Round four of the Obama interview on the O'Reilly Factor.
Last Thursday was the first installment of a four-part conversation between Barack Obama and Bill O'Reilly. I can't honestly say I've ever enjoyed O'Reilly (except for that one clip of him blowing his top during his local anchor days...cracks me up!). I am starting to think that Obama made a great decision by appearing on The Factor. O'Reilly is challenging him to stick to his guns and Obama appears to be holding his own.
Two things cannot be said about Obama after this interview is over:
1. he shies away from adversity
2. that BS about him not being able to talk without a teleprompter.
Check clips and analysis from all four segments (Thursday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday) under the fold.
(If the embedded videos do not work, click the links below the videos to go to Youtube to watch.)
9/4/08 - Part I - The War(s) on Terror
Tonight, the conversation covered the war on terror and its various venues. Geographically, it ranged from Iraq to Iran to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Obama immediately and succinctly eliminated the RNC Convention talking point that he refuses to talk about Islamic terrorism. He addressed it directly.
He and Bill spoke of how to deal with Iran. Bill wanted Obama to pledge the use of military force in Iran, but Barack would not. He said it was not off the table, but did not think it was appropriate for either candidate for president to discuss possible military plans. I would agree and Bill seemed satisfied with the response.
O'Reilly pushed Obama to admit he was wrong about the surge. Bill first admitted - admitted - that history would probably look at the Iraq war as a mistake. He said Obama was right on the war, but wanted him to admit he was wrong on the surge. Obama agreed that the surge had been successful at reducing violence in Iraq, but did not admit to being wrong. Instead, he cited mismanagement of the war and alternative factors that contributed to the reduction in violence. He was also concerned that we had not yet turned over control to the Iraqis. To end the Iraq segment, he and Bill agreed to go to Iraq if he became president to collect some of the surplus oil money to help pay for the war.
Link to part I
Transcript from part I here.
After the interview, as mentioned in a few comments, O'Reilly praised Obama. "He's a tough guy, Obama... I looked at him eye to eye — he's not a wimpy guy."
Part II - 9/8/08 - Taxes and the Economy
Tonight's focus was on the economy and taxation. According to BillO, right wingers have complained about the timing of the interview, saying it should not have been played on Thursday night, right before McCain's speech. Left wingers (I assume he's talking about DailyKos, amongst others) generally complained about O'Reilly interrupting Obama, which he did, although, in BillO's defense, he was certainly less rude than usual during the first segment. He replies by saying "ideological zombies are BORING." After a few snide remarks, he credits Obama with being professional and professes to have enjoyed the conversation.
Bill starts off by pulling out some "stats." Bill shockingly admits he's alright paying higher taxes and says he'd be fine living in a hut. Then we get into the data. O'Reilly says the federal government pulled in 20% more revenue under Bush than under Clinton. A quick Google search seems to bear that out. Tax revenue grew by $625 billion between 2003 and 2006 according to the Congressional Budget Office. However, what BillO neglects to mention is that revenues would have been even higher if Bush had not cut taxes. Obama then gets BillO to admit that statistics are bull. Obama responds that despite economic growth in the Bush administration, wages for workers went down. BillO counters: wages are down because there are 10 million new immigrants. Then they get into a typical, O'Reilly talk-over-the-other-guy argument over Obama's tax rates. Bill says 50%, while Obama says no, it'd go back to the marginal rate under Clinton: 39%. Hooray tedium! Then Obama tells BillO he'll be cutting taxes for 95% of Americans. What do you think Bill calls it?
Class warfare! I'll add my humble opinion in here: if 95% of the US population is in the "lower class," as it would be under BillO's argument, then we damn well should be rising up to change things.
Now, we move on to payroll tax. I'm not exactly sure how O'Reilly's math works here, but he accuses Obama of wanting to hike the rate to infinity. Hell, Bill, why not infinity +1? The purpose of the tax hike is to fix Social Security, Obama says. We have some options: raise the retirement age, cut benefits, sit on our hands, raise the payroll tax on everyone ("Don't do that!" O'Reilly replies.) or raise payroll tax on people making over $250k. There's no free lunch, Obama says. But, apparently O'Reilly disagrees. He calls income redistribution a free lunch. Now, bear in mind, Bill has now moved past Social Security and is talking about what he calls "socialist tenets" in general. He calls Barack "Robin Hood Obama."
Next, O'Reilly accuses Obama of wanting to raise corporate taxes. Obama denies, but does not elaborate. He has flirted with the idea of a corporate tax cut in order to simplify the tax system. On his website, Obama says he wants to end tax haven abuse and close corporate loopholes. While this would effectively increase the amount of taxes corporations pay, it would not at all raise rates.
On cap gains taxing, O'Reilly says Obama wants to increase the rate to 30%. Obama has said 20-28%, but caps himself at 25% during the interview.
Link to part II
Transcript from Part II
It seems that O'Reilly is trying to exaggerate stats to see what Obama will let him get away with. He inflated numbers multiple times tonight, including his "infinity" rate on payroll taxes. Obama didn't let him get away with it once. So far, this has seemed less an interview than a conversation between two passionate, intelligent people (yes, I called O'Reilly intelligent) with wildly divergent viewpoints. O'Reilly pushed a bit harder than I think could be considered congenial, but never really steps over the line to utter and boorish rudeness, which he is apt to do at times.
Part III - 9/9/08 - Reverent Wright and other associations
Tonight's topic, Reverend Wright and other associations. If you'd like to skip O'Reilly's commentary, which I summarize below, skip to 3:30 in the clip.
O'Reilly begins by addressing an AP article that portrays his interview as a shouting match and NBC's interview as a softball game during which Obama had trouble keeping a straight face. "Obama was not shouted down; he was challenged." He accuses the AP of leaning left and the author of pandering to his bosses. "Totally mislead his readers," O'Reilly says. "You should think about that." Yes, we should think about spin, shouldn't we, Bill?
Then, he reminds us that Olbermann and Matthews were replaced because of bias. Of course, Bill isn't doing election coverage either. Perhaps, he should be lauded for not putting himself in that situation in the first place. "NBC is run by committed leftists," he says. So, where has Jeff Zucker's money gone? Well, to General Electric's PAC, supporters of such efforts as an ad to boycott Air America. During the 05/06 election cycle, the GE PAC gave $ 1,281,400 to federal candidates, 37% to Democrats and 63% to Republicans. Lynn Calpeter? GE PAC - $250 every month since last July. Steve Capus, NBC News president, has no donations on record. Right in the can, those NBC execs are.
MSNBC, a ratings disaster and a dishonest enterprise. You heard it from Bill O'Reilly first.
Moving ON!
O'Reilly has a new respect for Obama! Bill believes Obama is actually sincere in his beliefs! Bill credits Obama's meteoric rise with the existence of Sarah Palin on the GOP ticket. But, and here comes tonight's topic, Obama's associations continue to trouble some voters. If O'Reilly can say it to his viewers, they must already be thinking it to themselves.
Tonight's segment starts with O'Reilly immediately busting out Wright, Pfleger, and the Weather Underground. What is the guy in Bismarck, ND, supposed to think of all this? Moveon.org. Even DailyKos! Thanks for the shout-out, Bill. So, Bill says, Obama has some pretty bad friends. "Am I wrong?" he asks. "You are wrong," Obama replies. I know thousands of people, he says. Bill replies, "I don't know anyone like that." Well, he doesn't need to, what with his past and all. Obama defends Wright and Pfleger for their work in the poorest communities on the south side. That's where he met them, that's how he knows them.
I've noticed Obama touches O'Reilly's knee often during the interview. It's a very intimate way to touch someone during a conversation. Everything I could find in a Google search related to flirting between a male and female (with the male doing the touching), but it seems to me to be a sign of dominance. I have nothing to back that up. It's just the impression that I get.
On to Ayers! Obama admits that Ayers did something despicable forty years ago. When Obama comes to Chicago, Ayers is working with Mayor Daley. They meet because of work Ayers is doing on education. It's not an endorsement of Ayers or his views, he says. O'Reilly mentions a youth crime bill they worked on together. Sounds like a good bill to me, and Obama says as much. O'Reilly disagrees. Such is politics. Somehow, because Ayers supported a bill the Obama wrote, the two are thick as thieves. I need to go drink my GOP-Koolaid and get back to you on that one. But then, shocker, Bill retracts the question as unfair!
The problem is not Ayers. Obama goes through a list of problems O'Reilly's viewers go through on a daily basis. Bill retorts, "my viewers want a president they can relate to." They can relate. Obama's story is their story.
Here's the killer line: Obama tells Bill that he doesn't mind appearing on The Factor despite some unsavory things other Fox personalities have said. Guilty by association, Bill? Obama says he doesn't assume Bill takes responsibility for everything said on Fox.
What is the difference between a pattern of behavior and guilt by association? Well, Bill accuses Obama of exhibiting a pattern of behavior through his association with Wright, Pfleger, Ayers, etc. Obama calls it guilt by association. I think a pattern of behavior requires active participation, seeking out those people for friendship. Obama has not.
Still, O'Reilly has been more accommodating and congenial with Obama than I've seen him with many, many other less progressive guests. I don't think I've ever see O'Reilly admit that a question was unfair.
Link to Part III
Transcript here
Part IV - 9/10/08 - Oil prices and Alternative Energy
Still looking for a good clip for this one. I'll update as soon as I find it.
Tonight, Obama and O'Reilly finish up the four-part series on the factor with a bit about oil prices and alternative energy.
$150 billion to alternative energy over ten years in an Obama administration. Sounds good, right?
"To what?!" O'Reilly exclaims. I mean, he really exclaims it.
Obama calmly runs down a list: solar tax credits, wind, hydro.
"What if solar, wind, and hydro don't work?" BillO asks. I've paused the video because I don't want to hear BillO's reasoning before I mention HOW RIDICULOUS this question is. Is the sun going to disappear? Will the wind stop blowing? Are the rivers going to run dry? If it does, we won't be needing energy of any sort. If O'Reilly is attempting to address the fleeting nature of such alternative energy sources, ie. the sun stops shining at night and wind doesn't always blow during peak draw, I direct him to fractal's excellent plea to democratize the national energy grid. Now that I've gone overboard, assuming what BillO is thinking, I'll start the video again and see what he's really going to say.
Huh. Obama compares it to the space program and brings up Kennedy. Ah - Obama considers investment in alternative energy to be like venture capital. You put money in and sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Bill says he's "right with [him]." Everyone knows we can't keep importing oil. Obama knows it, BillO knows it, T. Boone Pickens knows it. But BillO knows we need a plan. Why are we not getting nukes involved? Obama says ok! Nuclear energy for some, little American flags for all! (First one to get that reference in the comments gets a cookie!) Now, ANWR is a different story. BillO wants to drill, baby, drill. Is Obama worried that a caribou will be scared? (Bill's words, not mine.) "We are lucky," Obama says, to have some "beautiful real estate." Notice the knee touch. Bill asks for explicit details about how much of the $150 billion is going to go to nuclear, solar, etc.
Now, strangely, we move on to the question of why the Germans won't fight in Afghanistan. Unless opium can go in my gas tank, I'm not sure how this is relevant to tonight's topic. Obama places the blame squarely on the Bush administration's failed foreign relations after Iraq. Obama references his speech in Berlin, the one that, he says, Bill's buddies made fun of. "I have no buddies," Bill replies. Poor fella. I noticed that during this segment, Fox is streaming all sorts of interesting things across the bottom of the screen regarding the "lipstick on a pig" business. Bill asks if Obama will wave his magic wand and make our relations with Europe all better. "I'm not gonna change anything with a magic wand." If only the dittoheads would believe it! Obama is going to engage in deliberate diplomacy and change the plan in Iraq so the world understands that Afghanistan is the front of the war on terror. Bill suggests that we can't change the situation in Iraq if it will benefit Iran and Obama agrees.
Back to Europe for a moment, and the missile shield installation in Poland that seems to have Russia a little sore. Will it stay there? "The Russians are playing a game when they pretend that this missile shield is directed at all their ICBMs," says Obama. Bill agrees, saying it's ridiculous. We have to send a signal that Poland and other countries in the region will not be subject to aggression. Bill pushes a bit harder, wanting a direct statement confirming that the missile shield will stay there, because, frankly, Obama has avoided the question so far. Yes, he says, but he wants to make sure it works first.
"Putin is a nasty little guy," Bill says. "Would you agree with that assessment?" Obama responds, "I'll agree with the assessment that I wouldn't look into his soul and think I know him." BAM, Bush! But honestly, what are Obama's opinions about Russia? That's really been McCain's territory so far. Bill believes Obama will have to confront Russia and that Europe is weak and cowardly. (Who's nasty?) Now, this is precious. Bill knows Obama will rally all of Europe and turn them all into little "terror warriors" as soon as he gets elected. Obama lays down two methods of obtaining leverage over Russia: first, they're commercially tied to Europe and that's a leverage point with which the Europeans can be helpful; second, we have to get our energy policy straight, a "defensive" move.
Final question: "I think I can kick your butt in one-on-one basketball." Not really a question, but, ok. "You've got height," Obama replies, "but I think I've got speed." "You've got youth. I'm an old guy. I'm 73 years old." (Is he really??) "This is Botox," says Bill. The rest is just friendly banter for another few seconds, but Obama does offer to spot Bill ten points in a game to eleven.
Link to video
This segment was definitely the most cordial of all. I think O'Reilly only tried to talk over Obama once and it didn't last long. I'd chalk it up to a growing respect for Obama over the course of the interview, but that might be optimistic.
That concludes our diary. Obama has presented himself to the viewers of Fox News and I think he's done well. I can tell you, however, that there are still viewers who will never be convinced, even if Barack stood for everything they believe in. For example, the blurb attached to the Youtube clip I watched to write this final segment said, "The final segment of Shit for brain on tour. Im (sic) going to have to start supporting abortion for people who are stupid enough to vote for this moron." I would like to know the poster's policy disagreements with Obama, but he neglected to post them.
As an aside, this clip aired right before The Factor, tonight, and gives us O'Reilly's opinion about Obama:
Link to the video
He's not "waffly!" If that ever comes up, if they compare him to Kerry, BillO debunks it. Shephard Smith asks if Bill feels better or worse about Obama as a candidate. O'Reilly says both candidates have agendas and probably aren't specifically going to represent the people, as Bill would like. Then he calls Obama a "big government guy" and says that Obama's form of income redistribution has never been done before in this country. I'd like to remind Bill of the 70+% tax on people making over $1,000,000 during WWI and the 90+% tax on people making over $200,000 during WWII. During wartime, he responds? What is going on now?
Take a look at arodb's take on the whole thing here.
I'm also still looking for a video clip of the post-interview roundtable discussion on The Factor from last Thursday, if anyone has it.