In a post-Nunberg interview with MSNBC’s Chuck Todd Tuesday, longtime Trump ally Roger Stone was even-keeled, totally in control and considerably more boring than the slow-rolling media train wreck of his protégé that captivated political observers Monday. But Stone's cold calculations were as illuminating in their precision as Sam Nunberg's meltdown was in its emotional enormity. If the underling freaked out under the weight of Robert Mueller's Russia probe, his mentor sought to cut the ties that bind him to it.
Here's a few points to keep in mind about Stone’s interview with Todd:
1) Stone devoted time to explicitly noting he had separated from the Trump campaign and had shown his resignation letter at the time to two separate journalists, presumably to establish that whatever actions he took were separate from the campaign. In reality, Stone’s actions were as separate, perhaps, as those of Carter Page, Paul Manafort and George Papadopoulos—all of whom the White House has discredited as players in the Trump campaign because they weren't paid.
2) Todd asked Stone explicitly why he reached out to Guccifer 2.0 (a Russian-linked cyper spy that has taken credit for hacking the DNC) and WikiLeaks, but Stone avoids the topic altogether and never comes close to explaining why he contacted either one of them during this interview. (Marcy Wheeler has a deep dive on this point here.)
3) In fact, Stone doesn't want to talk about Guccifer at all. (Again, Wheeler.)
4) Instead, Stone keeps his focus on WikiLeaks but is rather desperate to paint the operation as a paragon of journalistic excellence rather than a tool of Russian President Vladimir Putin, which is exactly how the U.S. intelligence community views the outfit. CIA director Mike Pompeo has called WikiLeaks a "non-state hostile intelligence service." Here’s Stone denying treason:
Chuck, I’ve been accused of being a dirty trickster. There’s one trick that’s not in my bag. That’s treason. I have no knowledge or involvement with Russians. ...
Of course, part of that denial could rest on one's definition of who is and isn't Russian. In Stone's assessment, it would not be treasonous to interact with Julian Assange/WikiLeaks because they're journalistic in nature, not Russian.
Say this about Julian Assange. I reject the idea that he's a Russian asset. I reject the idea that Wikileaks is a Russian front. I think that he's a journalist, a courageous journalist, and frankly his track record for accuracy and authenticity is superior than "The New York Times" or "The Washington post." [...]
...for it to be a treasonous act, Assange would have to be provably a Russian asset, and Wikileaks would have to be a Russian front and I do not believe that’s the case. [...]
This is all based on a premise that Wikileaks is a Russian front and Assange is a Russian agent. As I said, I reject that. [...]
Perhaps, one reason Stone is so emphatically trying to reframe WikiLeaks rather than deny any involvement with the site is that he can't deny involvement. He, in fact, exchanged direct messages with WikiLeaks.
As for his aversion to talking anything Guccifer, it's a far cry from the Breitbart piece he authored on August 5, 2016, flaunting the cyper spy as the real culprit in the DNC hacking (he now says he no longer believes that), not Russia (which is the real culprit in the view of the U.S. intelligence community).
Stone also exchanged direct messages on Twitter with Guccifer 2.0, at least some of which were published by The Smoking Gun. Last September, Business Insider wrote:
Stone messaged Guccifer again on August 16 and asked if the alleged hacker could retweet his column about the 2016 presidential election possibly being "rigged."
"i'm pleased to say that u r great man," Guccifer 2.0 replied on August 17. "please tell me if i can help u anyhow. it would be a great pleasure to me."
But don't worry, Stone's not talking about Guccifer anymore and he wasn't officially working for Trump anyway.
As for WikiLeaks—the topic Stone willingly engaged—Nunberg told MSNBC's Ari Melber Monday that he was worried Mueller was making a case against his mentor, Stone. In fact, that was Nunberg’s main explanation for his initial refusal to cooperate. When Melber asked if the case was related to WikiLeaks, Nunberg responded:
It could relate to WikiLeaks.