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I've just read a great article, "The Biden Agenda:  Reckoning with Ukraine and Iraq, and keeping an eye on 2016." by Evan Osnos  in  the July 28, 2014 New Yorker.

It suggests to me that failing Warren or someone like her, Joe Biden might be a 2016 primary advocate for the 99% and an alternative to the hawkishness of Hillary Clinton.

Some pertinent passages from the New Yorker article:

Since entering the Administration, Biden has been a strident voice of skepticism about the use of American force. At times, that put him on the opposite side of debates from others in the Administration, including Hillary Clinton and Leon Panetta, Obama’s first C.I.A. director. Biden opposed intervention in Libya (as did Defense Secretary Robert Gates), arguing that the fall of Muammar Qaddafi would result in chaos; Biden warned the President against the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. If it failed, Biden said later, Obama “would’ve been a one-term President.” Though Obama heeded Biden’s advice only sometimes, the two men adhered to a restrained foreign policy that “avoids errors,” as Obama put it to reporters in April. Asked to articulate an “Obama doctrine,” the President said, “You hit singles, you hit doubles; every once in a while we may be able to hit a home run.”
When he was in the Senate, Biden was a centrist Democrat who called on his party, at times, to back diplomacy with force. Though he voted against the Gulf War, in 1991, he advocated NATO air strikes in the Balkans in 1993 to stop the Serbian slaughter of Bosnians. In the run-up to the war in Iraq, in 2002, he pushed a resolution that would have allowed Bush to remove weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but not to remove Saddam Hussein. The resolution failed, and Biden voted for the war, a decision he regrets.
In the Administration, [Biden and Hillary Clinton] differed sharply on the use of American force; she favored a surge in Afghanistan, a mission to depose Qaddafi, and the bin Laden raid, and he opposed all three.
Writing for The Atlantic in May, Peter Beinart took stock of Clinton’s momentum and concluded, “Joe Biden’s prospective Presidential candidacy is in danger of becoming a joke.” Beinart mourned that development, arguing that the contrast between Biden and Clinton on foreign policy could spark a debate “about America’s role in the world.”
Biden had recently taken to making comments that might position him as a progressive alternative, à la Elizabeth Warren, the Massachusetts senator. “I have a basic disagreement,” he told me, “with the underlying rationale that began in the Clinton Administration about the concentration of economic wealth.” As Hillary Clinton fended off further questions about her income, Biden told an audience in Washington that he was wearing a “mildly expensive suit,” despite not owning “a single stock or bond” or having a savings account. (In fact, his family has securities in his wife’s name, and a savings account. Tax returns show that they are heavily mortgaged.) Jon Stewart declared it “a good old fashioned Poor-Off.”
Even if Clinton wins the nomination, a decent competitor might force her to moderate her aggressive foreign policy tendencies.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (9+ / 0-)

    Play chess for the Kossacks on Chess.com. Join the site, then the group at http://www.chess.com/groups/view/kossacks.

    by rhutcheson on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 11:17:02 AM PDT

  •  I Think Sanders is Much Closer to Running But Bidn (7+ / 0-)

    would be a good choice from my perspective. I supported him initially, long ago when he first ran.

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 11:18:28 AM PDT

    •  No. To both Biden and Sanders. (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gordon20024, AlexDrew, FG, askew

      This is all pipe dreaming. I know this isn't popular to bring up, but it's an immutable fact of life that I am sure Biden and Sanders know even if some dreamers on the left want to pretend it's not: both are way way WAY too old. Biden would be three years older than Ronald Reagan was — and he was too old. Sanders is that age NOW.

      In addition, Sanders has no party base to run from. He can't magically become a Democrat at this late date and expect to garner any support.

      Let's talk reality — O'Malley, Gillibrand, Klobuchar... (Just don't mention Cuomo, OK?)

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 06:39:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  How about Biden for (0+ / 0-)

        Hillary's VP?

        Even if Biden were young, the fact that he's been VP makes him unelectable as POTUS.  Sorry, just a fact.

        No Republican VP candidate wants to face him in a debate.

        "...we live in the best most expensive third world country." "If only the NEA could figure out all they have to do is define the ignorance of the next generation as a WMD..." ---Stolen from posts on Daily Kos

        by jestbill on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 10:53:18 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Biden carried the water (7+ / 0-)

    for the credit card companies when in the senate.  See, them bankruptcy bill.  He's a faux populist.

    "When dealing with terrorism, civil and human rights are not applicable." Egyptian military spokesman.

    by Paleo on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 11:29:26 AM PDT

  •  VP Biden (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Bensdad

    gets boat raced by all r's for prez...no thank you.

  •  No. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rhutcheson

    First, we shouldn't let the corporate press pick our candidates. I don't think it's a coincidence that a political media establishment based in the northeast keeps pushing northeastern politicians as potential Presidential candidates.

    Second, I really don't see Biden as an alternative to what people dislike about Clinton. He doesn't have a strong progressive record.

    Progressives need to find a real alternative. Martin O'Malley has potential. Let's see who else might get in the race.

  •  The article also basically says that..... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Willinois

    ....Biden is a doofus. He was wrong on going after Bin Laden, voted for the war in Iraq, opens mouth and inserts foot and is not taken seriously elsewhere.

    His one virtue is that he truly is a regular Joe and talks like one. Not sure I want that as President. His other virtue, I guess, is that he did make Rand Paul look like a little dweeb in the debates.

    I don't even think Biden wants this though.

    If you hate government, don't run for office in that government.

    by Bensdad on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:01:45 PM PDT

  •  I wouldn't mind Joe Biden in the race. (10+ / 0-)

    Why?  Because he is damn good in debates and his voice would compete with Hillary's.  I say any strong, ethical Democrat who wants to run should.  And Joe is ethical.  I like him.  He has many years of experience and has seen every facet and phase of Congress and many respect him.

    As far as "foot in mouth," they all have it.  I believe the media likes to make much ado over Joe's remarks.  I'd rather hear a politician speak his mind off the cuff and know where s/he stands, than playing it safe as other politicians have.  He is nobody's fool.

    Joe had a son in Iraq.  His hesitancy to go into Pakistan risking soldiers to get Osama bin Laden was probably a factor in why he worried about the risky outcome.  How many sons or daughters have other politicians had in that war, fearing for their soldiers' lives?

    Jump in Joe.  We need you on the dais to speak out on the issues.

    It is his right.  He's distinguished himself and earned that right.

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:17:05 PM PDT

    •  The press loves to savage EVERY sitting VP (6+ / 0-)

      as a doofus.  Even LBJ was portrayed as such from January, 1961 to November, 1963.  Dan Quayle was simply savaged a little more than other VPs.  Even Gore, whose intelligence no one denies now, was portrayed as a doofus.  Biden does sometimes talk out-of-school. Who doesn't?  The man has a wealth of experience to offer. I know of at least one person who became even more inclined to vote for Obama because of Biden's presence on the ticket.

      "Valerie, why am I getting all these emails calling me a classless boor?"

      by TLS66 on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:32:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Drafting candidates doesn't work (4+ / 0-)

    More accurately, OUR drafting candidates doesn't work. The establishments drafts candidates and they're successful. They have the clout and they're not afraid to use it.

    So, all this talk about alternate candidates is really a time-waster.

    P.S. I am not a crackpot.

    by BoiseBlue on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:23:09 PM PDT

  •  74 years old ... 78 years old! (3+ / 0-)

    That's how old Joe Biden will be on Inauguration Day 2017, and at the end of his first term in office. Reagan wasn't quite 70 when he took office for his first term. I think not.

    Bin Laden is dead. GM and Chrysler are alive.

    by leevank on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:34:02 PM PDT

    •  Well, he's pretty unlikely to get the nomination. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bluenick, elwior

      So I don't know how much that matters. I mainly am looking for a good airing of ideas in the primary process - hopefully pushing the range of "acceptable" ideas somewhat to the left.

      "Turns out I'm really good at killing people." - President Obama

      by jrooth on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:43:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He's the sharpest, sexiest 71+ yr old you ever saw (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      elwior, rhutcheson

      Reagan had more than just signs of early Alzheimer's when he was first elected-- I'm sure of that. And he wasn't ever all that sharp anyhow. As gov. of CA, he was a disaster. It was all an act, the whole damned thing.

      Joe, otoh, is a guy with brains, experience and passion. You might not always agree with him, but on balance, I'd go with him if he were the nominee.

      I must be dreaming... (3764 forever!)

      by murphy on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 01:20:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  That is critical (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      AlexDrew, leevank

      even though some people here like to pretend it's not a factor. don't get me started on how old Sanders is NOW (almost as old as Reagan at the END of his first term — right NOW)

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 06:42:01 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's nowhere near as good as Warren (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bluenick, elwior, rhutcheson

    on economic policy. But sure, I think a Biden candidacy would be helpful. He's a pretty good debater and he's not afraid of speaking his mind. And as you say, he's quite good on the foreign policy stuff.

    I'd love to see someone really good on domestic policy in the race as well, though.

    "Turns out I'm really good at killing people." - President Obama

    by jrooth on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:39:31 PM PDT

  •  We all love Joe, (4+ / 0-)

    but I think not.

    Ironically, I can't think of anyone who would make a better VP for Hillary -- except that asking any human to serve for 3 or 4 terms as VP is expressly forbidden by the Constitutional clause against cruel and unusual punishment.

    Joe Biden really would have made a good president. He was just unlucky about the timing.

    American Presidents: 43 men, 0 women. Ready for Hillary

    by atana on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 12:40:32 PM PDT

  •  What is Biden going to run on? (0+ / 0-)

    Peace & prosperity?

    Dammit Jim, I'm a lawyer, not a grammarian. So sue me.

    by Pi Li on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 02:05:19 PM PDT

  •  Joe Biden and to balance the ticket, Michelle (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rhutcheson

    Obama.
    In addition to her education and nutrition agenda, Michelle has gotten foreign policy credits by giving speeches abroad.
    The MSM was under whelmed by her solo trip to China, but it was way more important than a Mormon missionary stint in France.

    •  Why do people keep proposing this? (4+ / 0-)

      Do you really, TRULY, believe Michelle Obama is qualified to be the President? In these crazy, mad times, you'd choose someone with no political experience because she went on a trip to China and it wasn't disastrous?

      Not to mention the reaction of the rest of the country outside of DK. Can you IMAGINE?

      "Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek." - Barack Obama

      by anshmishra on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 02:30:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, she's got the education, the financial (0+ / 0-)

        experience, the stature and the shoulders. Also, she's more than "presentable" (Biden's assessment of Barack) and speaks well.
        What more do you want? Superwoman?

        2014 will be the year of the women, with Michelle Nunn going to the Senate from Georgia, Kentucky replacing McConnell with Grimes and Texas electing Davis.

        •  Good grief (0+ / 0-)

          I like Michelle Obama. As First Lady. She'd probably be one of the least qualified members of  presidential ticket in history if we put her on it.

          What more do I want from a candidate?
          How about:  governmental experience. She has none.

    •  You have a very thin understanding (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rich in PA

      On what earns "foreign policy" credits. Travelling, and delivering speeches that have been carefully crafted by policy advisers is not, in and of itself, "foreign policy cred". (And that's setting aside a good number of other reasons this is a bad idea.)

      “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

      by Catte Nappe on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:40:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  "delivering speeches ... crafted by policy (0+ / 0-)

        advisors" is exactly what the President does. Only rarely does a President have time to write speeches himself. Never mind that I'm only suggesting the VP slot in which she might just learn how the Senate works.

    •  Yes, but that guy lost. n/t (0+ / 0-)

      It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

      by Rich in PA on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:52:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Biden did very poorly in 2008, even far behind (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FG

    John Edwards.

    If the purpose is to get free exposure for HRC in "debates" Joe can be useful to Democrats, otherwise there are better choices.

    However, it does appear that Joe does want to run.

    The most important way to protect the environment is not to have more than one child.

    by nextstep on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 03:09:27 PM PDT

    •  I don't think Biden has said anything one way (0+ / 0-)

      or the other.
         And he's the VP now, which gives him credibility and heft that he didn't have before.
         He's got the world of experience, and he could step into the job next week and do it wonderfully well.

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 03:17:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Both of Biden's presidential campaigns have (0+ / 0-)

      flopped. Yeah, he can debate well at times. He can bomb at times. He's old and will be tied to an administration that is not and probably will  not be all that popular.

  •  T & R for at least trying (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    AlexDrew

    We need to be having these conversations about who (other than Elizabeth Warren) might be a candidate and what their strengths and weaknesses might be.

    “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

    by Catte Nappe on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:41:53 PM PDT

    •  Yes we do, but midterm elections first. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      "We the People of the United States...." -U.S. Constitution

      by elwior on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:47:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We can manage both (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        AlexDrew

        Because any realistic candidate for a Presidential run in 2016 needs to begin doing certain things and getting certain levels of support along about now. My focus is on the midterms, too; but for those  who would like to boost a candidate for 2016 it's not too early to start their boosterism. And I'm all for encouraging such efforts, as opposed to the seemingly endless litany of "anybody but HRC" diaries we seem to get, with no substantive effort to propose who that "anybody" is.

        “Texas is a so-called red state, but you’ve got 10 million Democrats here in Texas. And …, there are a whole lot of people here in Texas who need us, and who need us to fight for them.” President Obama

        by Catte Nappe on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 05:45:25 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I haven't heard a reasonable discussion here (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      Where are the REAL candidates? Biden is not a real candidate. He had a couple of shits, gained no traction, and now he's too old.

      Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

      by anastasia p on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 06:43:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  If not Warren, then Clinton of course! (0+ / 0-)

    Same as "if Warren."

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Sat Jul 26, 2014 at 04:51:47 PM PDT

  •  Joe Biden's Afghanistan strategy. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    elwior
    In the Administration, [Biden and Hillary Clinton] differed sharply on the use of American force; she favored a surge in Afghanistan
    After the fraud of the 2009 election and the failure of the surge, Biden pretty much won the debate. And his plan hasn't worked very well either.
  •  I kind of like Biden as POTUS and Hillary as VP. (0+ / 0-)

    Velvet glove and iron fist.

    Biden has deep roots in Congress, and Hillary as connections too.  They both have gained tons of International experience.

    Warren can be Sec of State or get a major Cabinet seat if she wants, and get groomed for the next election.  She has organizational experience, add another arrow to her quiver.

  •  His judgement on OBL was wrong and while (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dr Swig Mcjigger

    he's less militarist in general there doesn't seem to be a big difference between him and Hillary on most policy issues. And he's too old.

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