Once again it’s time for a Saturday night $27-group / Political Revolution open thread, featuring some inspiring quotes, some good music, and a picture or two of foresterbob’s cat Noble Fur.
Usually I feature political quotes in these diaries, and usually I encode the new quotes before posting them so that folks who like to decipher secret messages can have some fun and good mental exercise along to go with the quotes.
But last week half the quotes I spotlighted were political ones from people in the real world and half the quotes were from valued Kossacks about things in the Daily Kos world. This week all the quotes are from valued Kossacks about things in the Daily Kos world. And this week, like last week, none of the quotes are encoded; they’re all in plain text form, for easier reading.
As those of you who read last week’s $27 Quotes, or who read Bob Johnson’s diary Some crazy-ass banning going on, or who read Cthulhu’s diary Please consider reinstating mahakali overdrive, or who read Arilca Mockingbirds diary 8 days later, delphine, Mahakali Overdrive & KnotIookin are still banned, a number of long-time members of our Daily Kos community got nuked last a week and a half ago.
Steven D and bobswern were two other victims of the nuclear incident, and I believe their banning is as mistaken, and as harmful to our community, as the bannings of delphine, Mahakali Overdrive, and KnotIookin, but tonight’s diary is dedicated to the three wonderful women some are calling The Three Amigas.
But they aren’t the ones being quoted! No, tonight’s spotlight is on inspiring quotes from other members of the Daily Kos community. Some of the quotes come from people who have often agreed with The Three Amigas, but I am especially pleased to feature quotes from people who more often disagreed (sometimes rather heatedly) but who still had the courage, decency, enlightened attitude and family spirit to speak out on behalf of these members of our community who were suddenly banned with no explanation. (Ten days later, despite repeated requests, there is still no explanation.)
Before I continue, I’d like to mention for the sake of anyone unfamiliar with these $27 Quotes diaries that these are intended to be positive. Usually I feature political quotes that I think are uplifting statements about progressive principles, policies and politicians. These diaries are about spotlighting people who have said good things worth remembering, not about attacking people in our progressive community who have said or done things we disagree with.
Tonight’s diary is intended as a tribute to the Three Amigas and a spotlight on the many good people who have spoken out in their support; it is not meant to be an attack either on Kos or the help desk people.
I have a great deal of respect for the help desk people, and while I wish they were able to answer the questions many of us have raised over in the help desk about why these bannings occurred I understand that they may not be able to do that. If you comment on this diary please do so in a spirit of honoring these women, and honoring the people who have spoken honorably in the help desk threads and here on the main site. If you want to say things critical of the site or site management, there are many other places better suited for that than tonight’s diary. Thank you!
Well! After such a wordy introduction, and realizing there are a lot more words ahead, how about a little good music? Here’s one of my favorite Peggy Seeger songs, as sung by Judy Small.
“… And they’re fighting for their families,
They’re fighting for their friends.
And they won’t stop, no they won’t stop,
‘till this nuclear madness ends…”
I find that very inspiring. Here are some quotes I think go very well with that song:
Delphine has been here 12 years, made 26K comments, and has 149 followers. Mahakali Overdrive has been here 9 years, made 45K comments, and has 456 followers. Both are major presences on DKos. They sometimes get partisan or passionate, but they are fundamentally decent, kind, and responsive. Each of them is friends with many kossacks who strongly disagree with them on many issues, but still trust them for their caring hearts and sharp minds. Delphine and mahakali overdrive have added considerable value to DKos, and engaged their full humanity in this community. If your bans of them are final, they will both be widely missed, and we will be a smaller and less colorful community without them.
~ Brecht
…
I was speculating in the Village thread about why these bannings happened. In contrast to most of these folks, I voted Clinton in the primary. But I don't get it. Looking through comment histories, the only one that I thought was even remotely close to bannable was bobswern, and he's been saying that kind of thing for years.
Though I can speculate about off-site stuff (which might make sense depending on what was said) or delayed primary-pie purges (which definitely don't make sense, I mean, come on, that's in the past), really I don't know what happened. So I think the administrators at the very least owe the community an explanation for this.
If the explanation isn't highly convincing, I think most if not all of these bans should be rescinded.
~ DiesIrae
…
Whatever is going on I hope its resolved and all of you are back commenting. Even though I often disagree with you I can't recall any of you being rude, resorting to name calling etc, and there may even have been an occasion or two when I had to admit I was wrong.
~ Dfh1
and also from Dfh1:
Really sorry this is happening to any of you...
Honestly, if people get banned for being divisive, there'd be hardly anyone left on this site, including the owner.
Anyway, Hope this gets resolved and you're back making comments soon, even when you piss me off I enjoy your writing and your point of views at least make me think.
…
Please add me to the list of people who are interested in learning why long-time Kossacks who've made very substantial contributions on this website have been banned. That includes delphine, bobswern, KnotIookin, Mahakali Overdrive. I echo delphine's request that this be explained publicly.
~ subir
…
Wow. I am very inept at most of these things, so I had no idea this had happened or who had been banned. I agree with many others that Delphine & MO should not be banned. Even more, I think people should get *some kind* of explanation.
~ ChrisTS
…
Want to add my support for
- at least an explanation of the banning;
- reversal for users that were recently banned.
I have strong disagreements with some of them, but they have not, to my knowledge, been abusive and strong disagreements don't merit banning.
To those of you banned or who are worrying about being banned: I wasn't on The Village diary that discussed this, but I read the comments this morning -- most of the comments were supportive of the people banned and said it didn't seem fair…
Anyway, good luck and know that there are people on your side no matter whom we supported in the primaries.
~ Tamar
and another comment from Tamar, a little later:
To Delphine: we are a community and we should support each other. Hope it gets worked out and hope to see you back on DK.
I think that’s an especially important one. So did someone else…
Many thanks, Otteray Scribe, for your kind and generous offer to help with a clearing house contact.
Also, many thanks to Tamar, for her reminder that, first and foremost, we are a community no matter if we differ. After all, think how very boring it would be if everyone said the same thing.
And, to the mods, I think there must have been some mistake. I hope it can be corrected and soon and that all those banned can come back home, to DK. We are the poorer without them. Thank you.
~ Portlaw
… I’m going to paws for a moment before posting more quotes so you folks can re-read and reflect on what Tamar and others have said in these help desk comments.
I don't know any of the people who were banned on Wednesday beyond interactions with some of them on the site so I'm as much in the dark as everyone else. As others have pointed out in this thread, the list includes some extremely thoughtful and well-informed people who have contributed a lot to the site over the years…
The opaque way that the banning of long-term users is being handled is creating the impression, fairly or unfairly, that moderation decisions are agenda-driven and capricious. I encourage the staff to rethink how they handle the banning of regular contributors, and take a look at how similar moderation decisions are carried out at other large political sites.
~ Lost and Found
…
I'm so sorry that this happened to you delphine, we miss you. I'd like to see this community get past all of this, it's long past time to bury the hatchet, ultimately we're all on the same side. and it's a shame to lose good strong Democratic voices here.
I'm as guilty as any of pie-fights and pushbacks, but I'm dialing it back, as are most others here. The real problem I think is just a very few fire-starters on both sides who can't get over 2016, and delphine certainly isn't one of them.
~ mosesfreeman
…
I am thinking that we should propose to Admin a new policy -- that when someone has been here for a good while and participated a lot (there should be written thresholds for this, e.g., been here at least a year and posted at least x number of comments and received an average of at least x.x recs per comment), and that they have only a single (or some very small number over a long period of time) of hidden comments, they should get a written explanation of the why they were banned, which they can choose to share or not.
~ Tamar
…
I agree with Tamar, and God knows I've had my disagreements with several of the newly banned. Not a good thing at all, and I think there should either be an explanation or a reversal.
~ Ellid
…
I still hope this can get straightened out. And I agree that keeping this secretive gives a very bad impression...
I'm not great at recalling who's who - especially when some of the handles are difficult to memorize. But, I do 'know' delphine, MO, and Bob J. I don't think any of them deserved to be banned.
~ ChrisTS
…
Admins - if you're worried about confidentiality of the banned users' information or online activities (which is totally reasonable), you should at least explain the bans to the people who were banned and then announce, here, that explanations have been provided. That's the minimum they deserve and it should eliminate confidentiality issues.
~ DiesIrae
…
It is very disappointing to see Mahakali Overdrive and delphine, both women who have made valuable contributions to this community over the years, now banned from the site for reasons unknown.
It would be beneficial to the community to at the least have an explanation as to why or what rules these women violated.
DailyKos needs more voices of women, not fewer. I sincerely hope kos and his staff will reconsider these sanctions.
~ igualdad
…
This seems capricious and is unwarranted.
~ susans
A number of trolls came into the help desk thread, and DiesIrae said something in reply which very much bears repeating and remembering:
To the people coming in here gloating about this: stop. Now. I don't care what your ideological preferences are, it isn't right to ban long-time community members without explanation. At the very least these users deserve a message from the administrators, which it sounds like they have not received (and in my opinion, unless there's something I don't know about, the majority of the bans should be rescinded).
I disagree on some issues with a lot of the people who were banned. But if we don't advocate for the respectful treatment of people we disagree with, we're not going to be able to maintain a strong, diverse community.
…
Banning without explanation to the banned is bush league and cowardly, and leaves the users who remain wondering how long before they will cross the invisible line that only admins can see.
Supporters of both Sanders and Clinton believe their side has been targeted over the last year. This site will lose whatever effectiveness it might have if users lose confidence in it. Official silence about these bans is absolutely the worst, most self-destructive policy imaginable.
~ Laughing Gravy
…
C'mon, Admin. This isn't fair. This isn't right. You banned mahakali overdrive, delphine, and Knotlookin for virtually no reason that we can figure out…
Please, at the very least, give these women the courtesy of informing them why they were banned. They have been fairly active, productive members of this community for years and years and years, and you just throw them out on their asses?
FOR WHAT? WHY?!
This community and these three women, especially them, are owed an explanation. "We don't feel like talking about it" simply won't do.
~ Colorado Is The Shiznit
…
To treat long-time members, who have contributed a great deal of intelligent discourse to DK, in this inexplicable manner, without explanation , damages the credibility of the site.
~ La Urracca
…
It does pain me to see people whom I respect (although not always agree with) get banned for no discernible reason. Just the other day I finally got Delphine to rec one of my comments! I consider that progress. (Actually not snark.)
While it is true that I clearly don't think the same way that Delphine does, her's is a voice that we need.
And I miss M.O. a lot. I knew she was in Europe on vacation, but that's raw to ban someone while they're gone AND THEN NOT EVEN GIVE A REASON.
~ polecat
…
None of us like the decision to ban M.O. I certainly don't understand Delphine's situation, either. (Don't know enough to speak to the others.)
These are our friends -- whichever side of the increasingly irrelevant Primary we happen to be on, THESE ARE OUR FRIENDS and we think highly of them because we have a lot of reason to.
~ polecat
…
@Knotlookin
I owe you an apology.
In the now current thread on the main board, I went and dug up an old comment...to people please or so that people would have some sort of rationale...mosly because it was a memorable comment...
It was wrong of me to dig up old history in that fashion...heck, in light of some of this stuff ltely, who know what people might find in my old history.
I set you out front and center and it was very, very wrong...I apologize and I would like for you to return.
~ Chitown Kev
...
Late as usual, but just wanted to let you know I hope that you, delphine, and m.o., and knotlookin all get reinstated. After having spent the past two days reading diaries and help-desk threads about these bannings, I'm not expecting a response from the admins, either. This was once a community.
~ sidnora
…
And lastly, here’s a good exchange of comments between two people who had plenty of fights and can still support each other when the chips are down. There was a rather foul troll comment (that I’m not going to reprint here) which appeared first. Then:
Hey you guys, mahakali, delphine, inclusiveheart and the others: we've had our differences, sure, but you guys go way back and as best I can tell, those disagreements didn't bear on your value to the community as best I could tell.
So I'd like to go on the record as supporting your reinstatement. Whether I personally agree with every thought you may have is immaterial, what matters is that you're a part of this movement, strong and courageous voices, it appalls me that you're no longer among us.
Dear admin: please bring them back. Thank you.
~ MBNYC
...
MB, you sure you want to weigh in on a thread that has comments like the one above yours? lol
Sincere thanks for your support, though this thread is really getting gross.
~ Delphine
...
@delphine: yes, I do want to weigh in, because I feel it's important. You and I don't necessarily agree on the details of a given policy, but there's no doubt in my mind at least that your heart is in the right place.
And I would additionally argue that getting support from the other side of the political divide is important. I'm saying it here and on the main site: I stand with you, with all of you. We are a community, and that is all that matters. Hang in there, and give my love to the others, please :-)
~ MBNYC
…
As usual, I’ll close things out with some music. I’ve been featuring some of my favorite anti-war songs in the past few $27 Quotes diaries, partly because several of us were reminiscing about some favorite anti-war songs a while back in a different comment thread. So this next song was already in my mind.
But when I thought about the words, I realized it’s also a very appropriate song to close this diary out with…
Here’s a little history related to this song and how it came about.
The US had been involved in Vietnam since 1954, when the French withdrew in defeat and we stepped in. But the US public wasn’t paying too much attention to it in the ‘50s or early ‘60s (since we were only sending “advisers” to help good Christians keep control of a largely non-Christian country which would surely go Communist if we didn’t give them “advice”, and if Vietnam fell to the Communists then obviously all of Southeast Asia would fall to the Communists...)
But in 1965 Lyndon Johnson began seriously escalating the war in 1965, and things quickly got worse and kept on getting worser. A lot more people began paying attention.
A lot of good anti-war songs came out during the Vietnam War. This is one Pete Seeger wrote and began performing in 1967.
Seeger was invited to sing it on the Smothers Brothers’ comedy/variety tv show but after the taping was done the CBS higher-ups decided the song was too political and wanted to censor it. Even though the most of the song is about a platoon of soldiers during World War II, they thought the song was really about the Vietnam War and was taking a poke at Lyndon Johnson. (They were right; it was.) So the song wound up being cut from the program; but in 1968 they relented and let him perform it, including even the controversial closing lines which at first they’d insisted had to be cut.
Listening to the song again, those closing lines strike home. I can’t help thinking of things today, both at Daily Kos and in the Democratic Party… But I’d like to keep this diary positive, so (like Pete Seeger) I’ll leave it there and let you enjoy the song:
Ah, but every time I read the papers,
That old feeling comes on
Like we’re...
Waist deep in the Big Muddy...
And the big fool says to push on.
Next week, $27 Quotes will return to politics and cryptograms.