Like many Pagans I have certain books which I find helpful and worthy of my attention. They occupy honored places in my heart and mind and on my bookshelf. I can find guidance and inspiration in those pages. I love them all. And not a single one is what I would call "holy writ".
My books, much as I cherish them, have never been and never will be objects of veneration. They will never be considered infallible. Nowhere on this planet is there a place where anyone would risk their lives by speaking "blasphemy" about them, or by committing some act of "desecration" on them. It just isn't possible.
Nobody is going to make any part of any of those writings into the Law of the Land. I'd fight it tooth and nail if anyone ever tried. Those books and the ideas contained in them are for me. My ideals and my standards to take to my heart and try to live up to; or not, as the case may be.
Which is exactly how it should be.
"The Bible says" has no place in our laws.
This also applies to the Quran, the Torah, the Vedas, the Tripitaka, and any other foundational religious texts you care to name. However, in the United States it is the Christian Bible which is increasingly intruding into our politics. It's been quoted and used by conservatives for decades if not centuries to bolster support for their policies. It's being used increasingly by liberals to do the same.
Liberal: "God is love!"
Conservative: "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword!"
Liberal: "I was a stranger, and you welcomed me"
Conservative: "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution"
Who's right? Both? Neither? It depends...?
Both are quoting actual verses from the Christian Bible. So whose chosen quote wins? Whose particular focus and preference gets to influence or even become our law?
The only viable option is, neither of them.
We are not a theocracy.
There are more variations of the Christian Bible available today for ordinary people to choose from and read than at any other time in history. Whatever your language preference or aesthetic, your political or philosophical persuasion, your particular denomination, church, or organization, chances are there's a Bible that's tailored to your needs. Which is fine. However, none of them have any place in our laws.
Ever since I was a kid I've heard Christians who claim to want the Bible to be the Law of the Land. Sometimes I'm tempted to ask them, which one?
I don't ask because it's actually irrelevant. None of them belong in our laws. We're not a theocracy.
Christianity is on the decline in the US. Christian nationalists see that as a call to further politicization.
While Christianity is still the predominant religion in the US, that margin has been shrinking for years now. According to a 2023 Gallup poll, 68% of Americans identify as Christian. Fifty years earlier it was 87%. Conservatives are aware of this and are very concerned about it. The loudest conservative voices these days are the ones politicizing their faith. That politicization- known as Christian nationalism- is directly contributing to the decline of Christianity in the US. They keep doing it anyway. And they won't stop.
Other Christians will probably not escape persecution.
Christianist trolls seem to be ramping up the antagonism towards liberal Christians. The online trolling I've seen recently that's directed at left-leaning Christians has been appalling. Those trolls are getting an early start on what all theocratic societies eventually do- targeting members of their own religion whose views don't align with those of the ruling faction. If Christian nationalists actually take power it will get very, very ugly. Remember how emboldened the racists and Islamophobes were in 2016? And how much worse they got following the election? I sure as hell do.
We still are not a theocracy. Let's keep it that way.
Banning porn is on their wish list. So is greatly expanding the definition of what is considered pornography.
And guess who gets to decide what is and isn't porn?
If the Christianists get to have their own way they'll ban whatever the hell they please. They've made it clear that any discussions or printed materials about gay and transgender people would be considered pornographic, and therefore criminal offenses. A children's storybook like "And Tango Makes Three" could be categorized on the same level as a magazine like Hustler. A discussion of how to support gay and transgender youth would get lumped together with child porn. Simply acknowledging the existence of gay and transgender people could be considered promoting pornography. They can fall back on the old "I know it when I see it" argument, and they'll see it everywhere.
My daughter works at a public library, in Youth Services. A few of the books available there discuss LGBTQ+ people in age-appropriate ways. I've seen them; none of them are pornography. Under this proposal my daughter and her co-workers would be considered criminals, and forced to register as sex offenders. She's been working at the library longer than any other employee. She likes her work and is very good at it. The Christianists would imprison her. As for LGBTQ+ folk, Christianists would prefer to simply erase them.
They are deeply committed to forcing pregnant people to carry their pregnancies to term.
Along with abortion, severely restricting "no-fault" divorce is also on their wish list.
This is what they're talking about when they mention making "the family" the centerpiece of American society. Making divorce much more difficult, along with the proposed elimination of safety net programs that benefit parents- especially single mothers- will mean more couples staying in miserable, even abusive marriages. Having to prove to a judge that domestic violence is happening will be something abused spouses will think twice about; if the judge rules against you, a resentful already abusive partner is likely to escalate the violence. And if proving physical abuse would be tricky to say the least, proving mental and emotional abuse would be next to impossible.
Just because something isn't mentioned in the Project 2025 document doesn't mean it's not one of their goals.
After imposing what amounts to a near-total ban on abortion I expect they'll target contraception. At best it might still be available for married couples. (As long as the husband agrees to it, no doubt.) Endless childbearing plus inability to divorce will mean countless women leaving the workforce. Eventually we could see only single women and older women past the age of bearing and raising kids being employed. Female empowerment and independence are not valued in Christian nationalism. An increased birthdate is, for both religious and economic reasons. Controlling women is a big deal for these people. As far as I know, repealing the Nineteenth Amendment isn't an official part of their plan. Yet.
These are people who, if they read anything at all other than the Bible, have read "The Handmaid's Tale" not as dystopian fiction and a cautionary tale, but as a how-to manual and inspiration.
Patriarchy, piety, and gaslighting.
According to them we're wrong about patriarchy. It's not scary at all! In fact it looks like "Little House on the Prairie". And who doesn't like pigtails, ruffles, cross stitch samplers and home-baked bread?
Where I live you can actually see groups of women who look like they just stepped off the set of "Little House". They show up at Wal-Mart and the local quilters shop. They stay close together, speak seldom, and never smile. They're members of a fundamentalist Mormon polygamy cult.
Short of threats or actual violence, religious disagreements are unwinnable.
Throughout history and no matter what the religion, fanatics have always had one thing in common- the absolute conviction that theirs is the only right and true way to do the only right and true religion. Theirs. Everyone else is sadly mistaken at best. The mistaken and mislead (in this case, Christians who aren't Christianists) are sometimes targeted for conversion. Other times they're simply oppressed.
The Project 2025 document mentions support for Israel. I saw one mention of synagogues in the same sentence as churches. There are frequent disparaging mentions of "globalists" and "global elites", dog whistle terms often used in antisemitic screeds.
The Heritage Foundation website mentions "peaceful Muslims" and says that the US is a "great defender" of them.
I found no explicit mention anywhere of Pagans or Paganism, but I am already familiar with the Christianist opinion of people like me. They have similar views regarding Atheists.
We should expect them to use violence if necessary to achieve their aims.
If Christian nationalists actually manage to seize power here we should probably expect the eventual use of violent force to "encourage" compliance. There's plenty of historical precedent. They've already given us a heads-up regarding their willingness to use violence if we don't cooperate with them-
"We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
-Heritage Foundation president Kevin Roberts.
If we allow it.
If we just lie down tamely and allow it to happen.
It's almost like being told to just relax and try to enjoy it.
I don't even have words to describe how angry that makes me.
While repeatedly claiming to be all about self-governance for Americans they are explicit about just how they believe we should "self-govern". There's also a lot of hero-worship of Ronald Reagan, the first American president to take the Heritage Foundation and it's suggestions seriously.
Donald Trump is trying to distance himself from this. We already know how honest and forthright he is.
There's very much more to be said about the plans that Christian nationalism has for all of us. I urge everyone to read the Project 2025 document. If you don't want to wade through all 888 pages, just read the foreword. It's what's in store for us if Trump2.0 happens. If even a fraction of it gets implemented the effects will be devastating. Donald can deny it all he wants. He was happy enough to implement their suggestions last time. We already know how honest and forthright he is.
The entire document is available as a free download here. (Click on "Mandate for Leadership") You can read their own explanation of it here. There's also an article about it on Wikipedia.
I really, really don't want to live in a Christianist sh*thole.
Bet you don't, either.
It'd be like living in a meat packing plant. And guess who's the livestock?
The Christianists are more than ready. Are we?
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Thank you for reading. This is an open thread, all topics are welcome.