and therefore we would argue that we have a right to see it," said Michael Schwarz, current-affairs director for the San Francisco station.

    http://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/...

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:23:30 PM PDT

  •  The recent execution that took two hours (12+ / 0-)

    with the condemned gasping and moaning for most of that time was absolutely barbarous.

    The death penalty is a horrific, uncivil practice that promotes vengeance over justice and should be abolished, as it once was in America.

    I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for justice, no matter who it's for or against. ~ Malcolm X -8.62 -8.36

    by 4Freedom on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:23:42 PM PDT

  •  Gotta agree with the judge. (8+ / 0-)

    It's like we want to be able to take a dump and expect a clean pinch. Except a dump is necessary and an execution isn't.

    Slow thinkers - keep right

    by Dave the Wave on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:24:47 PM PDT

  •  Totally agree nt (5+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:25:21 PM PDT

  •  This seems apropos: (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister, Villabolo

    Iuris praecepta sunt haec: Honeste vivere, alterum non laedere, suum cuique tribuere. - Ulpian, Digestae 1, 3

    by Dauphin on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:26:29 PM PDT

  •  I see he's been reading his Foucault. n/t (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dauphin, NormAl1792, corvo, Sharkmeister

    "I've always admired your tart honesty and ability to be personally offended by broad social trends." -Principal Skinner.

    by cardinal on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:26:33 PM PDT

  •  i am against the death penalty- (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kevskos, JPax, 4Freedom, Sharkmeister, Jilly W

    however, if it's to be done at all, it should be done in full view.
    if there is such a thing as a deterrent effect, that is where it would be- even as a deterrent to more executions.

    bring your own petard.

  •  Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, whose administration (11+ / 0-)

    has been surrounded by former corrections officials (resulting in huge increases for prisons while education is cut), assures us that Mr. Woods died "lawfully" and experienced no pain.

    Sadly, some agree with the judge, but not because they think executions are brutal and we shouldn't hide that. No, they like the brutality and would inflict it themselves if they could. You see that in the "Woods deserved it" comments.

    Arizona prison officials: Execution was not botched

    Arizona meet-up, July 27 in Phoenix. Meet Navajo! Send me Kosmail.

    by Mother Mags on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:29:30 PM PDT

  •  Strange the diary should mention the guillotine, (6+ / 0-)

    which was in fact invented to be a more humane method of execution than those in vogue at the time.

    Sadly, it's still less inhumane than much of what we do nowadays.

    Dogs from the street can have all the desirable qualities that one could want from pet dogs. Most adopted stray dogs are usually humble and exceptionally faithful to their owners as if they are grateful for this kindness. -- H.M. Bhumibol Adulyadej

    by corvo on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:36:24 PM PDT

    •  Agreed. More humane, but... (6+ / 0-)

      too messy for modern sensibilities.  IIRC, the guillotine was still the official means of execution in France up until they abolished capital punishment in the 1970s.

      •  but moved from public view as well (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        unfangus, Sharkmeister
        The last public guillotining in France was of Eugen Weidmann, who was convicted of six murders. He was beheaded on 17 June 1939 outside the prison Saint-Pierre, rue Georges Clemenceau 5 at Versailles, which is now the Palais de Justice. A number of problems with that execution (inappropriate behavior by spectators, incorrect assembly of the apparatus, and the fact that it was secretly filmed) caused the authorities to conduct future executions in the prison courtyard....

        In South Vietnam, after the Diệm regime enacted the 10/59 Decree in 1959, mobile special military courts dispatched to the countryside to intimidate the rural peoples used guillotines belonging to the former French colonial power to carry out death sentences on the spot. One such guillotine is still on show at the War Remnants Museum in Ho Chi Minh City.

        In 1996 in the US, Georgia State Representative Doug Teper unsuccessfully sponsored a bill to replace the state's electric chair with the guillotine.

        Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

        by annieli on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:42:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Why not go really old school and use the... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sharkmeister

        Garrotte (there are a few explicit images in this Wikipedia link). I'm a strong death penalty opponent, and anything that can be done to eliminate completely capital punishment in the US (and if that can't be done, at least reducing it) I would be for. But I have a feeling that even garroting wouldn't be venal enough for some death penalty proponents, including many who would volunteer to turn the screw. Sigh!

        I am proud to be able to say that I got the chance to vote for Ann Richards for Governor of Texas, twice!

        by dewtx on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:03:44 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  too slow and only just one way (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister, dewtx, BYw

          Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

          by annieli on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:10:53 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Jomsvikings (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dewtx

          National Geographic did a Vikings docu which reconstructed at length how some defeated mercenaries in England were apparently decapitated by sword, from the front, while not tied. They related that to the Jomsvikings saga which mentions such beheadings as a last sign of respect to the sentenced man, who would face his death and look the executioner in the eye.

          How about allowing the convict to choose the execution method? And if they demand something nobody is willing to carry out, it's life in prison instead? ^^

          (For the record, I'm personally against the death penalty, on the grounds that now and then an innocent person will be convicted.)

          Freedom is not just a word. 'Freedom' is a noun.

          by intruder from Old Europe on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 05:36:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Saudi Arabia still has public beheadings (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      BYw

      According to Wikipedia: "The 345 reported executions between 2007 and 2010 were all carried out by public beheading."  With a big sword swung by a big man.

      When I visited the kingdom some years ago the daily English-language newspaper at the hotel had an article about the state executioner, including an interview with him.  It was very troubling.

  •  Or we should democratize killing (e.g. stoning) (4+ / 0-)

    I'm not a fan of capital punishment for many reasons and personally, I'd rather we set aside some wilderness area and exile people to that instead of death or life in prison.

    Anyway, if we are to have capital punishment, perhaps we should consider stoning like in ancient times. If everyone participates, then everyone is responsible, and if everyone is responsible, then people may be less willing to demand it. After all, a lot of blood thirst comes from people who haven't actually tasted it.

    This is not too different from the argument that we should have a draft or conscription service instead of a volunteer force. After WWII when everyone had fought together got home, people understood what it meant to work as a team. These days, the soldiers go to war while other people, their senators and their senator's sons stay at home and ignore them, creating a culture clash.

    If we want to have a democracy, we should democratize everything, including the unpleasant parts of running a state. Otherwise we run the risk of making decisions to use violence without really understanding it. Either we're all in this together, or we're just fair-weather statists.

    -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

    by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:41:27 PM PDT

    •  asdf (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      atana, ThinkerT, Sharkmeister, JPax

      Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

      by annieli on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:45:51 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  One of my philosophy profs proposed a lottery (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, JPax, Sharkmeister, Cedwyn

      of adult citizens, like pulling jury duty. You and 11 others get a summons and a $20 per diem, you ride a bus to the prison, and all of have a plunger to push, no one knowing whose syringe delivered the good stuff.

      Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

      by raincrow on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:00:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe people should be forced to watch too... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sharkmeister

        As part of being registered to vote or to join a jury or run for office.

        I'd also add that executions shouldn't be allowed at all unless by an act of legislation... And in order to vote yes, they have to agree to a flogging of at least one lash. If evidence later exonerates someone after they were executed, then the legislators who voted yes all get 3 lashes.

        -We need Healthcare Reform... but i'm selfish, I Need Healthcare reform-

        by JPax on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:54:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Unless evil rich people children can't avoid (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annieli, JPax, Sharkmeister, BYw

      service, F*CK that.

      F*CK the dept of war aka "defense". How about not starting stupid wars?

      Oh yeah I forgot, stupid wars is what we're good at.

      I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

      by a2nite on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:01:39 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Could they sell the TV rights? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bear83, Sharkmeister

    We could use the money to build more prisons!  Seriously, the whole thing has devolved to the point where a swift, brutal execution would be a practical improvement - but it would not be a deterrent to more executions.  I remember how the press mocked the Taliban for their brutal methods, but if those options were on the ballot, they would probably get a big vote.

  •  If we were serious about non-savage executions (8+ / 0-)

    we would administer a strong sedative, wait for the prisoner to lapse into unconsciousness, then suffocate them with nitrogen or argon gas.

    But a certain segment of the population demands more than execution; they want to inflict physical pain or at least the fear of it.

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:45:20 PM PDT

  •  Televised crucifixions. Let us be honest about wh (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    atana, Sharkmeister

    at many of our fellow citizens want.  And to 'Christians' who object but not to the death penalty... remember, the 'good thief' was crucified as well.

  •  Hear, hear! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, Sharkmeister

    If a country decides to use death as a penalty, they should have the guts to do it swiftly. Give them a bullet, either by squad or solitary round. Perhaps a beheading by sword or guillotine. As long as it's lawful, humane as possible and swift, go for it ...

    But anything is better then how the US is dealing with it nowadays. Animals are treated better then those on death-row. Dogs are killed with more compassion.

    So, if a society approves of a death-sentence, it should take the responsibility to do it with two things in mind: a) it's a punishment, executed as the law requires, b) to do it as efficient (i.e. quick, painless, humane etc.) as possible.

    'We're all flying backwards into the Future'

    by Upie on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:50:20 PM PDT

  •  I am appalled every time the state takes a life... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, Sharkmeister

    to do murder in the name of Justice denigrates the very system that claims justice as its end. To advocate public brutality in the name of equity is, in itself, a call to barbarous vengeance, not law, a system supposedly constructed to keep public passions to a minimum and to guarantee humane judicious treatment of all parties in the process. I am sick of brutality being championed by the officials of the state...

    "Intelligence is quickness in seeing things as they are..." George Santayana

    by KJG52 on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:51:03 PM PDT

  •  executions do harm to the executioners as well as (6+ / 0-)

    society.

    “Conservation… is a positive exercise of skill and insight, not merely a negative exercise of abstinence and caution…” Aldo Leopold

    by ban nock on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:52:37 PM PDT

  •  Wow. (17+ / 0-)

    The Justice snitched my idea (not that it's at all original), but I wrote a fairly long paper on this subject when I was a law school student back inna day.

    After an extensive examination of execution methods and the legislation that amended or abolished them, my conclusion was this:

    The 8th amendment has been corrupted.  The notion of cruel and unusual does not apply to the defendant/victim.  The only, shameful reason that we are not still stoning people, gassing them, electrocuting them or decapitating them is NOT for the benefit of the convicted, but for the benefit of the witnesses, whose delicate sensibilities must not be disturbed
    .

    What started me on this path?  A one paragraph article that I stumbled across in the Chicago Tribune.  The article noted that the America Veterinary Medical Association had withdrawn their approval for the use of Pancuronium Bromide for use in the euthanasia of dogs and cats.  The Association stated that they had objective proof that the method caused pain and distress.

    In Illinois, we have finally gotten rid of the death penalty, but for other states that have not yet reached this pinnacle of common sense enlightenment, ask your elected representatives this:

    What is wrong with a world that routinely executes people using a method considered too brutal to be used on a stray dog?

    Don't practice. Train.--Brian Harvey

    by luvsathoroughbred on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:54:45 PM PDT

  •  Where is the photo at the top of the post from? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    Anyone know?  Film or an actual firing squad.  It grabs your attention which I guess is the point of the judge and the post.

  •  Similarly, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister, PsychoSavannah

    Muscle relaxers mask the effects of electroshock therapy on psychiatric patients. Otherwise their bodies would convulse and contort.

    Blondes and bright, shiny colors mask the hatred spewing from FOX bobble heads.

    Nixon gave up the game and now Americans are desensitized to corruption and liars.

    I could go on. Americans love to acquiesce to the violence of those in charge. Maybe it's time to expose Americans to extreme images of violence to wake them up.

    •  There IS a difference (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister

      Electro Convulsive Therapy ... like surgery ... is extreme.

      But in cases of intractable, disabling depression, unresponsive to chemical therapies -- it does work.

      The "masking" of convulsions is more like "prevention" of the convulsions, which in addition to being unsightly, also caused traumatic damage to patients ranging from broken bones   to torn muscles and ligaments.

      And YES ... I did see "One Flew Over the Coo-coo's Nest" ... which did almost reflect a substantially true representation of conditions as they existed at a time (1950) when the inventor of Prefrontal  Lobotomy had been  awarded a  Nobel Prize for Medicine

  •  Your guillotine snark is off-base. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    As a means of execution it has two very nice attributes:

    1.  It is undeniably gruesome.
    Severing a head should satisfy any splatter requirement

    2.  It is, as means of killing human beings go, relatively quick and painless, possibly the most humane way to kill people.

    Even so -- there is a question as to how long it takes the severed heads to die, and whether the victim retains consciousness for more than a few seconds.

    LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

    by dinotrac on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:57:13 PM PDT

    •  Why do you equate lack of physical (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GeoGrl, Sharkmeister

      pain with humane-ness? There was a woman in Colombia who got targetted by a gang. They put a donut-shaped bomb around her neck and told her she had an hour or two to live. The bomb squad got there but could do nothing. She was placed in a field and at the appointed time she was blown to smitherines. No pain, but would you call her murder humane? In deciding preferred methods of execution, the psychological elements leading up to death must be considered. And if you tell someone that in a week or an hour they're going to have their head sliced off and it's going to drop into a basket, I don't think all of them will have such a "humane" death.

      It would be fucking horrible, if you ask me.

      •  You've got to read all the words, including: (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sharkmeister
        as means of killing human beings go
        Telling anybody that they are going to be killed by any means at an appointed time is frought with psychology.  No need to add to the pain.

        LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

        by dinotrac on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:17:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Look, when the French people (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sharkmeister

          rebelled against Louis XVI, they had good reason. But then they brought out the guillotine, and it was a horrific bloodbath. This whole guillotine meme is not a good one in any way. Whatever our issues today with capital punishment, bringing back the guillotine is not an answer.

          •  The guillotine was an instrumentality, not the (0+ / 0-)

            cause of a horrific bloodbath (figuratively, anyway).  People would have been hanged or shot if they weren't beheaded.  Those are not pleasant ways to go, either.

            I'll admit to this: the guillotine probably has a much greater effect on those who are watching.

            LG: You know what? You got spunk. MR: Well, Yes... LG: I hate spunk!

            by dinotrac on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 05:33:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  The Only Problem Is (0+ / 0-)

      "Even so -- there is a question as to how long it takes the severed heads to die, and whether the victim retains consciousness for more than a few seconds."

      There's only one way to find out!

      Any volunteers?

      snark

  •  Killing in any guise is barbaric and savage: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    Whether it be in war, by an individual or by the state.      In fact state sanctioned killing might be the worst.

    Immediate self defense might be the only exception to killing and even then if there are other ways and means they would be preferred.

     

    "When wealth rules, democracy dies." Me

    by leema on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:58:54 PM PDT

    •  If your life is in immediate danger, (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister

      just kill the bastard. Spending any time thinking about whether there may be other less lethal ways and means will probably get you killed. But with that exception, killing is indeed barbaric and savage.

  •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

    I don't believe in capital punishment, it is an anti-deterrent.  States that do not practice it have lower murder rates than states that do.

    That said, I agree completely, if we are barbaric enough to execute people, there's nothing wrong with firing squads.  

    In fact, that firing squads make our callous brutality visible should be regarded as a good thing.  Let the gore remind us all that most reasonably advanced nation-states do not practice this sort of thing.

    the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

    by Sharkmeister on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 02:59:27 PM PDT

  •  No, no, no. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, GeoGrl, Sharkmeister

    He's right, certainly, and I totally agree with everything said. But the problem with making executions more grisly is that while it will give some people pause, it will give a lot more people a thrill that they'll enjoy immensely. Over time we'd probably see some states increase the level of blood and suffering in order to please a public who always thinks that existing execution methods are not enough of a deterrent. At least when we do these IV-drip executions (when they work properly) the public doesn't get a dose of bloody entertainment.

  •  This Judge is "Pro-Death Penalty"? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GeoGrl, Sharkmeister

    The American people are going to have to figure out a way to resolve this mess.  This judge is right in one respect, we are trying to keep this out of sight and out of mind.

    I, personally, am very conflicted about the death penalty.  I abhor these discussions, and am horrified at the incompetence of state officials who have performed executions recently.  Every fiber of my moral/spiritual being knows we have got to stop this practice.  And then, I remember...

    Years ago, when I was little, there was an anti-death penalty movement sweeping through the country.  And then a group of Charles Manson's followers brutally murdered their way through California.  If I remember and interpreted these events correctly, the anti-death penalty fervor stopped.  

    Later, as a teen, Ted Bundy brutalized young women all over the country; he went through my state, and was finally caught in Florida.  When Florida executed Bundy, people could buy tee shirts that said "Bundy BBQ".  There was a big party outside the prison the night he died.  

    Their crimes were brutal.  At the time, I remember thinking, "burn, Bundy."  I'm trying to reach a moral place, a decision, that I can defend - one without exception.  But there are still occasionally some crimes I read or hear about, especially regarding children, where I think that the criminal just can't be punished enough.  I'm praying about it, every day.  But clearly, the death penalty is not and cannot be carried out in a way that is not "cruel and unusual."  

    •  I have had similar feelings (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sharkmeister, Cedwyn

      But, look at the number of people exonerated by groups such as the Innocence Project.  Just ask yourself, how many innocent people am I OK with killing? 1? 10? 100???

      Our justice system is far from perfect, particularly if you are poor or a minority.  

      The death penalty isn't reserved only for those cases for which we are absolutely convinced of the defendant's guilt.  Most cases are muddled shades of gray rather than stark black and white.

      I absolutely agree that certain crimes make you wonder if there is possibly a punishment appropriate for the nature of the crime.  I don't have a good answer for that.  But I do believe that we sacrifice some of our humanity in our embrace of the death penalty.

      •  The standard of proof... (0+ / 0-)

        ...should, at a minimum, be higher for capital punishment to be an option.

        Perhaps something like "Guilty beyond all rational doubt" (instead of "Guilty beyond reasonable doubt"). In capital cases, the jury could come back with the standard "Guilty (beyond reasonable doubt)" verdict and the death penalty would be off the table or come back with a new "Guilty beyond all rational doubt" verdict and the death penalty would remain on the table. The trial judge would have the ability to downgrade a "Guilty beyond all rational doubt" to the standard "Guilty (beyond reasonable doubt)" verdict if she disagreed with the strength of the evidence. As well, a appellate level review of the record would be available to the defendant to challenge a "Guilty beyond all rational doubt" verdict to downgrade to a standard "Guilty (beyond reasonable doubt)" verdict.

        Juries would of course have to be instructed on how "beyond all rational doubt" differs from "beyond reasonable doubt" and perhaps given hypothetical examples of where the lines might be.

        I think, for example, that Manson probably would have met the "Guilty beyond all rational doubt" from what I recall while OJ (who, I know, was not found guilty at all -- but I followed Judge Ito's circus closely and am pretty sure I would have voted Guilty if I had been on the jury) would not -- the evidence was just not that unambiguous.

    •  Dark humor in Florida (0+ / 0-)

      After Bundy's capture but before his execution, Florida passed a law requiring seat-belt use in cars.  

      One day I was driving my Mom somewhere and noticed a bumper sticker:  "I'll wear my seat belt when Bundy wears his"

      My Mom was horrified but I thought it was funny.

      the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

      by Sharkmeister on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:05:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I Grew Up In Chicago (0+ / 0-)

      And I still remember the crowds when John Wayne Gacy was executed..."KILL THE CLOWN!!" the crowd screamed, repeatedly.

  •  Kevorkian was brutal and savage? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    How do you reconcile opposition to executions on the grounds they are "brutal" with support for doctor-assisted suicide? (I don't actually know Kos's position on suicide, but usually liberals favor it).  I don't know why there has been so much trouble with executions, but there is really no reason why they have to be "brutal" and not whatever Kevorkian's methods were supposed to be.  

    I oppose the death penalty because it is "savage" (not necessarily painful) and for a number of practical reasons - it doesn't really work. I certainly don't understand how Christians could favor it (or actually I do, but it is inconsistent with Christ's teachings).

  •  And to think the government prosecuted Kervorkian. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister, a2nite

    He was much better at this stuff than they are.

    "Bob Johnson doesn't have special privileges, because really, why would I entrust that guy with ANYTHING?" - kos, November 9, 2013

    by Bob Johnson on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:30:23 PM PDT

  •  If an eye-for-an-eye is what's demanded... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    ...can anyone dispute the rapid infallibility of the guillotine? (probably even some current day tricoteuse, perhaps in the form of Fox 'news'?)

  •  I am opposed to the death penalty, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    but I agree with the judge. I also think that executions should be public. Quit executing people in the dead of night. Moreover, if you are going to have a death penalty, then all murderers convicted of first degree murder should get the same penalty. Matching of punishment with severity of crime is a corner-stone of the justice system. We pick out a few individuals and kill them, but give long prison sentences to the rest without any real logic behind it. It's as though 99% of speeders got a $200 fine and the other 1% got 2 years in jail.

    Voting is the means by which the public is distracted from the realities of power and its exercise.

    by Anne Elk on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:41:32 PM PDT

  •  I will always be conflicted on this topic (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    On one hand I very much agree with a number of the arguments against it and on the other there's a number of arguments for it that I agree with.

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 03:46:54 PM PDT

    •  i think the following question helps with that (0+ / 0-)

      could you flip the switch/drop the plunger yourself?  if not, then you really are not pro-death penalty.

      peace

      Please don't dominate the rap, Jack, if you got nothin' new to say - Grateful Dead

      by Cedwyn on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 08:14:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'd like to think that he's right in his implic... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sharkmeister

    I'd like to think that he's right in his implication that the death penalty is a horror show that will be abandoned if made bloodier but my sense is, people would just enjoy it more.

    We like to think that we're good people and lethal injection is a paen to that belief- we're not burning people alive, just putting them to sleep- but in truth, humans are a pretty sorry species.

  •  Free will correlates w support for Cap Punishment (0+ / 0-)


    My cousin Ralph got a bachelor's in philosophy before going to Med school.  We would sometimes discuss determinism vs free will (we HAD to, it was our FATE!).  

    He eventually came up with some humorous logic:  he believes the will is free and if indeed it is, he's right;  if he's wrong, he never really had a choice in the matter to begin with.

    That said, simplistic fools who can't recognize that we are locked in a deterministic material matrix and believe the will is free also tend to support capital punishment.  

    It's hard to blame them, they never really had a choice in the matter.

    the Clear Light is the consciousness of the quantum vacuum

    by Sharkmeister on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:14:28 PM PDT

  •  It's brutal it's savage, it's cruel & it's unusual (0+ / 0-)

    Taking two hours to kill someone with a cocktail of experimental drugs is certainly cruel and unusual. Thus it should be found unconstitutional.


    There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

    by bobinson on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 04:57:00 PM PDT

  •  A modest proposal for Death Penalty Observers (0+ / 0-)

    I think the judge makes a great point.

    But let's do it right.

    Inasmuch as the Death Penalty IS brutal, and inasmuch as it is irreversible and and uses the State's power as a proxy for The People, there should be a minimum quorum of citizen observers present when the penalty is applied.  This quorum should be a certain fraction of the population of the polity imposing the death penalty (as established by the US Census for congressional apportionment purposes.)  For instance, if a State imposes the death penalty, then that polity should be that State - if the Federal Government does so, then that polity would be the United States.  (I am not aware of any counties, parishes, cities, towns, or villages that impose death penalties or are able to - but this would apply to them too.)

    The "certain fraction" I mention above would be relatively modest, perhaps 0.1% (or one "mill").

    We could even give the State a few chances (perhaps 3, to reflect the Holy Trinity) over the course of a modest amount of time (perhaps a year) to try this before it would be determined that the Sentence had been carried out and guilty party released.

    I doubt a 0.1% threshold could be met - especially for Federal sentences.  

  •  The prosecutor, judge, and jury should perform (0+ / 0-)

    the execution personally.

    (Actually, I don't believe that because I believe there should be executions under any circumstances.)

  •  I am anti-death penalty (0+ / 0-)

    There are a number of reasons for that...the number of people found innocent, the economic aspect, the incredible time frame, and above all the inhumaneness of it. But it seems to me that if you just have to have it, it should be quick and efficient, and lethal injection is most certainly neither. The traditional firing squad works for that purpose, but I'd prefer none of the above.

    Being "pro-life" means believing that every child born has a right to food, education, and access to health care.

    by Jilly W on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 07:52:33 PM PDT

  •  Tisk, tisk. No sound reduction gear. (0+ / 0-)

    I hope they were severely reprimanded for that.  All executions should be televised rather than being conducted at midnight and hidden from public view.  Even the Roman spectacle finally wore off.  Maybe same would happen here.  

    A bad idea isn't responsible for those who believe it. ---Stephen Cannell

    by YellerDog on Fri Jul 25, 2014 at 08:26:49 PM PDT

  •  No Matter How Sanitized It's Still Wrong (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    a2nite

    I have to think nothing would comfort a killer more than knowing society agrees with him that it's okay to kill someone if you have a sufficiently good reason.

  •  The problem here is that... (0+ / 0-)

    even if everyone in the nation were to wake up tomorrow and agree that Capital Punishment just does not make sense - it does not deter crime; too any innocent men are convicted of crimes they have not committed; we or have a quick, efficient means of effecting the death of the condemned; etc. - it wouldn't matter.  The problem is not with how Americans feel about Capital Punishment, it's how we feel about the men and women imprisoned for crimes in this country.  It is one thing to believe that these people have a sentence to serve, restitution to make to victims.  Many Americans want more.  They want their pound of flesh.  People are raped in prison?  Good!  Serves 'em right!  Prisons are over-crowded, filthy?  Ha!  What do they expect, the Ritz?!  Prisons are full of gangs and violence?  Too bad!  They should be used to it!  We wouldn't treat our dogs this way.  Until we change our collective attitudes about our prison population, I doubt our society will make much progress on compassion for capital criminals.

  •  If you want to expose the public why not just e... (0+ / 0-)

    If you want to expose the public why not just execute 10 people from the defendants town at random along with the defendant? Just randomly pick addresses from a database, it doesn't matter if you're rich, poor, young, old, disabled, healthy, white, black or whatever, just ten random citizens whoever answer the knock at the door, lock them in a big cage with hungry crocodiles and televise it at halftime on the NFL or during the 7th inning stretch or whatever and if during that time you aren't watching you're put at the top of the random list. It would put a damned quick end to capital punishment and very likely every crime known other than speeding to get the hell out of town on execution day.

    Look, if you want to kill in the name of the state painlessly try heroin. It's dirt cheap and nobody could withstand a shot of about 3 grams, not even the most battle tested addicts.

    Better yet, make execution an option for ALL inmates doing hard time. You can do 50 years or we can shoot you up with heroin and end this charade right now.

  •  I disagree. (0+ / 0-)

    I oppose the death penalty, but if it is to be carried out, it should be done in the most efficient and painless way possible. I don't believe in causing more pain to death penalty recipients as a political tool to make the penalty less palatable to the public.

    Gondwana has always been at war with Laurasia.

    by AaronInSanDiego on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 09:05:53 AM PDT

  •  Guillotine could make me a death penalty supporter (0+ / 0-)

    Especially if applied to the Banksters first.

    Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your shackles. It is by the picket line and direct action that true freedom will be won, not by electing people who promise to screw us less than the other guy.

    by rhonan on Sun Jul 27, 2014 at 01:47:12 PM PDT

    •  Fuck THAT (0+ / 0-)

      For the Banksters, I'd like to see them hung in the public square...and everyone who has lost a house or a job because of these assholes should be issued a baseball bat and use those sonsabitches as piñatas!!

  •  My thoughts agree (0+ / 0-)

    But my emotions pull me in the other direction. Most executions could and should be replaced by life without parole sentences. There are those cases that involve horrible cruelty or the murder of children where I want the monster that committed the crime dead. About 2 decades ago we had a serial child torture murderer. His name was Wesley Alan Dodd and he kidnapped very young children and tortured them for days before killing them. He was caught when he tried to drag a child out of a movie theater lobby in full view of witnesses who tackled him. The state of WA hanged Wesley. He got off a whole lot easier than the kids he victimized as far as suffering goes. Nothing will ever convince me that people who commit these horrors don't deserve whatever fate catches up with them.

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