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A Yazidi fighter who recently joined the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) gestures while securing a road in Mount Sinjar in northern Iraq for displaced people from the Yazidi religious minority fleeing violence from forces loyal to the Islamic State in Sinjar town, as they make their way towards Newrooz camp in Syria's al-Hasakah province August 13, 2014. A U.S. mission to evacuate the Yazidis trapped on the mountain by Sunni militant fighters is far less likely after a U.S. assessment team sent there on Wednesday found the humanitarian situation not as grave as expected, the Pentagon said. Picture taken August 13, 2014. REUTERS/Rodi Said
A Yazidi fighter gestures while securing a road in Mount Sinjar in northern Iraq for displaced people from the Yazidi religious minority fleeing violence from forces loyal to the Islamic State. A U.S. mission to evacuate the Yazidis trapped on the mountain by Sunni militant fighters is far less likely after a U.S. assessment team sent there on Wednesday found the humanitarian situation not as grave as expected.
If you're feeling nostalgic over fantasies that our troops would be greeted as liberators in Iraq in rose-petal strewn parades, then you're in luck! Because the neocons never give up their crazy war fantasies. Never.
The public’s sense of war-wariness is not due to financial or personal sacrifice. It is due to the correct feeling that our leadership does not want to be involved in war. “If they stop, we stop.” The deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan seemed like Groundhog Day, with the fighting accomplishing no goal. Similarly, America is drifting toward a decade of war-jaw with an Islamic state in the center of the Middle East.

The public will be supportive if — and only if — our political and military leadership display the warrior resolve to destroy the Islamist army. If you go to war, kill the opponent. Crush his body and spirit until he is destroyed or submits to your goals.

Remember when the public grew so sick and tired of the war in Iraq that they threw out Republicans from Congress in 2006, and then handily defeated John McCain in 2008? It was because President George W. Bush and McCain were so mealy mouthed about the wars, refusing to crush bodies and spirits and force people to submit to their goals. If only they had been more bloodthirsty, the public would've been with them. For example, instead of pushing for 10,000 years of war in Iraq, McCain should've promised 100,000!

One of the biggest problems conservatives have is that they confuse "I believe" with "the American people believe." While neocons may get aroused at the thought of killing and crushing and forcing people to "submit," the American people have zero appetite for yet another endless military adventure. That's not opinion, that's data-supported fact.

Ironically, the Islamic State (or ISIL) wouldn't exist if the neocons hadn't gotten their war in Iraq. The only question is whether that's a feature or a bug.

Originally posted to kos on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 08:57 AM PDT.

Also republished by Adalah — A Just Middle East and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  and who did CNN just interview: Paul Bremer (31+ / 0-)

    "Ambassador", for his Iraq insights right after their Daren Wilson/Michael Brown coverage; who was the bigger criminal

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:00:38 AM PDT

    •  CNN = Central Neocon Network (9+ / 0-)

      It would be impossible to regularly promote Neocon fantasies INTENTIONAL DECEPTIONS, without "agents provocateur" (the "AP") within the media working to incite the American public to engage in and support the illegal activities of the United States in the middle east.

      Had the United States followed the guidelines of international law in Iraq and Israel over the last 20 years we would be well on our way to reconciliation and peace in the region.

      While not employed directly by the Neocon establishment, the U.S. media is so ideologically captured and enslaved to the narrative of the neocons, for the fear of losing "access", that they may as well be on the Neocon payroll.

      In 1943, 41% of all produce consumed within the United States was grown at home

      by New Minas on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:20:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They're all on the payroll of the war machine. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Angie in WA State

        The neocons get paid to think conspire in think conspiracy tanks on how to start the next war, and the news media is owned by entities that make money off of and/or believe they are achieving a desirable/justifiable end from the means of war.

        Information is the currency of democracy. ~Thomas Jefferson

        by CIndyCasella on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:32:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I wouldn't take Bremer's advice on where to (7+ / 0-)

      order a Pizza let alone anything to do with US policy.

      Further, affiant sayeth not. 53959

      by Gary Norton on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:28:13 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No shit. He'd probably recommend Domino's. (7+ / 0-)

        Bremer was the idiot who decided to disband the Iraqi army. With that epic braindead decision, he's more responsible for the birth of the insurgency than anyone else.

        •  he's a papa john's guy. (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lone1c, Gentle Giant, annieli

          Better God.
          Better ideals.
          That's the United States of Murrkah.

          If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel the Elder, Ethics of the Fathers. Corporadeus

          by Floyd Blue on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:18:41 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Not just Bremer (3+ / 0-)

          Rumsfeld, GW Bush and Cheney.  They moved into Iraq with  had no plan or allocated resources for what happened after  the obvious military victory.

          Rumsfeld wanted a lean force.  Many in the military believed   that they were going in too light--an obvious blunder to send enough force/men to take the territory but not enough to hold it.

          Then we had their good guy bad guy world view.  They did not want to use anyone who had experience in Bosnia, refused to learn those lessons, and decided to disenfranchise all the Baath party members as gf120581 points out.

          My take is that it was Rumsfeld and GW Bush who should shoulder the most blame.  Rumsfeld  was known as "rubber gloves" because he would manipulate people so he was the decision maker but could blame others if things went wrong   GW Bush IMO was lazy, repeatedly showed bad judgment.   All so self interested I'd call them dishonest.  Bremer surely had a say but he had his marching orders and Rumsfeld was famous for his  actual micromanagement and sly way of claiming he was doing the opposite.

          Woodward reports that Rumsfeld drove some generals to near nervous breakdown; anyone who disagreed with the higher ups was "not a team player" and cast out.   Bush finally had to fire Rumsfeld after the military basically demanded it.

          My take from multiple sources, including Woodward's books starting with Plan of Attack.

          “Everyone is ignorant, only on different subjects.” ― Will Rogers

          by MugWumpBlues on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:33:35 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  And to think CNN might surely have gotten hrc (4+ / 0-)

      for the interview,

      if only they'd asked. /snark

      "Show up. Pay attention. Tell the truth. And don't be attached to the results." -- Angeles Arrien

      by Sybil Liberty on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:08:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There's only a handful of paid (4+ / 0-)

      proxies who are allowed to have a voice in the corporate news cycle, and an even smaller number of oligarchs who allow them.

      I'm living in America, and in America you're on your own. America's not a country. It's just a business.

      by CFAmick on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:17:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Then they need to strap it on and go over there (23+ / 0-)

    and fight for "our American ideals". Put their bodies in harms way since they like killing so much.

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:02:54 AM PDT

  •  It's a feature. (12+ / 0-)

    Necons want the US to be Atomic Prussia.

  •  an even worse mistake than (12+ / 0-)
    they confuse "I believe" with "the American people believe."
    is to confuse "I believe" with "Facts (or history, or experience, or something, for God's sake, shows that"

    Opinion is fine, but facts are so much more useful in setting policy.

    And,  by the way, polls are at best organized opinions and are not facts.

    And that's true in Iraq, or Washington, or wherever you may find yourself.

  •  They're fantasizing about (15+ / 0-)

         NATO going to war against Russia right now.

    The free market is not the solution, the free market is the problem.

    by Azazello on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:19:15 AM PDT

    •  Ukraine had them getting a case of "blue balls". (9+ / 0-)

      n/t

      Float like a manhole cover, sting like a sash weight! Clean Coal Is A Clinker!

      by JeffW on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:29:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  NATO will not go to war with Russia (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Azazello, ichibon

      There are other options in Ukraine.  The EU does need to start figuring out how to be more energy independent from Russia, and will probably apply more sanctions against Putin if this continues.  

      But this war talk is silly.  

      On the other hand, Syria has already descended into madness - tens of thousands literally tortured to death in Assad's prisons, and IS displays human heads on poles all around the town square in Raqqa. And the war now extends from Lebanon almost to Iran.  We will not have troops on the ground, other than special forces trainers in Iraq, nor should we.  But the idea that the US or the EU or Turkey are going to be able to completely ignore Syria... well we'll see how that plays out over the next year.

      “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

      by ivorybill on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 12:00:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Crushing ISIS in Syria is another neocon dream (16+ / 0-)

    and now Hillary is the one giving it voice.

    "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

    by gjohnsit on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:27:32 AM PDT

    •  Yeah I have to say I'm impressed that (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      TracieLynn, elliott, greenbell, Wolf10

      Kos has written a post blasting Hillary and other neocons. I thought he was in the tank for her/

      •  wtf, can't you lay off for just a single post? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        david mizner, ichibon, capelza

        He supports the Democrats winning the White House in 2016.

        He has given chapter and verse that the polling points to Hillary pounding the shit out of ANY Republican out there at this point in time - which he ALSO says when he posts about her.

        He hasn't to my knowledge ever said, "I LOVE Hillary and she's the answer to all our prayers!" or anything like that.

        He has said for over a damned decade now, "I will support the candidate whomever it is" when it comes down to the Convention.  So if it's NOT HRC, then he'll be "in the tank" for whomever it is then.

        What's your fucking problem?

        "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

        by Angie in WA State on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:49:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  And the solution is to leave ISIS alone? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Phoenix Woman, ivorybill

      It's a rock and a hard place.

      Still, it is interesting that Kos thinks that the IRaq war was responsible for the uprising against Assad, where ISIS really got going.  That was kind of George Bush's line that putting a "democratic" regime in Iraq would force a flowering of democratic forces throughout the region.  Apparently, many in the US have little appetite for democratization in the middle east.

      •  Not at all (0+ / 0-)

        I've been trying to call attention to this situation for a while now. We've got to come up with a plan.

         But the "plan" right now is a total joke. It won't work and it might even make things worse.

         How could limited bombing in Iraq possibly do anything significant to a group spread out over two countries?
           This isn't a plan. It's a political reaction.

        "The oppressors most powerful weapon is the mind of the oppressed." - Stephen Biko

        by gjohnsit on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 01:10:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A feature not a bug. (14+ / 0-)

    It is a feature of neocon foreign policies (known in the not-so-remote past as fascist foreign policies), that they backfire spectacularly in rather short order, and establish enemies far more potent than the ones they had originally set out to "crush".

  •  Desperately clinging to failed problem-solving (4+ / 0-)

    strategies is a noted feature in many kinds of psychopathology, including alcoholism, depression, etc. It's best summed-up in this blooper video I saw years ago of Mr. Rogers (host of the kid's TV show of the '70s) trying to put up a camping tent. You had him patiently explaining to kids in his audience that it was just going to take him "a moment more" to get this thing together. It drags on and on, with Mr Rogers trying one thing and another to assemble the recalcitrant tent, improbably, for several minutes. All the while, you had this stupid Mr. Rogers theme music--with the tinkly chimes--playing in the background.  

    Clearly, Mr. Roger's goat has been got. This situation has the best of him. He is not saying to kids in his audience, but he is undoubtedly thinking:

    "If I just try harder, I know I can finally make this work."

    "If I just try harder..."

    "If I just try harder," I KNOW this invasion thing will go down in history the way we want it to...

    Sorry I couldn't find the video. It would be sweet here.

    "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come." --Rumi

    by karmsy on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:41:10 AM PDT

  •  most of them -- the NeoCons (17+ / 0-)

    grew up in the era of Cold War,
    where you met Might with even MORE Might (usually ICBMs).

    This is the main reason Reagan is their Hero,
    he was not afraid to raise those stakes, nor our indebtedness to boot.

    Despite the fact the Berlin Wall crumbled more due to
    the local economic and local political and social will,

    -- Reagan still got the undeserved credit for it, that very visible "symbol of freedom."
    (... as they all ran to buy chunks of it.)


    Neo-cons still view the world's "geo-political chessboard" on those terms:

    -- that America needs to meet Might with Might;

    -- that we need to put unreachable Military Goals, above all else;

    So that THEY can claim the credit, when local events "go well" ...
    And run for the hills, when their follies create unexpected fallout, like ISIS (and Bin Laden), and leave locally broken lives and wrecked economies in their militarized wake.

    Those are somebody else's problems:  usually the "weak Dems" who did not follow their lead ... (just tune into Kristol or McCain any day of the week, especially Sundays -- to see how their blame-game is dealt.)


    Sooner or later were going to have to: Trade in those Carbon Footprints ...

    by jamess on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:44:30 AM PDT

    •  They also look to World War 2 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Trotskyrepublican, whl, Gentle Giant

      When Europe appeased the Nazis, and it only emboldened them to take more...

      of course, they ignore the other side of the world, where the US and Britain stood firm and refused to appease Japan... which only emboldened them to take more.

      Just goes to show there isn't an easy answer that's one-size-fits-all.  But the neocons think there is, and they feel certain they've got it.

      Nobody deserves poverty.

      by nominalize on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:51:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  people were genuinely scared of Hitler (5+ / 0-)

        WWI was well within living memory, and in the midst of an equally unprecedented depression - with populations ready for communist or fascist revolution - no-one was in the mood for another war.  Hitler's army went on to conquer all of Europe in 2 years and lost only 30,000 men in the process, so their fears were arguably justified.  London and Moscow also needed time to build up their own militaries for the war absolutely they knew was coming; so did the US if you buy the idea that Washington wanted in on the game from the beginning.  Taken at face value, Hitler's early demands were not themselves unreasonable; historically and heavily German lands had been vengefully carved off by the Treaty of Versailles and Austria was a rump state left over from Europe's second largest country pre-1918.  Germany was also in a bad place economically, with its industrial heartland de facto ceded to France and enormous war reparations - required to be paid in gold - fueling the monetary crisis.  

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:25:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I am old enough I was an adult (9+ / 0-)

      when the Berlin wall came down. I was in high school, actually, when we had the labor uprisings in Poland that probably, as much as any single factor, were the beginning of the end of the Cold War.

      The official line is that Reagan gets all the credit for "halting the menace of Communism." I just can't believe it, but I never see it challenged in any substantive way.

      "Come, come, whoever you are. Wanderer, worshiper, lover of leaving. It doesn't matter. Ours is not a caravan of despair. Come, even if you have broken your vows a thousand times. Come, yet again, come, come." --Rumi

      by karmsy on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:03:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The greatest cold warriors, (10+ / 0-)

        the ones that brought Communism to it's knees, were the Poles.

        Solidarnosc gets the obvious credit, and rightfully so, strikes, water cannons, and martial law all had their role.

        But the ones who never get mentioned are the smugglers. Poles selling tents, canned goods and coffee in the flea markets of western Europe had more to do with the fall of Communism than Reagan ever did.

        Lighter travel restrictions and easily corruptible border guards denuded Poland, and by extension, eastern Europe of everything of value that wasn't nailed down. The smugglers turned society upside down. A lawyer could make ten times as much running goods out of Poland and selling counterfeit jeans from Turkey than he could practicing law.

        Society stopped functioning as it had.

        When the Russians got involved, selling goods in Poland, which in turn were sold to the west, the writing was on the wall, and the system collapsed. People voted with their feet, yet few outside noticed.

        That's the secret history of the fall of Communism.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:06:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  To be fair (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Gentle Giant, karmsy, ivorybill

        Reagan was just pursuing the policies of every president since Truman.  I am old enough to have gone to high school in Germany before the Wall came down, and my initials are painted on some scrap of concrete now from when I spent time in West Berlin.

        It was a joint effort, from the NATO pushback to the efforts of the Prague Spring, Solidanosc, the Hungarian uprisings, the mujahideen who made Russians get sick of the Soviet system, to the the Estonians who refused the suicide mission to go clean up Chernobyl.  It wasn't Reagan alone by any stretch of the imagination

      •  I think I still have some Pewex bons (0+ / 0-)

        somewhere.

        … the NSA takes significant care to prevent any abuses and that there is a substantial oversight system in place,” Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), said August 23.

        by mosesfreeman on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 01:36:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Well, (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric Nelson, whl, jamess

      they reached adulthood then, but many of them never grew up.  Their attitudes are those of an overgrown 12 year old.

      I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

      by trumpeter on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:31:07 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  They also forget WWII was preceded by WWI (4+ / 0-)

      when the major powers thought a little war would tidy up the map and we're still tidying up the map 100 years later.

      •  ironically, the map was tidier before WWI (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Phoenix Woman, Gentle Giant

        Most of Central and almost all of Eastern Europe was divided up between four countries: the German, Austrian, Russian, and Ottoman empires.  After the war, Austria alone was broken up into 8 countries - all of which were going to be ethno-nationalist states, sowing the seeds for the ongoing Balkan bloodletting throughout the 20th Century - which then immediately plunged into recession during the Roaring Twenties since they all stopped trading with each other and with the real money in Vienna.

        Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

        by Visceral on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:30:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And it continues in the middle east and Asia (0+ / 0-)

          where the Islamic world hasn't gotten to have it's really big modernizing let's destroy it all and start over revolution.  The biggest folly of the neocons is assuming they can control a revolutionary era when they light the match.  It's like saying let's start the Russian Revolution and see what happens next.  What's the old saying God protects fools, drunks and the United States.  God might be getting a little fed up with us.

          •  the Muslim world has been trying for 50 years (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            earthling1

            The Ottoman Empire's strength was that didn't care about tribe, clan, ethnicity, or how you managed your private affairs; they were in charge period, but if you paid your taxes and you were a Muslim (or had powerful Christian Europe looking over the Sultan's shoulder) you had nothing to worry about.  So it all started when the Ottoman Empire fell and the West carved up the Middle East.  More than the issue of thoughtlessly drawn borders, the big fish - as pathetic as he was - was removed and not-so-big fish started to assert dominion over

            They tried pan-Arabism: Nasser and Sadat in Egypt, Qaddafi in Libya, the Baathists in Iraq, Syria, and elsewhere.  Big egos, but no unity: people resented the implicit emergence of a center of power in the Middle East and they resented "modernization" which they equated with "Westernization".  The rise of political Islam is de facto another attempt at bringing the Middle East under one banner.  If they'd happened in reverse order it might have worked: first religion builds a sense of pan-Muslim unity, then from a position of strength they engage with the West.

            It's entirely possible that there is no ground for a "proper" nation-state in the Arab world: the old tribe and clan system is too strong.  After all, historically the whole area was held together by religion, not politics.  Neither Turks nor Persians are Arab, and they historically ruled the Middle East and Central Asia respectively.  Europe has been post-tribal for so long the West really has forgotten how it all works where borders and governments mean nothing and blood ties - no matter how distant - decide who you follow and who you fight.

            Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

            by Visceral on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 12:37:57 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  seems to be a feature /nt (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    gerald 1969, side pocket, Eric Nelson

    We know a hell of a lot, but we understand very little. Manfred Max-Neef

    by mimi on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:46:13 AM PDT

  •  Frontline 2 hasn't helped connect the (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, Eric Nelson

    Right with reality, from what I saw of this episode. Those interviewed were from the Bush Administration, and their point was that Obama is doing it wrong.

    http://www.pbs.org/...

    "The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

    by Lily O Lady on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:56:34 AM PDT

  •  Well that was fun (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman

    Here's my last 30 seconds

    1.  Read diary title, noting it was by kos.
    2.  Opened diary, saw picture.
    3.  Pressed Ctrl-F to search for text, entered "Hillary", pressed Enter.
    4.  Was not disappointed.
    5.  LOL'd.
    6. Scrolled to bottom to type this.

    Next up:

    7.  Press Preview
    8.  Press Post
    9.  Close Diary

    You kids have fun now, y'hear?

    LOL.....another beautiful day on the Great Orange Satan.

    Ready for HIllary!

    Красота спасет мир --F. Dostoevsky

    by Wisper on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:02:40 AM PDT

  •  we need to keep troops in iraq (4+ / 0-)

    until we find saddam's wmds!

    The cold passion for truth hunts in no pack. -Robinson Jeffers

    by Laurence Lewis on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:08:50 AM PDT

  •  The neocons tried to prove their thoeries... (7+ / 0-)

    ...with the invasion of Iraq.  They were quickly proven wrong and it cost us $trillions (with a "t") plus all the blood, destruction and death.  Like a mad scientist they refuse to accept the results of their own experiment.

    And now HRC is talking like a member of the Project for a New American Century.

    As I said before, if she is the Dem candidate I would only focus in local races.  And if Rand Paul is the Repug candidate, things are going to get ultra messy.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action. UID: 9742

    by Shockwave on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:12:03 AM PDT

  •  Who was that (0+ / 0-)

    block quote from?

    I am not religious, and did NOT say I enjoyed sects.

    by trumpeter on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:24:26 AM PDT

  •  I would say "Why would they?" (13+ / 0-)

    What price did they pay?

    They know the Media and the Hill. All they had to do was bide their time until it was safe for them to come back. Fuck it, Bill Kristol never even took his turn in the penalty box.  

    Some days, you turn on the TV or open the paper and its like Iraq never happened.

    They can not only still go on TV and get paid to talk about foreign policy as "experts" and "scholars", but they can be the only game in town in some settings.

    That's it. The one guest on Candy Crowley or Wolf Blitzer's show for a segment is... somebody who claimed Iraq would be a war that turns the US a profit, would be won in two weeks, and turns a Middle Eastern land into Dayton Ohio.  

    They still get treated as if they know not just what the fuck they are talking about, but as if they were right.

    It's like living in a world where Dick Morris gets treated like Dick Morris thinks he deserves to be treated everywhere he goes.

    What NeoCon is too radioactive for CNN? MSNBC? ABC, CBS, and NBC News? The Washington Post or the New York Times?

    Kagan. Wolfowitz. Bremer. AEI foreign policy anti-wonks. Heritage foreign policy anti-wonks. Cheney Thing One and Cheney Thing Two. Judy Miller.

    Just about everyone who signed that goddamned People for A New American Century letter back in the day can go on tv now and lecture the people who got it right, many of whom are sitting screaming at the screens not in studio to rebut the lies.  

    If John Bolton wasn't in the Bush Administration, which is a bigger hack cock block than being catastrophically wrong about everything, but had spent those years outside of it working as a media foreign policy hack, he'd be as influential with non-Conservative media outlets as he was back in the day. Ditto for Paul Wolfowitz and Doug Feith.

    All the usual suspects are free to come on basic cable, Sunday Morning shows, and write Op/Eds as if the Iraq War wasn't a complete and total utter disaster and everything they said about it before, during, and after complete bullshit.

    It will be a complete shock in the Beltway when Chuck Todd is run out of town as a failure so Luke Russert can take over Meet The Press in 2018.

    THAT must be the problem. That is what consumes autopsies about why formerly bedrock Village institutions are seen as jokes. Not Lara Logan putting a sham on 60 Minutes. Not Liz Cheney being cited as a foreign policy expert. No.

    Meet the Press shit the bed because David Gregory just didn't know how to lick a boot in a way that connects with The Young People on The Twitter and The Faces Book.

    Right, Doug Feith? Ha. You card. Tell me about ISIS.

    Here's a fucked up thought.

    Every single should-be-discredited NeoCon could have a job inside a hypothetical Scott Walker or Jeb Bush Administration. Especially ones where bombs could be dropped on people because they think its a great idea.

    No wonder they won't let their fantasies go. It pays to be them.

    "Real journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." -George Orwell

    by LeftHandedMan on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:31:27 AM PDT

  •  "I'll give you my fantasies ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    whl, mosesfreeman

    when you pry them from my cold, dead skull."

    Neocons never surrender their fantasies


    I bought a suite made of crushed red velvet at a second hand store in a desperate attempt to keep its hopes and dreams alive.

    by glb3 on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 10:37:12 AM PDT

  •  imho kos deserves top comment, see below (4+ / 0-)

    One of the biggest problems conservatives have is that they confuse "I believe" with "the American people believe." While neocons may get aroused at the thought of killing and crushing and forcing people to "submit," the American people have zero appetite for yet another endless military adventure. That's not opinion, that's data-supported fact.

  •  ISIL envy; that's what it sounds like, as sick.. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    annieli, whl, vcmvo2, earthling1

    ..as that is
    "crushing his body and spirit." saber rattling was once a guaranteed political winner for the war chicken-hawks until the republican NRA sycophant fringe base discovered their own "warriors" mouthing these words and leading the parade were the two biggest panty-waists around - Bill Kristol & Charles Krauthammer, with McCain and Lindsey Graham as their MIC marrionettes in congress.

    Even the stupidest weekend warrior needs a better Rambo to cover the embarrassment of getting all aroused, flexing their demographically shrinking muscle in such a small parade, especially when ISIL (spawned by the GOP " de-bathification" agenda) fits as their perfect fantasy cartoonized war hero/idol better than most any current republican American "hero" does:

    It was because President George W. Bush and McCain were so mealy mouthed about the wars, refusing to crush bodies and spirits and force people to submit to their goals.

    If only they had been more bloodthirsty, the public would've been with them. For example, instead of pushing for 10,000 years of war in Iraq, McCain should've promised 100,000!

     - emphasis added

    So "surrender their fantasies"  - I hope not quite yet. Let them drown themselves in a bath tub

     - imo

  •  ISIS is indeed a feature to the neocons (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mosesfreeman, demongo

    Creating more terrorists is the goal. Endless war is a good thing. Having evil boogie men hiding under every bed, waiting to slit every Americans' throat, is a far too-handy tool to put back in the box.

    "I feel a lot safer already."--Emil Sitka

    by DaddyO on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:08:02 AM PDT

  •  Let's make a deal: (8+ / 0-)

    National Review columnist Bunghole West can gather all the freedom fighters willing to volunteer with the Iraqi army, and go crush them bodies and spirits, wth the caveat that they're on their own...no rescues.  Not that they'll need rescuing, since they're such mighty warriors.

    I'm sure they'll jump at the chance to be the heroes that saved America from what Bush called (when he started getting flak for the phrase War on Terror), "The Struggle Against Ideological Extremists Who Do Not Believe in Free Societies Who Happen To Use Terror As A Weapon To Try To Shake The Conscience Of The Free World."

    Go get 'em, patriots!  And take the Bundy ranchers with ya!

    -

  •  it's not just they (6+ / 0-)

    Hillary lost me when she made the neo-con statement that we ought to have armed the Syrian moderates.  Then Assad could have kept his chemical weapons and continued using them, and IS would now have purchased them with some targeted kidnappings.    And more of those moderates would be dead and IS would have those arms too.

    Moderates only survive in democracies where there is rule of law, they don't survive revolutions.  Look at Egypt?  Look at Africa? Moderates aren't ruthless, and they tend to argue with each other, and not just get behind the most ruthless of them.

    We have our own neo-cons, and we need to let them know that is sooo over.

    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

    by anna shane on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:13:09 AM PDT

  •  yo, Bing! What're you still doing here? (0+ / 0-)

    I thought I told you to go fuck your mother!!!

    If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? Rabbi Hillel the Elder, Ethics of the Fathers. Corporadeus

    by Floyd Blue on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:17:33 AM PDT

  •  Who will be the next CNN Neocon Interviewee? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza, kenwards

    I'm for the elegant Chickenhawk Paul Wolfowitz, who never met a war he didn't like and was ever ready to send other people to fight.

  •  Conana said it best.... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenwards, No one gets out alive

    When asked what is best in life:
    "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!"
    ...or was that John McCain quoting Leslie Graham?

  •  When was the last time a war ended this way? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenwards, IM

    "If you go to war, kill the opponent. Crush his body and spirit until he is destroyed or submits to your goals."

    Modern war isn't like this; the last time a war ended this way was WW2, and that ending included the use of atomic weapons.

    One could at least argue that the Iraq war had the potential to end with less bloodshed--if the architects of the war had had any interest in actually planning for an orderly end of the war and transitional government.  

    (Instead, the banker/VC they put in charge of Iraq decided to furlough the entire army and send them home--with all their weapons but no paychecks...)

    "When and if fascism comes to America...it will not even be called 'fascism'; it will be called, of course, 'Americanism'" --Professor Halford E. Luccock of Yale Divinity School; New York Times article from September 12, 1938, page 15

    by demongo on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:29:49 AM PDT

  •  "The Warrior Spirit?" (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenwards, Phoenix Woman, Gentle Giant, IM

    Mmmm.. I think the veterans of WW2 would nearly all agree that a conscripted army, from a largely isolationist and pacificst country, barely trained in the "warrior spirit" and sent overseas in 9 weeks after enlistment, played a significant part in defeating the most awesome display of "Warrior Spirit" ever seen in history.

    Bremer is a faith-based fantasist who needs to chat with Paul Fussell and a few other historians about what a Democratic Citizen Army does, and has done.

    Time to destroy the "Warrior Spirit Myth," again.

    Figures don't lie, but liars do figure-Mark Twain

    by OregonOak on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:31:17 AM PDT

  •  If Dick Cheney had gotten killed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenwards

    Say venturing from his bunker and going to Iraq, I imagine a significant number of neocons would get cold feet about going to war.  If that didn't get through to them, we could always imagine if McCain and Graham and a few others had gotten zapped while doing their photo ops in Baghdad. Unfortunately, neocons are smart enough to have legions of body guards to protect them from the riff raff, so we will never get a neocon body count high enough to ever dissuade these bloodthirsty loons.

  •  Why even a question? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kenwards, Phoenix Woman, Gentle Giant

    From the very beginning there was an organized effort to destroy Iraq as a functioning country and stable society.

    We (the military) wanted to use the Iraqi military because it was the one stable and respected organization in the society.  It was also generally seen as balanced between Sunni and Shia.  Solution - disband them.

    We knew that the vast majority of Baath party members were simply members to be able to work.  Want to be a school teacher?  Join the party.  We also knew that the people were taking care of "de-Baathification" one bad person at a time.  We wanted to transform that organizing expertise into something good.  Solution - bar them from future employment, effectively turning the educated expertise of the nation into an enemy.  

    We knew we needed to distance ourselves from the regime as quickly as possible including revoking some of the worst laws - things like rent controls (that really meant you had to rent below market rate to anyone Saddam liked).  We needed to send a message that the old crony ways were over and merit would be the new coin of the realm.  Solution - Direct that all existing laws are in force until otherwise modified.

    These three things - CPA Orders #1, #2 and #3 created the insurgency, destroyed the stable portions of society, denied the country the expertise to fix the nation and economy and ensured that old divisions were not just kept in place but intensified.  

    These were not accidents.  This was part of an effort to destroy Iraq, Iraqi society and the ability of Iraq to ever stand on its own.  A weak Iraq would make Iran seem a greater threat and justify action.  A weak Iraq would make Saudi Arabia afraid of both Iran and a Shia uprising spreading from Basra to Dammam.  A fearful Saudi Arabia is a free spending Saudi Arabia.  A fearful Saudi Arabia creates fear in the oil market.  Fear in the oil market increases prices.  Increased prices increases profits.  And it almost worked.....

    It is well that war is so terrible -- lest we should grow too fond of it. Robert E. Lee

    by ksuwildkat on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:32:40 AM PDT

  •  Being a Neocon (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Phoenix Woman, Gentle Giant, IM

    means never having to say you're sorry.

    Or ever rethinking your positions when they don't work out.

    Because as many have pointed out - their world view is built on faith, belief and how they want the world to be, not facts, reality or the way the world actually is.

    Their policies lead to always doing "stupid stuff". Stuff that gets our country in more trouble, causes more problems than it solves, and oh yeah, gets lots of people killed.

    Blue is blue and must be that but yellow is none the worse for it - Carlisle Wheeling

    by kenwards on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:34:32 AM PDT

  •  Cons love their Dolchstosslegende. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Gentle Giant, IM

    "We didn't lose, we were stabbed in the back!"

    The 1930s German conservatives said it about World War One.

    The McCainites say it about Vietnam.

    The Nixonites and Birchers say "Who Lost Russia/China/?".

    The Confederates and Neo-Confederates have saying it about the Civil War for nigh on a century and a half.

    Visit http://theuptake.org/ for Minnesota news as it happens.

    by Phoenix Woman on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 11:44:39 AM PDT

  •  ...submit to........our gods. (0+ / 0-)

    I think this is what the quoted person really has in mind.

  •  I honestly do not like being right so much. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Villabolo

    Folks might want to stock up on food and TP. The GOP can see the short term profit of racial conflict and will predictably and carelessly run with it. Problem is, as we all well know, control is an illusion.

    “...I'm glad I'm not afraid to be lazy!” ― Augustus Mc Crea, "Lonesome Dove"

    by nutherhumanbeing on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 12:00:30 PM PDT

  •  There is a much longer history with them (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earthling1, Angie in WA State

    The word "neocon" may not be appropriate. Most of these idiots are part of the original "clown car clan" created by Richard M. Nixon, and should be "paleoconz."

    Cheney was a parasitic toad to Rumsfeld's bullfrog in Nixon's Office of Economic Opportunity (1969-70).

    But, by 1970 Rumsfeld became a newly created weird "counsellor to the president," a cabinet-level job ginned up by the crazies. In 1973, as the rat-filled Nixon ship was sinking, Rummy escaped to become ambassador to NATO, giving him a whole new set of toys to play with. He became a defense planning expert and was privvy to nuclear planning by the North Atlantic Council.

    In 1974, D Rumsfeld did the transition for Pres. Ford, and then Dummy became Chief of Staff (1974-75) and failed upwards to Secretary of Defense (1975-77).

    Meanwhile, the toad trailed his leader. White House "staff assistant" (1971), assistant director for Cost of Living Council (1970-73), and weird "deputy assistant to the president" (1974-75). For 1975-76, the Dickie-bird became Chief of Staff, following Rummy Dummy. Cheney was Ford's 1976 campaign manager. After the lost election, Cheney won the congressional seat in Wyoming and served in the House until 1989.

    GHW Bush appointed Cheney as Secretary of Defense, effective March 1989 until 1993.

    In many ways, Cheney and Rumsfeld devised the US "orwellian" policy of constant war based on their beliefs that America is surrounded by enemies. "Bomb first and invent excuses later" is their mantra.

    We're all just working for Pharaoh.

    by whl on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 12:12:34 PM PDT

  •  Ghastly men (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    capelza

    reciting the cant of oppressors from time immemorial. At least their true warrior predecessors led the charge from the front instead of fueling the fear machine from their paneled think tank bunkers.

  •  marching off to war is a time-honored way (0+ / 0-)

    for the rich and powerful to rob the lower classes of prosperity.  If the rich and powerful want to have a war, let them go fight the thing.  I'll stay home and watch, thank you very much.

  •  War mongering has been a sad fact of (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    earthling1

    human existence going back to the rise of civilizations in the Nile Valley and Mesopotamia. In fact the Hebrew Bible chronicles war mongering and genocide on a mass scale in the name of religion. Deuteronomy Chapter 7 Verse 2 with no ambiguity tells the Israelites "and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally." Seven nations that were pagans. Gone. History. That's the problem with war mongering. It demands utter destruction of some enemy. Now the Greeks and Romans didn't practice war mongering in the way that we know it. Their policy was an imperial colonial policy that demanded the Hellenization or Romanization of the defeated nations. However if a captive nation rebelled, all bets were off. A thousand years later, the Mongol hordes revived total war. So since then when it comes to war mongering it's all or nothing.

    Hitler, not counting his annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia, conquered all of Europe between September 1939 and the summer of 1941. When he invaded the soviet union in June 1941 it was total war, the total destruction of the Slavic and Jewish peoples. Because Stalin was an ass, Hitler came very close to succeding.

    Now we have our own asses today in the US, better known as neoconservatives. The way I see it, this kind of war mongering dove tails with our domestic security policies in the militarization of our local law enforcement agencies. In fact, Hannah Arendt in her book, The Origins of Totalitarianism, shows how domestic law enforcement can very easily become a secret police arm of the leader's political party. This is why we aren't hearing much from the tea baggers about the militarization of local law enforcement other than the libertarian wing of the tea baggers. This is because for the present, the militarized police are going after blacks, Muslims, and poor whites. All it will take now to turn the US into a totalitarian state is the election of a megalomaniacal president without a conscience.

    Knowledge is Power. Ignorance is not bliss, it is suffering. If you like hypocrite Obama, you'll love hypocrite Hillary.

    by harris stein on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 01:12:20 PM PDT

  •  "The only question...feature or bug." Bingo. n/t (0+ / 0-)

    Isn't it a good feeling when you see the paper in the morning, it says 'Axe Slayer Kills 19' and you say, "They can't pin that one on me!" - Jean Shepherd

    by razajac on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 03:04:57 PM PDT

  •  Feature, most definitely a feature and not a bug (0+ / 0-)

    Because without a War the damned MIC doesn't have anywhere to sell their fucking weapons of War.

    And the biggest, baddest Military in the history of the world will buy MORE of all their products than any 20 or so of the next biggest Militaries in the world combined.

    So yeah, feature.

    "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

    by Angie in WA State on Fri Aug 15, 2014 at 09:43:40 PM PDT

  •  It doesn't matter (0+ / 0-)

    Rebaggers precede every comment with "the American people..."

    We should learn that, and have dueling American people.

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