It's yet another Zombie Lie we've heard over and over again as a justification for the Reverse Robin Hood policies of the Right Wing. Rarely have they seem to find a poor, sick, child or elderly person they won't gouge in order to shovel bigger and bigger train loads of cash to those who already have mountains of it.
And at it's core this is the reason most often given.
@gbigsangle @Vyan1 Given you must be a poor guy, of course you dont understand that the wealthy MAKE THE JOBS. do you need one? #TeaParty #p2
Seeing as I've been an independent contractor and entrepreneur for well over a decade - and i admit there can be lean times, just as there have been times where I've been swimming in cheddar - but this guy is seriously barking up the wrong tree.
My Exhibit A) in debunking his view is the fact that Business Owners Themselves have come out to refute it.
Business Owners speak: Tax Cuts don't Create Jobs -- they Create Deficits http://t.co/... #TeaParty #p2 #tcot #dkos #fb #TheTruthHurts
I'm a small business owner here in Atlanta Ga. We have a clothing store, and have an online clothing website. Both do very well, I can tell you right now, as a business owner, as a person who comes from a family of small business owners. Tax Cuts do not create jobs. Tax cuts adds profits into business owners pockets. If I get another 10% Tax cut, as the republicans are planning to push, lets say it moves and wins. If my current staff is can handle the volume, there is no incentive for me to hire new employees. That is the way it works. [...]
Here's a business owner telling the truth, you give them move tax cuts and they'll take that money and put it in their pocket - not put it into their business and hire more employees. So why are we cutting these people's taxes when it's costing us $690 Billion over the next ten years, and we have to cut food, health, heating and education support for people who need it most desperately?
Well, if you ask the Tea Party they seem to have an answer for everything - but that's doesn't mean their answer is correct.
It can be very interesting once you confront a Tea supply-sider with facts and history - watching them twist and squirm is a hoot. Here was my first salvo.
Vyan1 The Wealthy Don't Make Jobs, Consumers (who are 80% of Economy) Make them Wealthy @gbigsangle he Wealthy MAKE THE JOBS. do you need one
Vyan1 If people don't want or can't afford what they offer, they make Nothing! @gbigsangle wealthy MAKE THE JOBS. do you need one? #TeaParty #p2
Vyan1 Only thing Wealthy (might) do is Loan Money to start a biz @gbigsangle you do realize that most products are invented first by entrepeneurs
Vyan1 Last 2 Qtrs in a row U.S. Corps made RECORD BREAKING PROFITS - Never Been Richer. Where are the Jobs man? @gbigsangle Wealthy Make Jobs
Vyan1 A Bag of Money (like $1.4 Trill Wall Street Just Made) with No Entrepreneurs or Consumers to Buy Products = Nothing Happens @gbigsangle
The Real Problem is that Wage Deflation has shutdown the Economy, people can't afford to BUY SHIT!! No Consumers, No Jobs @gbigsangle
This makes sense right? That it's just as much consumers as it's is investors (banks,
wall street) that make decisions as to which companies will prosper and which will not.
But this simple understanding is beyond the Tea-Impaired as he argued.
@gbigsangle you do realize that most products are invented first by entrepeneurs
Yeah, I kinda do.
Vyan1 Most entrepeneurs (of which I am) don't start out Rich, Only thing Wealthy (might) do is Loan Money to start a biz!
Most jobs are produced by small business as they grow and expand and most small business owners Are not Wealthy or else they wouldn't be starting as small business, they'd be the Koch Brothers..
If workers wages are repeatedly undercut, as they have been over the last 30 years, they can't afford to purchase what those business have to offer. They might turn to pay there bills with their credit cards, or the equity in their homes to bridge the gap as the buying power continues to shrink but eventually all of that Dried Up and the House of Credit Cards and inflated Mortgages all came Crashing Down in 2008.
If we let the TeaPublicans have their way, it'll happen again far sooner than it has the last two times.
The only involvement in this process for the Wealthy is to provide Cash. Not Ideas. Not Production. Not Marketing. Just funding, and not all businesses need tons of outside cash injected unless they're going through difficult times or are trying to rapidly expand beyond what is justified by their current revenues.
Now this varies from industry to industry and market to market - but the only involvement someone wealthy might have is to simply offer a Loan to the business with the expectation of seeing a significant Return on that Investment.
But rather than investing and growing their employee base in America, most large Businesses have been rapidly shifting their worker base overseas. We all know this, we've all seen this. You can't walk into a retail outlet without seeing products made in China, Haiti or Korea. You can't talk to the Customer Service Reps at most U.S. Companies without being routed to India.
Even the Tea Party knows this - sorta.
@gbigsangle Corp America is rolling in cash due to OFFSHORE markets,not the US markets
To which I asked.
@Vyan1 And we should give (Wealthy) even more tax kick backs for what exactly?
If they're escaping our tax system and using those funds to expand overseas markets and NOT markets or employment opportunities here - why on Earth should we continue subsidizing that process?
Except that's not really what's going on. As that small business person said at the start of this piece, U.S. Companies aren't selling more in foreign markets to increase their profits they gutting their U.S. workforce.
Vyan1 Corps Increase Profits by Cutting Us Workers http://tinyurl.com/... @gbigsangle Corp America is rolling in cash due to OFFSHORE markets.
Or so their making all that money offshore are they? Strange that noone says that's true.
@Vyan1 Corp Increase Profits by Cutting Us Workers http://tinyurl.com/... @gbigsangle
The Commerce Department reports that corporate profits have never been higher in American history, so why aren't Republicans -- the party of business -- celebrating the news? After all, those profits are coming not from revenue growth -- which would benefit workers and executives -- but from cost cutting. It's that cost cutting that is keeping the unemployment rate at 9.5%, while allowing more of companies' meager revenue growth to flow to the bottom line.
How historic is this accomplishment? The New York Times calculated that at $1.66 trillion, U.S. corporations are on track for annualized profits that are the highest since such records were first kept back in 1950, and notes that the gains in profits are due mostly to rising productivity.
That productivity boost came as workers spent more hours working, and getting paid less to do it. Specifically, between the third quarter of 2009 and the same period on 2010, productivity was up 2.5% as output rose 4.1%, hours worked increased 1.6%, and unit labor costs fell 1.9%, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
See full article from DailyFinance: http://srph.it/...
And it's not that bringing taxes up for the wealthy a mild 3% will hurt them, it's already been proven that they can indeed tolerate modest increases, when President Bill Clinton partially reverse a small portion of the Reagan Tax Cuts which originally sent us into this Deficit Tailspin. As a result there were new businesses and new entrepreneurs everywhere, ultimately generating 22 Million jobs and Balancing the Budget.
The reason is simple, when you raise taxes on the Rich - they actually still try to avoid paying for them - but when they do, they do it by Investing in their Businesses!
So I ask again, how is giving more Tax Kick-Backs to the Rich going to make us more JOBS when all they do is use that money to line their pockets while reducing jobs?
The fact is, yet again, that the Rich don't make jobs - those people are trying to Get RICH by starting a business and expanding are the ones who create jobs.
But leave it to TeaMan to find someone, anyone else, to blame for what large corporations are doing to the American people.
@gbigsangle corp cost cutting labor, look no further than the unions. corps are PAID to keep costs down, not be a welfare state for labor.
I have to admit I almost did a spit-take on that one. A "Welfare State For Labor"? What the Frak!?
@Vyan1 Getting Paid Fairly for your Work is NOT Welfare! - Unions makes those Jobs worjth having instead of sweatshops @gbigsangle
@Vyan1 If people don't get paid fairly - they can't BUY what Corps make! (Henry Ford) @gbigsangle
@Vyan1 Basically your view is every job should suck, never mind that (workers) can't buy anything and Wealthy get more money to pay less (for labor)? @gbigsangle
We're not talking about people sitting on the street in a puddle of their own pee with their hand out for some nickles and quarters - we're talking about people who WORK for a Living! First he starts out be assuming (and accusing me of being an unemployed freeloader) then he attacks people who DO work as though they're WELFARE RECIPIENTS.
I mean, seriously - wow.
It's all those pesky unions fault we have Weekends, and a 40 Hour Work Week, Vacation Time and Workers Compensation and for that matter Employer provided Health Care. What in heaven we're they thinking when they decided to bring down the American Worker that way?
His next response was almost as big a jaw dropper.
@gbigsangle where is it written your pay is according to 'fairness'? we dont buy a car based on fairness, its on worth.
This is where the Tea Party shows they really don't know what America is really and what it's truly all about. Where is it written? It's right in here....
@Vyan1 In Constitutional Preamble plus National Labor Relations Act of 1953 @gbigsangle
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
@Vyan1 Unfair Labor Practices are Prohibited http://www.law.cornell.edu/... @bigsangle
@Vyan1 This has been law for 50 Years - List of Unfair Practices http://www.law.cornell.edu/... @gbigsangle
@Vyan1 Bottom line:RIght to Pursue LIberty and Prosperty does not just go TO THE RICH, it goes to Entrepreneurs,Workers & Consumers too @gbigsangel
We are Not a Nation of the Rich, for the Wealthy and by the Corporation. We are a Nation - For the People. (Citizen's United not withstanding - Corporations still are NOT people).
The Right to Liberty Is the Right to be Treated Fairly. If you don't have one, you don't have the other. Those Rights do not belong only to the Wealthy, but that seems to be exactly what this person thinks. Workers have No Right to be paid "Fairly" in his view, and simply trying to do so is "Welfare". It's an affront to his Financial Darwinist Beliefs that businesses owners aren't the only ones with rights - and that they have a right to squeeze as much work for as little pay as possible from their employees, and similarly provide their customers with products that are as cheap as possible to produce with the highest profit margin they can GET AWAY WITH.
And getting away with it is the goal. Business shouldn't have any consideration other than fattening their own bottom line, they shouldn't consider the Rights of their Workers not to be placed in unsafe conditions - they shouldn't consider the Rights of their customers not to get shafted with faulty and dangerous products, or to be slowly poisoned with toxins and carcinogens leaking into our oceans, streams and groundwater.
Caveat Sucktor - because giving a Shit about anyone or anything but your own ass is for Suckers.
This view of the Free Market is one where a Pimp, a Drug Pusher, a Contact Killer, a money launderer, shakedown artist, conman, embezzler or a Corporate Raider are just as much "Legitimate Businessmen" as the corner grocer or a doctor- as long as they can get away with it.
Let me say it again, to Tea Boys, they have no responsibility for anything other than Profit, for as long as they can Get Away With It.
I had one more point.
@Vyan1 Also PEOPLE can't be bought and sold like cars - anymore (13th Amendment) @gbigsangel we dont buy a car based on fairness, its on worth.
In case you don't know, the 13th Amendment abolished Slavery - and that's exactly what he's talking about, even if he probably doesn't even consciously know it. He's advocating Wage Slavery as the way for America to start building some nice to Sweatshop jobs again. Workers and Consumers need to sit down, shut up and take what their Employers please. As if what we need is to rebuild the Anti-deluvian age of American Financial Aristocrats in the South who bought and sold people as easily as the did livestock or farming equipment. That's what he thinks of the American Worker. Oh, and let's make sure that these Financial Dynasties are protected from all challenges and competition so they can grow over generations to generation. Who said America doesn't have it's own class of Nobility?
That's the way a lot of them think. They think workers are worth exactly as much as the trade in value for an old car.
Yeah, that's the way to "Take America Back". Back to an age where most of us are either wage slaves or serfs living in permanent perpetual debt to the Company Store, to the local Corporate Overlord who provides and controls every aspect of our lives, like the Middle ages.
Sorry that's not My America, and it never will be.
Vyan