This is the highlights of the Compassion Forum at Messiah College on Sunday, where Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama answered questions of faith and compassion.
This diary is a compilation of the comments denoting Who Said What. They're now gathered into one! conventient! location! They're the facts, ma'am... roughly paraphrased, type as fast as you can recitation of the facts. Commentary? snark? Praise? It's not here (that's what the comment section of this diary is for-- hee!)
These aren't exact quotes. They're the gist.
I attribute the [commenter's name] in brackets. If there are no brackets, I wrote it, or the quote/or gist is so short that I was too lazy to copy & paste person's name. (those are brief phrases)
The Q & A is listed in the order they appeared in the comments. Since different people were seeing the video in different time (online version would go back to beginning of section. weird), or comments posted at whatever time, they don't go in 100% absolute order.
On with the show!!!
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Hillary Clinton liveblog
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Sigh. I think it took a while to get into liveblog flow of this. I had video viewer problems, so I didn't it from the outset, and the crowds in the first two liveblog thread were, well, restless.
So there isn't as much for Hillary as for Barack. Here's what I do have.
The Liveblog thread 1, thread 2
Q: re bitter. A-???
an A: about the Holy Spirit and feeling Him during the walk in the woods.
There's a comment by 3goldens, I've edited out 3golden's editorial slant, since I'm trying to reconstruct what Hillary said.
she has felt "the presence of the Holy Spirit". It's been "incredibly sustaining"---ever since she was a child she has felt the enveloping love and support of God. She is "anchored in God's grace".
I briefly noted that she said she's never dismissive or abrupt with those those who disagree
Q: about when life begins
A: The possibility for life begins at conception. (When it comes to abortion, it's important to make abortion rare)
Q: about end of life
It's a difficult question. (She's talking) about Terry Shaivo.
I don't know that any of us is in a position to make that choice for families or individuals. Don't want us to condone government action that would condone end of life decisions.
There needs to be a framework for people to make decisions on their own. For families to make decisions
Q: Do you have a favorite Bible story? [Fools on the Hill]
Esther the Jew because she takes a chance.
Some Q I didn't quite catch...
A: Appreciate President Bush and the response to the Tsunami
Bush, who got his father and my husband involved. We were seen as caring and compassionate...
Our moral authority in compassion
Q: Do you think God wants you to be President? {laughter} [auntialias]
I could be glib and say 'let's find out.' {laughter}
[I missed the next part, video reloaded, now we're] talking about health, malaria and demonstrate commitment to poor and disenfranchized. before we put our troops anywhere.
I want us to have partnership government-to-government, government with NGOs NGOs
(wait, I blogged this already) oh well. Appreciate Bush/Tsnumai...
[feh. Will post this and move on to next thing.]
and more...
I've tried to take my faith and put it to work my entire life.
Gratifying to do the little I have done
I can't presume to imagine that God will tell me what to do. God has given me enough guidance by how I've been raised the Bible, commentary.
I get up and try to do the best I can. I see through a glass darkly. I believe not any of us know it all. We do our best, try to make a difference in people's life.
I couldn't be [garbled- doing what I'm doing now] if it weren't for the faith that keeps me going and challenges me. And you know, we don't talk about the challenges that faith gives. When people have "all the answers" -- it's not humanly possible to have that. I will do what I can to fulfill what I believe to be God's expectations of us.
and that's a wrap up.
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Barack Obama
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Barack Obama enters (to a Standing O), greets Hillary on stage, and then she leaves and he gets mic-ed up (I think) and at least sits down.
The Obama segment was covered in Liveblog 3 and Liveblog 4
First question to Sen. Obama About the 'bitter comment'. [greenchiledem]
BO: My words may be clumsy. But this something I talk about a lot.
What I said was in no way demeaning faith.
People have only their religion left.
They don't think the govt. is listening to them.
Unfortunate that people misrepresenting my words.
I started my career working with churches.
Example of how political bait distracts us
Rather than speak of the real issue here.
We try to tear each other down instead of lifting each other up.
Q #2: (transcribed by Haruki)
Do you believe God intervenes in real-time?
O's answer:
God intervenes, but I don't grasp how. Best I can do is to act in accordance to the precepts of my faith.
Q re: the term "Clinging" [auntialias]
O: scripture talks about clinging to what's good.
I've talked about it before. Religion is a bulwark, a foundation [he's referencing Martin Luther as in a mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing]
What I was saying is that when economic hardship hits in this community, they've got their family, faith, their traditions. Those are not bad things, but it's what they've got left.
What they become bitter about is that government isn't listening to them. It's unfortunate that in political process of campaing.... miscontrue words.
I am a Christian. I did work w/ churches. No one has done more to reach out to churches to talk about obligations to do good works and inform our politics than I have.
Q3: re: abortion, (transcribed by haruki)
Most Americans believe abortion is between a woman and her doctors. They also believe it's a taking of life. How do the terms pro-life/choice reflect this, and can we find common ground?
Obama:
Yes...
moral dimension to abortion...
mistake to avoid that as pro-choice people...
and same question, as transcribed by Kate McKinnon:
- we must acknowledge that there is a moral dimension to abortion. It is a mistake not to admit this.
- recognize that people of good will can exist on both sides of this issue. No one wants to have an abortion.
- We should be doing everything we can to avoid unwanted pregnancies- this is our obligation. Teach abstinence in concert with teaching sex ed and providing good medical care and contraception.
Same Q on abortion by greenchiledem:
Can we find common ground between majority who feel it's ok and those who don't.
BO: Yes we can find common ground. First we need to accept this is a moral choice. People of good will should be able to understand this.
Comprehensive approach: abstinence, good medical care for women, age appropriate education, contraception education, adoption as an option. If we put all these things in place, then we take some of the edge off the debate.
Woman's responsibility and choice w/ doctor, pastor and family.
Q: Hillary says you're being elitist [auntialias]
O: that's an example of campaign. In a campaign, we're trying to tear each other down rather than lifting the country up.
My trajectory is to tell Dems to get into church, reach out to evangelicals...I've been doing that for the last 20 years.
Q: Do you believe that God intervenes in history in real time?
A: O: God intervenes, but his plans are too mysterious for me to understand. Best for me to be an instrument of his will...in accordance with the precepts of my faith. In acting and applying the core value of Christianity -- and all religions-- which is that I'm my brother's keeper, I'm my sister's keeper.
[by acting in accordance with that] I'm doing my part to move God's agenda forward. I don't know what it is [The God's will/intervention in this moment], I don't presume to know.
Act in ways that are consonant with the values we cherish. Sometimes it's hard to do in politics.
Q: Does life begin at conception? [transcribed by greenchiledem]
BO: I don't presume to know the answer to that question.
(Good answer)
Same Q: [haruki]
Q4: do you believe life begins at conception? if not, where?
O: this isn't something i've come to a firm resolution on. think it's very difficult to know what that means. don't presume to know answer. what i know (as i've said before) is that there is something extraordinarily powerful about potential life, and that that has a moral weight to it that we take into consideration when having these debates.
Q on abortion: [auntialias]
A; We can find common ground. It requires a coupla things. It requires us to acknowledge that there's a moral dimension to abortion, something that those of us who are pro choice have not talked about.
It [the decision to have an abortion] is a wrenching choice for anybody to think about.
The second thing: once we acknowledge that -- people of good will can exist on both sides of this question. How we determine what's right at that moment [of decision].. We should be doing everything possible to avoid unwanted pregancies.
What I've consistently talked about -- abstinence... [feh. sound gone out. over to you, Kossaks]
Q5: on self-termination of life (end of life qs) [haruki]
O: we've got to be careful.
believe in living will...
Q by Baptist minister on abstinence [haruki]
guy: faith has a role in the issue of hiv/aids. do you concur with that, and would you elaborate on that please?
cb: this is an abstinence program, right?
guy: yeah.
obama: first of all, congratulations. second of all, as you know, my father came from here. [and now my damn video restarted...]
Q: True Love Waits (abstinence based program) [auntialias]
A: First, I want to congratulation those of you who've been involved with it. (it's in Kenya, my father came from that part of the world). Michele and I took an AIDS test when we were there.
BTW, this is an area where I compliment George Bush. I actually think that the [name?] program is one of the successes of this administration.
My view is that we use whatever the best approaches, the scientifically sound approaches. That includes the education component (abstinence is good in the education part). Contraception is important, treatment is important. Making available anti-viral drugs. We don't want to focus on just one thing, but have a comprehensive approach.
There is a behavioral element to AIDS that has to be addressed. Promiscuity. Has to be addressed. Women are far more likely to be infected than men. Focusing on status of women, empowering women, making sure that microbicides are available so they can protect themselves. All those things are going to be as important.
Applause.
Q re: Punish with a Baby [auntialias]
A: At the same time, I also said children are miracles. Don't parse that too closely.
My daughters are 9 and 6, and if they made-- at age 12 or 14 --they madea mistake and got pregnant ... statistically we know that 12 or 14 year olds who have children are more likely to be impoverished, more likely to have health problems.
What we don't want to do is to be blind to the possibility that kids'll screw up (just like we as adults screw up). We need to factor in the possiblity that they will make mistakes. (the conversation's context was Sexually transmitted diseases). Make sure that they've got enough of an understanding of contraceptives... in case of dumb mistake.
Same Q, by haruki
you said (bla bla). the phrase was jarring to a # of people. explain please?
obama: keep in mind on that same day i said children are miracles. think it's important not to parse my words too carefully. was saying...daughters are 9 and 6 (laughter from audience). so, if at the age of 12/13, they made what i would consider to be a mistake, in having sex or unprotected sex, and ended up getting pregnant, i think, statistically we know 12/13yolds who are having kids are much more likely to be impoverished, have health problems, have trouble raising that child...so, all i meant is, we want to prevent teen pregnancies, and what we don't want to do is to be blind to the possibility that kids will screw up. just like, surprisingly enough, we as adults screw up sometimes. and we should factor in the possibility that they make mistakes in our approach to dealing with stds, which is what i was being asked at the time. and we want to make sure that even as we are teaching responsible sexuality and we are teaching abstinence to children, that we are also [damn video buffer]
(yes, I know all about that damn video buffer)
Dang. next question was something to the effect of What would you answer if your daughters came to you and asked you if God created the world in 6 days. And I think all us liveblogger/transcribers missed an answer on that one. Let's see if I can recall offhand. He wonders, first off, if they have asked.. um, don't think so. Then talks about not a literal 6 day. The more his understanding of the science of the cosmos, the more he's in awe of God. But as to strict creationist view, no. He believes in evolution. Oh, I think he said that he doesn't see an essential conflict between faith and science when it comes to how the world came to be.
Q. Rock on. A question about Creation Care [auntialias]
how do you relate faith to science. climate change. How you think?
A: One of the things I draw from genesis story is notion of our being good stewards of the land. There've been times where we haven't been good stewards. This is one of those time where we got to take the signs seriously. Part of what my religious faith teaches me is to take an inter-generational view. We are borrowing this planet from our children and our grandchildren.
We gotta make some uncomfortable choices. Faith [is something to call upon] with the science of global warming -- precisely because it's hard to deal with, we have to find the resources w/in ourselves to make some sacrifices... we need to put in place a cap and trade system. It will require us to make adjustments to how WE use energy, as a society and in our individual lives. It [the planet] is not just here for more generations to come [as in something to take for granted]. Religion can bolster our desire to make those sacrifices now.
Somewhere at this point, he mentioned that he thought that Al Gore won the election.
Q: re Rev. Wright [bigforkgirl]
How did he bring you closer to God? He says while working as an organizer. I was bringing churches together to work this issue. I was raised non-religious; mom very spiritual, but mistrustful of organized religion. Pastors suggested I go to church if I was organizing churches. I visited Trinity UCC and found their ministries (HIV aids, prison ministries), social gospel--need to act not just sit in the pews.
He's been my Pastor-the ministries of the church are very important to me. There are areas where we disagree.
other comments said that Obama referred to videos as Rev. Wright's greatest hits
Q: on upbringing: He's got it handled [kate mcKinnon]
points out that he actually went to a Catholic elementary school, just like Bob Casey, and then a public school. Also says that Islam, as practiced in Indonesia at the time of his childhood, was very tolerant.
Says you can't paint Islam with a broad brush, that the overwhelming majority of people of all faiths are simply trying to be good people and raise their children.
Got MORE applause. Lots of applause so far.
Q: you are a Christian. You had exposure to Islam as a child. How did that shape you? [auntialias]
A: I was in Indonesia a child. My first school was catholic. Then I attended public school. The brand of Islam that was practiced at the time was a very tolerant one. Very secular state. No oppressive state trying to impose beliefs. Poople of different faiths coinciding side by side. Women didn't wear traditional coverings.
What it taught me and still teaches me is that Islam can be compatible with the modern world, it can be a partner with Christian, Jewish, Hindu faiths to create a better world. I'm suspicious of attempts to paint Islam w/ broad brush [into a narrow one-dimensional thing]... They're people who are trying to raise their children to their ideals and [oops, I missed the last bit.]
Jim Wallace Q: As you reminded us a week or 2 ago, when Martin Luther King was killed, he wasn't just fighting for civil rights, but economic justice. Yet 4 decades after his death, the poverty rate is unchanged, 1 in 6 children are poor. We want a new commitment/goal. Would you -- in this Compassion Forum -- commit to such a goal (to, say, cutting poverty in half). How would you mobilize us as a nation?
A: Thanks, Jim for your work. I absolutely will make that commitment. I make it with great humility because it's an ambitious goal. Not just to cut poverty, but to keep more people from slipping INTO poverty. [the "elitist" matter came in the context of discussing how people are slipping into poverty). It's true here & there b/c people feel forgot, and that people in Washington aren't listening. So I want to make the caveat, make the commitment with humility. We have a lot to do. It starts with recognizing that wages of working families have gone down. First time gone down since we've been recording these, maybe since after WW2.
We have to shore up the mortgage market. For us to provide tax breaks for wealthiest among us at a time when ordinary ppl are struggling to fill up the gas tank (injects anecdote about someone in PA who's looking for a job and cost of gas to do jobhunting is killing him)... we gotta give them some tax relief. We gotta create infrastructure, we gonna have to invest heavily in clean energy and cap and trade system. We need to have $150 million to invest in solar and wind power and go into alternative fuels. All these things would strengthen the economy generally.
I left out one thing: healthcare. It's imperative that we have plan in place to provide health care, not just for poor but working & middle class, then...[something] that's a special challenge....
Education. Pay our teachers more and demand more of them. After school and summer school programs. Many of these activities can be undertaken as part of a faith community.
I want to keep the office of faith based initiatives, but not just to target certain faiths, but to [fight] poverty and achieve it w/in the constraints of Constitution.
and now an important question, on Shocking the Conscience. I only got the beginning of it, but bigforkgirl got the answer.
Is there justification for policies that permit physical and mental crueltly to those who are in our custody.
A: our position: we do not torture..
Q: On Torture [bigforkgirl]
is there justification? Obama: we have to be clear and unequivocal. We don't torture. Period. That is my position, and that includes renditions-we don't farm out torture. Torture doesn't yield good information. Former generals are going around the country talking about how this degrades the ethos and our discipline of our army. This is not acceptable. We will lead, not just with our military. We will lead with our values. We won't give away our values because we are afraid. Our
Same question [LawStudent]
We don't torture. period.
And btw that includes renditions. Under my admin., we won't outsource/subcontract torture either.
also, "fear is a bad counsel"
Then wrap up, and a standing O and a big, rousing crowd-cheer for Barack Obama.