Trevor Noah’s interview with Tomi Lahren was a thing of beauty. Here’s how good it was: Watching Trevor work was like watching a Master Class in Verbal Jiu Jitsu. Stephen Colbert could not have delivered the best lines of the night any better than Trevor Noah did. Sir Anthony Hopkins would have had a hard time dissecting Tomi Lahren with more panache.
Not even ten seconds into the interview, Tomi opened with a snide remark and he slapped her, ohh so gently with a back handed aside:
Noah: Please welcome Tomi Lahren!
Tomi: [as she sits down] I’m in the lion’s den, Trevor.
Noah: I’m not a lion at all... Is that an African thing? [audience laughs] Ummm, welcome to the show…
Then he really introduced her.
Noah: If you don’t know Tomi Lahren, here’s a taste of her show….
And we are treated to a 30-second clip with begins with this tidbit:
The “protesters” are out in force, but let’s be honest, they’re not protesters, they’re crybabies with nothing better to do than meander around the streets with their participation trophies and false sense of purpose…
She then launched into a rant of how this all started with the Occupy brats… which is kind of where I tuned out for a second because I could have sworn there were protests against the war in Iraq back in the early part of the 21st century, protests in the 80s against Reaganomics, protests in the 70s against the war in Vietnam, protests in the 60s in favor of civil rights, protests in the 50s against the atomic bomb, protests in the 30s in favor of WWI veterans benefits…. in fact the Bonus Army was very much like Occupy Wall Street in many ways…. but I let that thought go in time to hear her finish up with this bon mot:
And now here we are, November of 2016 with president-elect Donald Trump and a crowd of misfit babies formed from every failed movement all sandwiched together to become the largest group of whiners the country has ever seen…
The clip ended and we came back to the show. Tomi grabbed the initiative…..
Tomi: That pretty much covers it. Doesn’t it, Trevor?
A pattern is emerging. Tomi’s clip was little more than a rant at full steam with barely a pause for punctuation but Trevor’s response is pure gold. No histrionics, no mugging for the camera, no shock and awe, barely any emotion. He simply leans in slowly and says in a calm, gentle voice….
Noah: Quick question…. Like, why are you so angry?
Over the audience’s laughter, Tomi’s response comes across as so out of touch that it borders on delusional.
Tomi: I’m actually not angry. There are just some things that need to be said.
Noah: But in an angry way. You can’t say you’re not angry. That’s what you’re known for. That’s like Ellen saying “I don’t like dancing.” Yes, Ellen you do. You really do. [audience laughing louder] You are angry… about everything, it seems.
She attempts to defend herself against the charge, but it is clearly half-hearted. Nonetheless, he lets her have her say. Then he opens up a new line.
Noah: You consider yourself a conservative. [Pause……..]
Tomi: [Pause…..] I do.
Noah: [Beginning his line of questioning] OK…..
Tomi: [Jumps in and swings off balance] I mean I’m a millennial so I don’t really like labels but I’m conservative in thought.
This is where everything goes south for the poor dear. Life Tip: When you go up against a guy who speaks 8 languages from such diverse linguistic categories as English, German, Xhosa, Zulu, Sotho and Afrikaans, you really need to have your arguments well crafted. Or you get this blinding fast retort:
Noah: [Tilting his head to the side and savoring the delicious irony like a man who ordered a Sauvignon Blanc suddenly realizing he has been gifted a Touraine-Chenonceaux.] Sorry….my brain…. you just gave a label to say you don’t like labels….
Tomi fumbled in a vain attempt to recover mumbling something about liberals and calling yourself a liberal… but he waved her off like a little puppy….
Noah: No, no, no, no, It’s just funny, It’s funny. It was a funny moment
The subtext: It was funny because it was ironic, but you ruined the moment, let’s move on. And move on, he does. Pivoting to the Black Lives Matter movement and Tomi’s apparent enthusiasm for attacking it, he opens with:
Noah: For someone who is not racist, you have to spend an awful lot of time saying “I’m not racist.” What is your biggest issue with Black Lives Matter?
That’s actually a fair and direct question. She could have answered with a direct simple answer, but it’ painfully clear Tomi is a one trick pony. She comes charging back with a flurry of words. It started off with good intentions...but “hands up don’t shoot” is a false narrative... and this turns into rioting, looting, and burning things. Damn, that escalated quickly. But the Doctor is In and it’s time to slice and dice.
Noah: You said “they had good intentions”….How are you labeling the actions of a few and condemning an entire group?
Completely unable to defend that inane position, Tomi’s response is to wave the red flag of fallen officers.
Tomi: I saw it in my city of Dallas. I saw what a Black Lives Matters protest looked like. And I saw five fallen officers because of it.
To a lesser man, this might be the sort of argument that stops you cold. Who is going to trivialize the death of police officers? But Trevor is no ordinary man. He doesn’t diminish the death of the officers, in fact, he doesn’t even take the bait. He tries to reiterate the point that it is not fair to pick a single actor and use them to tar the whole movement. But she is having none of it. His response is beautiful. He flips the script and pulls the rug out from under Tomi with a flourish.
Noah: You’re the same person who argued on your show that just because Donald Trump has supporters from the KKK doesn’t mean he’s in the KKK.
And the crowd goes wild! That sweet piece of work dispatching her nonsense is as blistering and lethal as Tommy Morrison’s 9th round knock out against Razor Ruddick in 1995. Ruddick was swinging with all his might, throwing a mean combination that looked like it was scoring serious points when... BOOM down he went. You have to watch the tape two or three times to see the knock out. It’s that fast and clean. If you missed that fight, just imagine what happened when Hearns knocked out Duran in the 2nd round of their fight in 1984. Same thing. If you didn’t see either fight, remember the time Rumsfeld went on Stephen Colbert’s show? Remember how devastating it was? Trevor’s interview of Tomi was kind of like that. If you are still having trouble visualizing what happened, imagine the opening (and final) scene from Bambi Meets Godzilla.
Ever the gentleman, Trevor doesn’t leave her flat on the mat, but offers her a hand up and asks her
Noah: What do you wish that people would understand about you that they don’t
Sadly our one trick pony can’t take the opportunity handed to her and use it to her advantage. She clearly doesn’t realize he is handing her a get out of jail free card. Instead, she tosses out another rapid fire rant about how she isn’t racist (see his comment above) and she brings up Colin Kaepernick. Then she goes on more of a rant defending herself from charges of racism and ends with…..
Tomi: To me, true diversity is diversity of thought, not color. I don’t see color.
The crowd is so busy howling with laughter it’s hard to hear her final line.
Trevor, waiting for the laughter to die down, bides his time and here’s where the genius shines through. You know he’s going to have a come back. You know it’s going to be bad. You know she isn’t going to survive this.
Noah: [set up] You don’t see color? [and slam dunk] What do you do at a traffic light?
It may be hard to believe Tomi doesn’t see color, but I have no doubt she didn’t see that coming. That’s the kind of blow that is so bad it hurts your mother’s feelings. The audience laughed for almost 10 seconds on that one. At this point, all I could think was “Gee, Tomi, that was one hell of a rookie mistake.” I guess this is where it all ended for Tomi. Now you know why you should never poke the bear. This is where Trevor clearly decided he was not going to play patty cake anymore.
Noah: Do you really believe you are criticizing when you say ‘Black Lives Matter is the new KKK’? You realize Black Lives Matter can’t be the NEW KKK. The KKK is still around.
Tomi responds as expected, with a high speed rant of disjointed talking points drawing false equivalencies between BLM and KKK. When Trevor points out that is really diminishing what the KKK does and what it stands for Tomi steps in it again
Tomi: What does the KKK do?
Noah: [incredulous] Did you just say “What does the KKK do?” Wow.
The crowd at this point is just laughing and Tomi valiantly tries to regain her footing. Trevor sits there and lets her flail. When she tried to shift the initiative and tried to use a straw man argument, everything just went up in smoke.
Tomi: When you’re saying, when there are people in the street saying, “If you see a white person beat their ass.” does that not sound reminiscent of the KKK motives to you?
Pay attention kids, here is where the youthful pedant gets schooled. Word of advice: If you want to make a strong argument don’t end with a rhetorical question using a 25 cent word in an archaic construct. You may confuse dumb people who have to ponder the meaning of the word reminiscent, but it ain’t gonna slow down a guy who speaks eight languages and used to read the dictionary for fun. I’m sure that pedantically worded awkward sentences just piss him off. That gets you a straight right punch in the mouth.
Noah: Is that the narrative of Black Lives Matter, or are their people who are saying that in a crowd of other human beings? There is a distinction between a movement and the people. That is something we keep coming back to.
Now, I have never met Trevor Noah’s mother. But I would not be surprised if it is her voice we are hearing in his response. It’s full on professorial. And here is where he delivers the “teachable moment” in a beautiful display of the Socratic Method. He doesn’t challenge her beliefs. He doesn’t demean her. He doesn’t mock her. Picking up on her mention of Kaepernick, he asks a simple question.
Noah: I watch your videos and here is something I truly don’t understand. You say Colin Kaepernick is exercising his first amendment rights and you are exercising your first amendment rights to criticize him. So what you are saying is “You have the right to say anything you want, so shut up.”
Tomi: No. Not at all. I’m saying I don’t agree with what he did…..
Up to that point she is actually starting to sound like she might make a good point. But she opens herself up wide and Noah is waiting for the moment which he knew was coming….
Tomi: ….but I think he went about it the wrong way. I don’t think he….
Noah: [Seizing the opening] What is the right way? I’m always fascinated when people say that… what is the right way for a black person to get attention in America?
Smelling blood, the crowd roars and applauds, knowing this is the end. Even Tomi knows it is falling apart, so she does what people caught in her position always do. She wraps herself in the flag.
Tomi: Taking it out on our flag and our national anthem, to me….
Noah: But how?
Tomi: Why would you take out your perceived oppression of black people on the national anthem and our flag? A country that you live in? A country that you benefit from? A country that people of all races have died for? Have died to protect. Have died for the vote, died to be enfranchised by this nation. How do you then go and disrespect the flag and the anthem of that country? Why is that the outlet?
The diversionary tactic of serving up a Gish Gallop wrapped in the flag, seasoned with a dollop of red herring and sprinkled with an appeal to pathos might sound like a good idea, but it’s not. Toss in another 25 cent word in an archaically worded passive voice and you are really asking for trouble. Professor Trevor doesn’t disappoint. Today’s lesson: History
Noah: Maybe you’re a person who has lived and read through history and you realize a lot of those people of every color who died for this country, some of them didn’t have the rights their fellow servicemen had when they came back to the country after fighting for it. Maybe you’re one of those people who realizes that the penal system in America was designed to oppress black people, that it was designed to enslave people, and that it was a relic of slavery. Maybe you’re one of those people.
But what I don’t understand is a guy who is kneeling in the corner, why that offends you so much. It’s not like he’s trying to sing over you... He’s kneeling in the corner by himself. Why does that offend you so much?
Tomi: For me, I know what that flag means to me. I know what that flag means to those who are fighting for our country right now. It’s bigger than a piece of cloth. It’s a symbol of patriotism. Our national anthem means a lot to a lot of people. It’s got a lot of people through some very hard times. And this country, it’s got its scars, it’s got its wounds, it’s got its history, but I still believe it’s the greatest nation on the face of the earth, and I believe if you live in this country you can want to better it but to disrespect our flag and our anthem in that way cannot be your outlet to get out whatever aggression you have, whether it be passive or active aggression. I disagree with it.
He has every right to do it. That’s his first amendment right and I agree with his first amendment right to do it, I just don’t agree with what he did so now I should shut up because I’m white? So I should shut up? I shouldn’t be able to talk about black issues because I’m white?
Here the crowd really turns on her and starts to growl. Sensing the rising tide of hostility, Trevor deftly deflects it to get a laugh while still pressing his point the way a gladiator finishes an opponent already on their back
Noah: Nobody brought up whites at all. I never said that. [pause] I don’t see color.
Stephen Colbert could not have delivered that line any better. The cascade of laughter that bit of verbal jiu jitsu generates breaks the flow and gives him a chance to hit her where she is clearly wide open. So he does.
Noah: I don’t think that is what the argument is. I asked you one question and that is “How should a black person bring up their grievances?” That’s all I asked. How?
You know this isn’t going to go any better than the last attempt, but it’s going to be fun to watch — like a car crash at NASCAR.
Tomi: What he said was he is protesting the anthem and the flag because of the oppression of black people in this country. I would like him to further explain what he is talking about when he talks about black oppression in this country…
Noah: But he has…
Tomi: Is it against the police, the government? I’m not sure. I’d love to have him come on my show and discuss it with me. To me, when you make the flag and you make the anthem the outlet for your anger, or the outlet that you are going to protest your country that you live in, that you reside in, and that you take 19 million dollars a year from, I don’t think that is a correct outlet for your anger.
You remember when you were in school and you had an exam question you couldn’t answer, but you figured you might at least get partial credit if you filled the page up with a bunch of words? Remember how that worked out? Well this doesn’t work any better for Tomi. I know. You’re shocked, right?
Noah: Again, you haven’t answered my question of “How?” ... I’m just asking if you’ve ever thought of the “How?” That’s all I’m asking.
Having blown this the last few times, how does she do on the re-test?
Tomi: For me, I think there are a lot of people in this country, as a woman I didn’t have rights after black people until women got the right to vote but because I feel like I’m a woman and I’m marginalized in some way, I don’t protest my country. I don’t see what he’s protesting. I would like to know exactly what he is protesting. It is a very ….
Trevor realizes the lights are on, but no one’s home, yet he gives it one last shot.
Noah: So how do you protest?
Tomi: I don’t protest! I’m not a victim!
Realizing she has no answer and he’s just going to beat a dead horse, Noah wraps up with a gracious acknowledgement that she has won. Literally. Trump has won and he asks if she believes he will follow through on his promises. To her credit, Tomi shows enough savvy to keep her distance and merely says she will criticize him if he doesn’t. But she offers Trevor a final comedic shot when she talks about how Trump really “grabs people.”
Noah: Yes he does.
Here is where a really good exit laugh — something Stewart excelled at delivering — gets totally screwed up because Tomi “Final Thoughts” has to have the last word, adding insult to injury, her trashy side rears its ugly head.
Tomi: Hillary could use a little of that now and then, right? But Bill’s a little busy. Bill’s a little busy.
The look on Noah’s face speaks volumes. I can’t tell if it’s disgust mingled with disdain or the other way around. His lack of eye contact even when they shake hands just underscores it. Speaking of the hand shake, here’s the weird part. After she shakes his hand with Noah, she makes this odd hand washing motion as if she has just touched something dirty. She may not see color, but I can’t help wonder if she doesn’t like how it feels.
In the final analysis, I give Tomi credit for getting outside her bubble. Too bad she picked Trevor Noah for her first foray. I guess she will go the Rush route and stay away from opposing points of view and live studio audiences. She has a lot to learn before she is ready for prime time. Hell, she has a lot to learn before she is ready for basic cable.