Skip to main content

Here is some original research.

The CAAP or Coalition of African American Pastors, is lambasting Obama for his position on Gay Marriage.  The spokesperson is often on right wing news expressing the Black pastors disenchantment that Obama has come out for gay marriage.  

The leader of that organization is William Owen's Sr.  Here is the published list..

Bishop George D. McKinney, Jurisdictional Prelate of Southern California Second Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction and General Board Member of the Church of God in Christ; senior pastor of St. Stephens Cathedral in San Diego, CA

Bishop Felton Smith, Prelate of the Tennessee Eastern First Jurisdiction and Senior Pastor of New Covenant Fellowship Church of God in Christ in Nashville, TN. He also serves as Episcopal Coordinator on the Board of Bishops for the Church of God in Christ.

Bishop Brandon B Porter, Prelate of the Tennessee Central Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction of the Church of God in Christ and Senior Pastor of Greater Community Temple, Memphis, TN

Bishop Ed Stephens, Jr., Senior Pastor of Golden Gate Cathedral, Memphis TN

Bishop James H. Gaylord, Prelate of the 1st Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction of Eastern New York and Senior Pastor of Kelly Temple Church of God in Christ, Harlem, NY

Dr. Dwight Montgomery, Pastor of Annesdale Cherokee Baptist Church, Memphis, and President of the SCLC (Memphis Chapter)

Dr. Chuck Singleton, Senior Pastor of Loveland Church, Ontario, CA

Bishop Robert Jefferson, Senior Pastor of Cullen Missionary Baptist Church, Houston, TX

Bishop Janice Hollis, Presiding Prelate of the Covenant International Fellowship of Churches, Memphis, TN

Rev. William Owens, Sr., Founder and President, Coalition of African American Pastors, Memphis, TN

Bishop David Allen Hall, D.M., Jurisdictional Prelate of the 1st Ecclesiastical Headquarters Jurisdiction of Tennessee and the Senior Pastor of Temple Church of God in Christ, Memphis, TN

Bishop Charles Rodgers, Senior Pastor, New Dimensions Ministries, Memphis, TN

Superintendent Pastor Jerry Taylor, Senior Pastor, Holy City COGIC, Memphis, TN

Pastor H.O. Kneeland, Pastor Union Valley Baptist Church, Memphis, TN

Pastor Robert Bowers, Pastor True Faith Baptist Church, Memphis, TN

Associate Pastor Ivory Jackson, Faith Temple Church of God in Christ, Memphis, TN

Elder Robert Morris, Acting Minister of New Jerusalem COGIC, Memphis, TN

The coalition statement is a project of Coalition of African American Pastors based in Memphis, Tennessee.

A quick look shows that although some of these are national denominational churches. many of them are independent, stand alones.  Checking the websites for some, one notices that despite supposedly being anti gay, there is considerable use of lavender colors in their web designs. Nice touch. Several churches have the same m/o.  A pastor moves into a poor neighbor, begins a church, ordains his family, and promotes himself to Bishop.

That is fine, they certainly are allowed to do so.

But interestingly enough, one can find no church for the groups founder: William Owens, Sr.  All searches lead to the CAAP and stop. Supposedly Mr. Owens was Nashville's senior civil rights activist, but no internet evidence nor personal remembrances from long term Nashville residents, could find evidence. It may still be out there....

One other piece of evidence came from the AME Church, a legitimate denominational church with congregations scattered over the nation, who disclaimed any knowledge of Rev. William Owens, and alluded he was not a real pastor.  "Contrary to the report, neither the AME Church nor its leadership is involved with or partnering with the Coalition of African-American Pastors." He had no business including them in his press releases and they were disallowing any association what so ever.

Here is a list of some of the prominent press clips William Owens has made. No doubt, you have see some of them..

I was curious how someone could be on television all over the place and yet, have no history, no church, no congregation, no press. up until Obama had come out to say he was for Gay Marriage.

So I Googled William Owens Republican Party ..... and a whole new history opened up...

In 2004 he was alligned to:  
The Arlington Group
801 G Street NW
Washington, DC 20001
Website: www.arlingtongroup.org  
Founded in 2002 in Arlington, Virginia by then Executive Director: Shannon Royce...   Members include the heads of 75   (as of September 2006) Religious Right groups such as Paul Weyrich, Don Wildmon, James Dobson, and Gary Bauer.  The Arlington Group describes itself as a "powerful coalition of leaders from the pro-family community, [that] develops and executes national and grassroots strategies to: protect the traditional institution of marriage, increase respect for every human life, limit judicial activism, and act on other moral issues of concern."  (Oh, and it was nice to see Ken Blackwell's name resurface here; coming again out of the shadows, huh)

Arlington Group members contributed $1,989,545 million in 2004 to pass ballot measures nationwide. In Ohio alone their contributions totaled $1.18 million, 98% of the total expenditure for the Ohio ballot.

In 2004, the Rev. William Owens, head of the Coalition of African-American Pastors in Memphis organized a meeting of his organization with the executive board of the Arlington Group. Owens is now a member of the AG Executive Committee.

The Arlington Group quickly announced plans to run a multimillion-dollar campaign to pressure the Bush administration to select a right-wing successor.

The group planned to target 20,000 pastors and congregations and use Christian talk radio and television, direct mail, and grassroots organizing.
Frank Cannon, head of the American Principles Project, a group opposed to same-sex marriage, confirms his group's political action fund is paying public relations firm  Shirley & Banister to assist CAAP's communications strategy.

Nuff said....

At the National Press Club in July, William Owen's Sr. was accompanied by another pastor, William Owens Jr, his son. His son is head of the "Mandate for Marriage" initiative ...  announced the launching of a nationwide effort against President Barack Obama's support for same-sex marriage .....

So I Googled William Owens, Jr.  

I found out he was a graduate of Oral Roberts University. He is also head of something called Higher Standards Enterprises, which is a shell anomaly listing only himself as a member of "The Leadership Team".....

Oh, and... he is the Publisher at  Tea Party Review Magazine and looking over the electronic version one sees no mention of religous homosexuality, just the normal Tea Party anti-Obama..  

And you might also remember him before Obama's first term, as the author of Obama: Why Black America Should Have Doubts....

Meaning the whole anti Obama message involving Gay Marriage is simply cooked up.... Invented perhaps is the correct term.  
Review: The Arlington Group invents a quasi religious organization to stage press conferences masquerading as black clergy, and incorporating a few gullible real clergy along for the ride.  Main stream news organizations go out of their way and bend over backward to interview this made-up group, and I too swallowed the bait knowledgeable as I was, even though I thought it curious that all the black clergy I knew were rather tolerant of allowing homosexuals into their congregations, knowing full well that within the black community, homosexuality has existed outside the glare of publicity for a long time. Furthermore, I also knew within families, that homosexuality was tolerated at a much higher rate than found among its counterparts in the same economic class in white rural America.... So yes, it seemed odd, but I believed it... after all, who would lie about something like that?

Now we know.  The Tea Party Express and the Arlington Group, as well as the American Principals Project, are what is funding Shirley & Banister Public Relations, who are behind the CAAP or Coalition of African America Pastors... 20 people out of 311 million.  

Why are these guys even on my TV?  (and why did my tv reception just go to black and white....lol.. ref. Obama speech 9/1/12 Urbandale,Iowa)  

Originally posted to kavips on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 02:37 PM PDT.

Also republished by Barriers and Bridges and Street Prophets .

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (201+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    pvasileff, Sylv, glorificus, fou, Barbie02360, Lujane, Arun, k6007, Julia Grey, BachFan, mindara, Murphoney, Gooserock, Catte Nappe, JTinDC, phonegery, CorinaR, MKSinSA, RonV, happymisanthropy, ExStr8, blueoasis, badscience, concernedamerican, qua, SaintC, Another Grizzle, sfbob, CA ridebalanced, GeorgeXVIII, newpioneer, Tam in CA, Philpm, oldliberal, jasan, smiley7, palantir, ballerina X, mollyd, madgranny, ardyess, mapamp, ivorybill, MartyM, hungrycoyote, ctsteve, mamamorgaine, tofumagoo, Caddis Fly, luckylizard, marleycat, Just Bob, spooks51, kerflooey, 88kathy, Leslie in KY, statsone, maggiejean, David54, jgnyc, Akonitum, Johnny Nucleo, laurak, BB10, hubcap, revsue, Jujuree, sodalis, ER Doc, Buckeye54, ScottAC, Bogleg, Susan from 29, whenwego, LuvSet, lmnop, mali muso, lineatus, emsprater, Empower Ink, 4CasandChlo, Sanuk, TracieLynn, terabytes, LeighAnn, real world chick, DJ Rix, cotterperson, HCKAD, missLotus, myeye, Egalitare, deben, anastasia p, NYC Sophia, ogre, Blu Gal in DE, antirove, South Park Democrat, Onomastic, IndyReader, mrsgoo, lapin, RLMiller, asterkitty, jethrock, Lost and Found, dmhlt 66, Getreal1246, BigOkie, ilovecheese, philipmerrill, cuphalffull, Cronesense, psnyder, cany, kathny, gfv6800, Debby, bnasley, ColoTim, Liberal Mole, HoosierDeb, ChemBob, mph2005, millwood, dougymi, createpeace, Gorette, janemas, uciguy30, camlbacker, Sychotic1, illegal smile, Trotskyrepublican, livingthedream, flitedocnm, janatallow, TX Freethinker, maybeeso in michigan, filby, remembrance, houyhnhnm, DRo, akeitz, Yogurt721, Clytemnestra, deep, JoieDe, Nailbanger, myboo, peptabysmal, just another vortex, freeport beach PA, emmasnacker, skrekk, Brian82, rasbobbo, mikeconwell, fhcec, RJDixon74135, enhydra lutris, mirandasright, Son of a Cat, bakeneko, vacantlook, Calamity Jean, sailmaker, PinHole, cosette, outragedinSF, congenitalefty, Ginny in CO, Robynhood too, TenthMuse, devis1, jhb90277, Dreidlgirl, Janeo, hannah, Gator Keyfitz, Emerson, Prospect Park, pioneer111, fishboots, sb, Dood Abides, mmacdDE, Melanie in IA, imokyrok, Mistral Wind, celdd, CPT Doom, Sue B, birdbrain64, Impolitics, Gustogirl, simaramis, rapala, madhaus, EdSF
  •  he lied about being a Christian (36+ / 0-)

    all that we're judged by how we treat the least among us? He doesn't believe that at all, he's every man for himself. I would not like to be on a sinking ship with Paul Ryan, he'd probably eat me.

    reelect the president

    by anna shane on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:03:25 PM PDT

    •  Must...not...make...oral...sex...joke... (0+ / 0-)

      I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves. -John Wayne (-9.00,-8.86)

      by Jonathan Hoag on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 11:40:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  He's a vicarious cannibal. He devours his (0+ / 0-)

        enemies symbolically, depriving them of the sustenance of life and then letting man's natural enemies (viruses, bacteria and cancer cells) do them in.

        Willard is the Vicar of Lucrevill and Paul is his Vice.

        We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

        by hannah on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 03:17:59 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Excellent report. I happened to see the... (30+ / 0-)

    National Press Club segment on C-Span at the time. I just thought they were a bunch of anti-gay black pastors. Thanks for delving into this issue because the press isn't doing it.

    I share a birthday with John Lennon.

    by peacestpete on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:04:42 PM PDT

    •  IF the press ever really studied "C-Street": (14+ / 0-)

      IF IF IF the MSM beyond Dr. Rachel Maddow were to do the yeoman's work of this GREAT DIARY and plenty of other information just a google away it would literally scare itself shitless upon learning the global breadth of hatred - indeed lethal hatred in equatorial Africa - of this incredibly dangerous group.

      This group is the driving "soul" of the Koch/Rove "head" that defines modern conservatism - not your William Bucklely conservatism - which seeks to invalidate modern thought at every turn; Climate Change, Reproductive rights, LGBT rights, scholarship in nearly EVERY aspect, anti-science .  .  .  .

      Fully one half of the country is stuck with its head in the sand while a very very select few embed their sick "vision" upon modernity on all fronts.

      Nice work, great diary.

      Blessed are the peacemakers, the poor, the meek and the sick. Message to Repug Fundies: "DO you really wonder "what would Jesus do?" I didn't think so.

      by 4CasandChlo on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:17:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Seriously, The Family is an organization we (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        celdd, 4CasandChlo

        really need to have a much better picture of what they have done here and elsewhere. What they have decided are their next action plans. Not sure how connected they are to Kochs or Rove, other than all the predators hunt together when it suits them, or coordinate what they can.

        This sick group also needs plenty of daylight and kavips has done a great job. 'Spose Rachel would take a look?  

        It pisses me off that this is so typical of the people who can't be out in the open about their jobs, associations, connections, donations, whatever. The hiding and lying has clearly been going on for years.

        While R & R may not have any direct connection to the group, it is all the same crap, different scales, levels, money. Whatever goals they consider more important than the illegal, immoral, unethical means they justify using to deceive people into supporting them.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 01:46:25 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  One of the things I do know (7+ / 0-)

      is that even though we do have a cadre of anti-gay black pastors here who have showed up to oppose partner benefits, for the most part, the significant black churches do not focus on these social issues, and don't consider issues like abortion and gay marriage to be the key drivers of what they do and how they vote. You will find even the ones that oppose abortion, for instance, at likely it give it the back seat to issues like education, feeding children, expanding health care etc.

      Take the "Can't(or)" out of Congress. Support E. Wayne Powell in Va-07. http://www.ewaynepowell.com/

      by anastasia p on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:27:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'm missing something... (5+ / 0-)

    I understand that the group's make-up and bona fides are less than solid and that you point to some evidence of likely personal misrepresentation if not fraud, so I get the these guys have an agenda and the potential for underhandedness.  Wouldn't be surprised if they were, one and all, conservative GOP supporters.

    However, I don't understand what Romney/Ryan lie they're supposedly perpetuating -- sounds to me like they're just a bunch of whiny, homophobic bigots who are complaining (but accurately) that Obama isn't a whiny, homophobic bigot.

    It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

    by Murphoney on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:14:55 PM PDT

  •  Good work! (18+ / 0-)

    How can we get this history in the hands of any reasonably reputable media source that interviews him?

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:21:25 PM PDT

    •  email to Rev Al? Rachel? (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      madgranny, ardyess, JoieDe, TenthMuse, madhaus

      Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

      by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:52:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I dunno (5+ / 0-)

        Looks like his name and organization are not exactly unknown for their agenda and intentions. Turns out there's a whole page about him at Right Wing Watch. Do the media that invite these spokespersons do no research on their backgrounds at all? Or do they maybe not care about the political agenda if they can just get an AA opposing Obama to leaven the discussion? Those should probably be rhetorical questions.

        from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

        by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:03:42 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It seems the media overall doesn't have much (5+ / 0-)

          of a stomach for stories on religious stuff unless it involves hookers or something exceptionally juicy.

          But this story in particular does sound like something Rev Al specifically would take an interest in. ANd Rachel is also one to go where others won't.

          Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

          by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:17:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, I think Rev. Al would be the perfect guy for (4+ / 0-)

            this story. He's a Reverend for Pete's Sake! ;)

            if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

            by mrsgoo on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:39:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Also hooked in with the pro-life movement (10+ / 0-)

    Both he and his wife (Dr. Deborah DeSousa Owens).  

    He has his very own page on Right Wing Watch
    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

    from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

    by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 03:55:50 PM PDT

  •  This is messed up (13+ / 0-)
    A pastor moves into a poor neighbor, begins a church, ordains his family, and promotes himself to Bishop.
    Promotes himself to Bishop? Safe to assume some/most/all of these guys apponted themselves as "pastors" to begin with? Just becasue they went to church a lot?

    The constitutional right to freedom of religion is one thing, but to be a religious leader is something else. Some kind of minimally rigorous licensing ought to be required, same as for many other trades and pratices.

    I can't tell you precisely what that test might include beyond a thorough mental evaluation, but it's undeniable an unfit religious leader can be as damaging to a community as an unfit teacher, an unfit electrician, or an unfit doctor.

    A side story about untrained pastors-

    I had a 2nd cousin on mom's hillbilly side of the family who was married to a preacher who had his own church. She invited me to come one Sunday.

    Tiny little church, weren't more than a dozen people there, and it turned out it I was related to all of them. It was my second cousin, her husband the preacher, my great aunt, and my second cousin's litter of kids.

    It was weird. Her husband up there ramblin' and yammerin' and literally slobberin' and amen'in' and praise the lordin' in between nearly every other sentence. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:10:46 PM PDT

    •  Phelps clan another example n/t (10+ / 0-)

      from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:21:14 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  just no. (8+ / 0-)
      Some kind of minimally rigorous licensing ought to be required, same as for many other trades and pratices.
      Runs right up against the first amendment - if that wouldn't be an establishment of religion I don't know what would be.

      Try to shout at the right buildings for a few months.

      by nickrud on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:53:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yup... If you license preachers (6+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nickrud, madgranny, mrsgoo, skrekk, mmacdDE, madhaus

        in a way, the government is then taking a position that they are preaching the truth.  And... the government has no business deciding whether there is a god or not, or who speaks for Him/Her.

        “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

        by ivorybill on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:59:12 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's not about approving a theology, it's about (0+ / 0-)

          making sure madmen don't lead people into the jungle to drink from tubs of cyanide laced kool-ade.

          Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

          by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:26:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Let's see here... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            skrekk

            There was a pastor who was named to a major city's Human Rights Commission for his work in bringing whites and blacks together in a city not known for such things.  He gained the support of the governor and lieutenant governor of a different state, the mayor of a different city, some assemblymen and supervisors.  

            His name was Jim Jones.  The Human Rights Commission was in Indianapolis and the rest of the plaudits came from his political and social work based out of San Francisco, California.  

            Peoples Temple wiki

            "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

            by Yamaneko2 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:27:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What's your point? (0+ / 0-)

              These city and govt officials apparantly weren't looking out for right signals of danger, now were they. Shame on Mayor Moscone and shame on Harvy Milk for their blind defense of Jones and their denunciation of investigations that could have saved lives.

              Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

              by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:46:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  My point... (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                skrekk

                Your example of why such licensing might be useful involves a minister who received a string of honors from politicians at the local, county and state level.  It indicates that such a license would not necessarily protect the general public from wolves in shepherd's clothing.

                "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

                by Yamaneko2 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:08:11 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Part of pastoral duties is to provide counseling. (0+ / 0-)

        That ought to required some kind of proficiency. If you can't see that then, yikes.

        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

        by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:23:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  doesn't matter (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Egalitare, mrsgoo, mmacdDE, madhaus

          it's spiritual counseling. Licensing spirituality is expressly forbidden by the first amendment. Do you really want christian boards determining which hindu priest is legitimate? Because believe you me, if spiritual regulation got back into the government's hands that's exactly who'd be dominating those boards. It wouldn't be some dispassionate atheistic psychologists.

          Try to shout at the right buildings for a few months.

          by nickrud on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:30:51 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  We can't do that, for the First Amendment reasons (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          nickrud, mmacdDE

          listed.  It does scare me, though, to think of folks with little to minimal training counseling folks.  I'm reasonably trained, and feel comfortable with the basics, but my church carries professional liability insurance on me, as they should.

          Training, however, is not a guarantee of competence.  See the Roman Catholic priests who molested children.

          Five years after I chose my username, happily living somewhere else.

          by Tenn Wisc Dem on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:14:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  nor, obviously, is the size of the institution (0+ / 0-)

            Many large, well known, in existence for centuries, institutions have abused people.

            There's no guarantees in life. You can invest your money with a respected financial professional, even ran the NYSE, and lose everything because he's a crook running a ponzi scheme. You can send your kids to a well established, respected catholic school and they get abused by the priest. You can send them to a well respected charity a that works with a large, well known and respected university and they get abused.

            Or you can not even bother checking things out, and get the kindest, most awesome teachers, the best financial planner, and help from unexpected sources.

            Luck of the draw, sometimes. Though you SHOULD do some checking, it's no guarantee that everything is right.

    •  No, please no! (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Egalitare, mrsgoo

      Putting states in the position of licensing pastors is a very dangerous game:  place (insert state of your choice) in charge of determining who's fit to be the imam of a mosque and watch the excitement.  

      The effect of this hands-off approach, unfortunately, is that any sociopath or huckster can rent a storefront, put out a shingle and preach to his heart's content.  He can also file for non-profit status and the various benefits:  nontaxable "housing allowance", ability to evade a draft and the respect of politicians too scared, crafty or ignorant to know better.

      "Politics should be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage." -- Lucille Ball

      by Yamaneko2 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:14:32 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I am not in favor of this kind of licensing but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Trotskyrepublican

      I could see that to qualify for tax exempt status one should have to show some things like a minimum number of church members, a place of worship separate from the home (like a home office when working from home) etc.

      I don't care who wants to preach what, but I would like some minimum standards for tax exempt status if they don't already exist.

      "I watch Fox News for my comedy, and Comedy Central for my news." - Facebook Group

      by Sychotic1 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:18:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Oil and water. (0+ / 0-)

      Surely you have noticed by now that religion is the antithesis of accountability, proof, and professional rigor.  

      It routinely attracts the most gullible, uninformed and undereducated people in society -- and that, in turn, attracts those who prey on the poor and the ignorant and the credulous.  

      The government should play no part in this sad saga.  Yes, it is terrible when religious charlatans prey upon their fellow believers, but you can look at is as a sort of tax for embracing superstitition in the first place.  

      •  Quite honestly, if it could be used to bring about (0+ / 0-)

        the demise of religion, I'd be all for it, horrifying as that may sound. My heart aches and breaks at the very thought of the slightest thougt of human suffering, but I have nothing but contempt and hostility for ignorance, superstition, and mythology taken as literal truth. Morality requires no supernatural assistance.

        Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

        by JTinDC on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 06:28:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Paul Weyrich is also the founder of ALEC, (14+ / 0-)

    inventor of the Moral Majority and on the list of founders of the Heritage Foundation. That means there is likely Koch money behind this effort, inspite of what David Koch said regarding gay marriage the other day. This is Paul Weyrich
    http://youtu.be/...

  •  Interesting and needs wider coverage. (6+ / 0-)

    These little family churches remind me of Nigel William's They Came From SW19.

    Super creepy church cult "stars" in the novel.

  •  This is a great diary. Thank you for this work. (6+ / 0-)

    I hope this diary gets front paged.

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:20:55 PM PDT

  •  All but 4 of these guys are in TN? (11+ / 0-)

    My, how geographically diverse.

    Ds see human suffering and wonder what they can do to relieve it. Rs see human suffering and wonder how they can profit from it.

    by JTinDC on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:22:48 PM PDT

  •  Diarist: you should change the title to reflect (8+ / 0-)

    the bombshell content that you have uncovered.  It would have much more impact.  Something like:  "ALEC/Arlington Group fund fake church group to do high-profile anti-gay TV appearances"

    That's one more thing to add to my long list of small problems. --my son, age 10

    by concernedamerican on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 04:24:20 PM PDT

  •  Ironic (5+ / 0-)

    that Romney polls 0 among African Americans, and they have to hire a bunch of opportunistic preachers to try to suppress turnout.  I predict it will fail.  

    “If the misery of the poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin.” Charles Darwin

    by ivorybill on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:00:20 PM PDT

  •  I live in Nashville, and (6+ / 0-)
    Nashville's senior civil rights activist
    was/is Rev. James Lawson.

    So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

    by illinifan17 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:03:32 PM PDT

  •  Oh dear...... (8+ / 0-)

    another rethug schill group that is made to look like many that is really so few?  What is the world coming to, eh?

    Very good work with your research (I haven't fact checked your work, but I'm assuming it's all pretty much true..... we don't have too many schills here, and if they appear here, they somehow get a quick exit) and it is to be commended.  

    Now, the question is how many more of these batshit-brained coalitions are going to be popping up between now and the election?  My guess is one every couple of days from here on in......

    Good work, my friend.....

    •  This dude has been around awhile (6+ / 0-)

      He didn't just pop up for this election cycle.

      July 2008

      It seems like every few years, some right-wing African American activists announce that they are launching an effort to address the needs of the community via a new agenda of pro-life and pro-family values - the latest to do so is something called BARC: "The coalition is called Black Americans for Real Change (BARC) and was co-founded by William Owens, Jr. and Alveda King -- the niece of Dr. Martin Luther King. Owens says BARC is a nucleus of believers who are taking a pro-active step to creating real solutions to problems and not a continuing debate on issues like civil rights and racism."
      In 2004 Owens formed an alliance with the Arlington Group, a coalition of powerful religious-right leaders that was widely credited with being the driving force behind the effort to put anti-gay marriage amendments on the ballot in 11 states in that year’s election. Owens is now on the group’s executive committee, alongside James Dobson, Gary Bauer, Bill Bennett, Tony Perkins, Paul Weyrich, Rod Parsley and others.
      Bill Owens started a group called the Coalition of African American Pastors that emerged to support the nomination of Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. Ken Hutcherson rallied with James Dobson for an anti-gay marriage amendment to the Constitution – just before the 2004 election.
      http://www.rightwingwatch.org/...

      from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

      by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:14:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks for the info (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Catte Nappe, mrsgoo, Sychotic1

        but even without you telling me, if I had to guess, I probably would have said this isn't the first time.......

        I must admit though, it seems that he's learning as he's going along and getting a bit slicker with each election, eh?

        I wonder as well how much $$$$ he's got in his offshore accounts, eh?

        •  Don't look for offshore investments (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ardyess

          These guys tend to be true believers in the cause. But the biggest motivator is respect and visibility, and coming along side Alveda King is a sort of mutual admiration that elevates both of them - each giving the other greater credibility. She increases her followers, he gets to affiliate with the MLK legacy.  Any money coming into the mix - even if substantial - is probably going out as fast on luxe living of the upper middle class style; not getting invested off shore like the really big guys (Mitt, etc.).

          from a bright young conservative: “I’m watching my first GOP debate…and WE SOUND LIKE CRAZY PEOPLE!!!!”

          by Catte Nappe on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 05:35:20 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There is good money to be made in non-profits!!!! (4+ / 0-)

          if a habitat is flooded, the improvement for target fishes increases by an infinite percentage...because a habitat suitability index that is even a tiny fraction of 1 is still infinitely higher than zero, which is the suitability of dry land to fishes.

          by mrsgoo on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:43:35 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  especially these rethug (0+ / 0-)

            non-profits......

            just don't forget to include some form of the words - "family", "marriage", "freedom", "enterprise", "institute", "biblical", opportunity, "defense", "council", "justice", "faith", "research", "celebration", "heritage", "liberty", "policy", "eagle", "patriot", "preservation", "restore", "life", "christian", "foundation", "value" , "conference", or "protect" in the name, and bingo..... $$$$$$ is yours to be had........

  •  Tea Party Express is a Klan rally (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    emsprater, mrsgoo

    They've proven that over and over.

    Human scum.

  •  NOM funded? (7+ / 0-)
    "The strategic goal…is to drive a wedge between gays and blacks—two key Democratic constituencies. Find, equip, energize and connect African American spokespeople for marriage; develop a media campaign around their objections to gay marriage as a civil right; provoke the gay marriage base into responding by denouncing these spokesmen and women as bigots…"
    That's a quote pulled from a National Organization for Marriage (NOM) internal strategy memo (described in a HuffPo article).

    Your diary, kavips, doesn't mention NOM funding, but it seems likely they're involved. Thanks for the diary. Connect the dots ... or, the dolts.

  •  I love this kind of stuff (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    This used to be the kind of stuff TPM was into covering.  It seemed for a while that picking up small puzzle pieces from tips across the country and synthesizing them into a whole would form a new kind of crowd-sourced journalism, like how the US Attorney General firings in 2006 became a story.  But it doesn't seem to have really developed as one might have hoped.

  •  Agreed. (0+ / 0-)
    A pastor moves into a poor neighbor, begins a church, ordains his family, and promotes himself to Bishop.
    ...and promotes himself to Dr. too.

    Most of these so-called preachers were ne'er do wells who have a questionable past and later in life found it easier to make money and gain respectability by "preaching".  Check COGIC's history of sex scandals especially involving children.  Start with Memphis.  There are more than enough stories from this year alone.

  •  I could not get past your opening statement: (4+ / 0-)
    A quick look shows that none of these are national denominational churches.
    ....when EIGHT of the pastors in the list you quote are pastors of COGIC churches.

    If you really don't know, COGIC has five million members, 12,000 congregations, and is the fifth largest Christian denomination in the US.

    After an opening blunder of that magnitude, I really couldn't bother reading the rest of your diary.

    Mark E. Miller // Kalamazoo Township Trustee // MI 6th District Democratic Chair

    by memiller on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:15:21 PM PDT

    •  A little extra research proves you are correct. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      madhaus

      My research was limited to googling up each church and going directly to their websites.  Until you mentioned it I didn't realise I failed to look over the list as a whole. Each church had "their story" which was rather interesting.  I apologize, until you mentioned it I had totally missed the three Baptists and the multiple  CoGoC's.  I don't see how, I did, but ... it is there...

      Again, thanks for catching it...

      I suppose  if I wanted to, I could twist it around and explain that if one used this set of parameters, and that set of definitions, and as long as those were used, then  the spirit of what I said could be construed to be somewhat true.... ... but after Ryan... why  in the hell would I want to?   :)

      I've already moved on to another topic... I'm asking for help ... can anyone offer suggestions on how to sub that with something that A) shows these to be relatively independent religious fiefdoms instead of widespread denominations thinking and walking in lockstep, and.... B) not diminish the COGOC as an inconsequental religion, obviously it is not...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_God_in_Christ
    •  Same for me. I also take issue (0+ / 0-)

      with the underlying claim that a congregation is not "legitimate" unless it is part of a denomination.

      I'm Episcopalian myself. But one of my parish's greatest partners in community service is an independent Baptist  church. They broke off from the largest Southern Baptist  congregation in town over integration. Then they decided that God doesn't think women are inferior. The last straw was their discovery that God loves LGBT people, too. No larger Baptist entity would have anything to do with them after that.

      By my reckoning, they are far more legitimate than a bunch of ignorant bigots.

      Just because you're not a drummer doesn't mean that you don't have to keep time. -- T. Monk

      by susanala on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 09:03:46 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Zilch credibility (0+ / 0-)

    with African-American churches in New Jersey.

    "There ain't no sanity clause." Chico Marx

    by DJ Rix on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:15:36 PM PDT

  •  ??? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    memiller, whatever66
    A quick look shows that none of these are national denominational churches. All are independent, stand alones.
    Of the 16 persons included on your list 6 are affiliated with the Church of God in Christ.  According to Wikipedia COGOC has 5 million members in the US, making it the 5th largest US protestant denomination.  4 of the others named are affiliated with Baptist churches (the largest US protestant denomination.)

    Not sure why you would make a conclusive statement that "none of these are national denominational churches." ???

  •  Saw Bill Moyers today (0+ / 0-)

    and there was a huge discussion on Ralph Reid, and yes there is an agenda.  Think about it this way..if there were not, then why have the C Street as they are lobbyists in some sort of twisted way.. A whitewash of dirty laundry.   People have churches and why should there be a special place in DC for this kind of activity?

    We the People have to make a difference and the Change.....Just do it ! Be part of helping us build a veteran community online. United Veterans of America

    by Vetwife on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:33:26 PM PDT

  •  You REALLY need to fix that... (0+ / 0-)

    As several comments have already pointed out, the Church of God in Christ is most certainly a national denomination.

    Now, it looks like you could say that none of these pastors hold NATIONAL LEADERSHIP POSITIONS in their denominations (as does, say, Richard Land of the Southern Baptists), but there are figures of regional import (e.g. bishops) on the list.

    Your credibility takes a hit if you try to dismiss COGIC on "not a national denomination" grounds...

    •  You are right... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      PinHole

      If you saw the topic addressed further up the thread,  it did slip by me.  If you get a chance, google each church, and go to their websites...   I think you will see why I got that impression, and I'm curious whether many will see it as I did, or if my view turns out to be an anomaly.....

      Prior to these comments I was under the mistaken impression (based on the history at the time of early childhood) that if a church was started, and it wasn't affiliated with any denomination, it could be legally called the Church of God meaning it was independent, and that perhaps there might exist a larger looser liaison between different Church of God congregations, but it would not be as tight as are the the Baptists, (who I also missed), Presbyterians, Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians. and the many, many more I don't have time to mention. That mistake was reinforced because being knowledgeable of the makeup of the Church of Gods scattered up and down Appalachia, I know for sure that they in no way would be affiliated with this group, although they would share the anti-homosexual sentiments these pastors represent.

      Looking over Wikipedia, I discovered I was in error, that over the nineties and 2000's, quite a few changes did occur....

  •  I have found a bunch of cites on the web (0+ / 0-)

    showing William Owens to be a COGIC pastor in Memphis.

    Not particularly difficult.

    I don't agree with him, but he is a real COGIC pastor, COGIC is a large Christian denomination, and the Holiness churches in general are not going to be signing on for marriage equality any time soon.

    Of course, the well-funded Right-wing influence groups are going to embrace people like this with open arms. That does not make him an astro-turfer, as you are implying.

    Mark E. Miller // Kalamazoo Township Trustee // MI 6th District Democratic Chair

    by memiller on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:35:00 PM PDT

  •  Incidentally, COGIC's headquarters? (0+ / 0-)

    It's in Memphis.

  •  No, they were landing on fertile ground (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mrsgoo

    Church groups are I think as a whole resistant to social change, right?  I think so, based upon the people I love who are in them.

    So when the messages came down from the corporate leaders running for power who simply want all the nation's wealth that the Democrats are a sinful people and in favor of homosexuals, etc., that is all it took.  The corporate giants running for power with the billions in their offshore accounts get the nation's wealth, and the religious people get to hammer and deny homosexuals civil rights.  They all feel self-righteous.

    What a perfect marriage of convenience!

  •  Somewhat OT, but I don't think Romney gave 10% (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1, mmacdDE

    of his actual income to his Church.

    Case in point. Much of what was donated to the Church of Latter Day Saints was in the form of stock.

    One such gift was Innophos (IPHS). Romney got the stock through Bain. Bain then took the company public. Romney donated the stock to the LDS at the current market value... and took a tax write off for the donation.

    Obviously, he owned the stock at a much cheaper price if he ever paid a dime for it at all.

    Never sold it... thus never paid capitol gains taxes. And didn't receive actual income for it. But still gifted it to the Church.

    Romney/Rove 2012: If you liked Bush's Brain... you'll love Romney's.

    by jethrock on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 06:54:50 PM PDT

    •  that argument is basically morality as defined by (0+ / 0-)

      line-item finance.  

      Even if you are spot-on, and I bet there are a great many wishy-washy arguments that can absolutely revel in the softer, sloppy regions in-between the religions of god and accounting -- even if you can respond soundly to all of those squishy challenges and win all those numerical debates -- I don't think it will win a lot of friends or influence a great many people.

      It seems curiosity has killed the cat that had my tongue.

      by Murphoney on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:26:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Awesome research! Just another lie debunked. (0+ / 0-)

    Great work. The lights are making the cockroaches flee!

    While not all republicans are bigots, all bigots are republicans.

    by Maximilien Robespierre on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:09:32 PM PDT

  •  I have heard a number of black preachers (0+ / 0-)

    give vehement sermons against homosexuality. (One of the worst was at an ecumenical Martin Luther King Day celebration, where it was not appreciated by many in attendance from more liberal churches.) It may be true that this particular group is largely an empty facade funded by the usual set of right-wing Republican think-tanks. But that doesn't mean that black fundamentalist preachers opposing homosexuality don't exist. Plenty of them do, just like white (and Hispanic) fundamentalist preachers opposing homosexuality exist.

    •  it wasn't Owens, was it? (0+ / 0-)

      The guy you heard?  I came across several reports where at a Martin Luther King Celebration he said that if Martin Luther King was alive today, he would be leading the march against homosexuality....

      There were quite a few comments on search engines about that.

      Pastor Owens, (remember he has no church to keep a toe in reality) commented on a news story about a boy and a dog having sex, that it was caused by allowing homosexuality to flourish.  He seems not to know the difference.

      And at the press conference which I provided a link to, another commentator said they were preaching to an empty room..... It couldn't have been completely empty because someone asks the Reverend William Owens, to explain his previous comment from another day, that Obama supported pedophilia. to which he responded, Obama didn't support pedophilia, but that by supporting same sex marriage, Obama was making pedophilia more socially acceptable.
      Again, he seems not to grasp the difference.

      I wanted to put both of those in, but both messed up the flow....  so I put them here... and the link again.

      http://www.christianpost.com/...
  •  Good sleuthing, but a few nitpicks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1
    A quick look shows that none of these are national denominational churches. All are independent, stand alones.
    Look again. Baptist churches are connectional, not denominational, and so are Churches of God in Christ.  Both have a presence over the US.

    And there are a substantial number of black churches that still have not been convinced that  marriage is a civil right.  And more still are not yet accepting of gays in society, much less their congregations.  But for the majority of them, that is not a showstopper that will keep them from supporting President Obama.

    The most egregious example of the use of black churches to attack President Obama is Pastor Manning of Atlanta, who described the President as "a long-legged mack daddy, pimping hope and change..".  Manning's video has be picked up by a bunch of white conservatives who use it as permission to go around calling the President a "long-legged mack daddy".

    Pastor Manning deserves a churching.

    50 states, 210 media market, 435 Congressional Districts, 3080 counties, 192,480 precincts

    by TarheelDem on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 07:33:48 PM PDT

  •  wow. i can't find my car keys when they're in the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sychotic1

    ignition and i'm on the freeway let alone what you dug up here.

    hey, maybe you can help me find the dignity i left on the dance floor when i was drinking last night.

    seriously, though, good stuff and thank you.

  •  Many religious people I know are voting for (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ranton, Sychotic1, peptabysmal

    Romney even though he's a mormon or against their best interest because their church leaders are telling them anti-abortion is the main reason to vote for the gop.  

    All churches should pay taxes!  I can't see how they have gotten away with this for so long.

  •  I, too, didn't get past your intro (0+ / 0-)

    COGIC is a large, century-old Protestant evangelical denomination.  Yes, the headquarters is in Memphis, but it is national.  They are known for the depth of commitment of their members, their curiously ambiguous position on women clergy (They can't be called clergy, but can do almost anything, including preach, although they don't call it that), and the amazing hats the women wear.  I don't know any of the pastors listed, but the COGICs I know are quite wonderful, tolerant people.

    Five years after I chose my username, happily living somewhere else.

    by Tenn Wisc Dem on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:06:41 PM PDT

  •  Just yesterday... (0+ / 0-)

    I attended a 50th anniversary party for a couple in a Pentecostal church.  We got the "marriage is one man and one woman" sermon as part of one of the tributes to the couple.  Said minister stated that the president was wrong, but I cannot see said minister controlling a congregation to turn it's back on the president.

    My parents pastor, an actual bishop in the COGIC organization, has said openly that it is not his job to tell people who to vote for.  

    I'm just a girl, with a gun...

    by whatever66 on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 08:49:48 PM PDT

  •  The only people who should ever... (0+ / 0-)

    ...hear what some pastor/preacher/priest says about anything are his own congregation. I find it very bothersome that these frauds have access to the public airwaves. If dopes want to pay for their special jesusy bullshit, fine. The rest of us don't need or want to hear about their opinions, pronouncements, proclamations or receive any of their "divinely-inspired" insights. Ugh. No wonder this country is circling the toilet.

    •  not only do they have access.... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      hannah

      they get carted around by  the public relations firm....

      It is not that they have a press release and a event.  it is that they have a firm that calls all networks and local affiliates saying, "can you fit my guy in for 3 minutes, he gives Obama a hard time on gay marriange, your viewers will be hooked... and it could help us get that do-nothing guy outta' there.... "

      We don't realize we are simply being played....  I think I said it was 20 people out of our population of 311 million who are doing this....

      Back during the Trayvon Martin controversy, then when the media deliberated tried to stoke and fuel race decisiveness and it fell on deaf ears, many people on the street credited facebook...  Here is the exact quote " It use to be that blacks talked their language to blacks and whites did their thing with whites.  But with social media, you talk to everybody... when someone tells you whites are racist, you know that's not true.  You have whites telling you how horrible the tragedy was and how Zimmerman needed to be locked up... And whites, knew that blacks weren't coming for them, they just wanted the right thing done, just as whites did...

      When NBC tried to fan the flames it went over like a fire on wet wood...

      So I think the proper method to put Romney/Ryan lies in perspective, is to carry the fight on our social media pages... When someone says "I hate Obama because of....."  whatever, simply respond,  "I like him, because I've benefited from everything he has tried to do", and that is all.... They can't argue back about your own life.  

      Don't feel bad you can't change their minds.  They aren't worth the effort.  You are using them to try to change the minds of those independents who have no clue on how they want to vote....  Often when people are confused,  the person who is the least asshole about it, and provides the winning testimony, is the side that is the more convincing.

  •  Um... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    susanala

    Church of God in Christ is a National Denomination (I know because some of our partner churches are COGIC churches, and I've been in and around them all my life) It's a Penecostal denomination, and I would estimate that there are hundreds of thousands of AA COGIC Members nationally and even internationally. They are  deeply rooted in the AA community - very well respected. It'd be a mistake, and an offense, to dismiss them.

    "I do not believe it to be a matter of hope..it is simply a matter of time" ~ Morpheus, Matrix Revolutions

    by angeleyes on Sun Sep 02, 2012 at 09:37:56 PM PDT

  •  I suspect that the establishments of (0+ / 0-)

    religion which are popping up like mushrooms after a rainstorm and occupying just about every vacant building they can find have reason to be leery of this President.
    It's easy to declare oneself a religious sect and apply for not-for-profit status with the IRS.  If the paperwork is complete and the group has registered as state laws require, their activities can be exempted from the income tax.  Also, they can collect donations and the donors get to deduct the amount donated from their income and not pay tax.
    Until Obama came on the scene, organizations that collected no more than $25,000 in a year were exempt from filing any kind of return with the IRS. They were on the honor system.  Which, of course, meant that the IRS had no data to consult or verify -- no way to prove that, in fact, an organization collected and dispensed more or less. There was no way to tell, for example, whether an establishment of religion was laundering drug money by buying the "pastor" a new SUV every year.
    Then the IRS changed the rules.  Now every tax exempt has to file a report, regardless of whether any taxes are due.  And then, of course, random audits can find out whether reported income matches bank accounts.  There's a lot of tax evasion going on in the name of religion. Pastors are not supposed to be classified as eleemosynary institutions.  If they collect a salary, they owe a tax. Of course, if they adhere to the vow of poverty, there's no obligation to the state.

    Btw, these new requirement probably also affect family foundations and other eleemosynary enterprises used to hide income.

    We organize governments to provide benefits and prevent abuse.

    by hannah on Mon Sep 03, 2012 at 03:35:54 AM PDT

  •  One of the major reasons (0+ / 0-)

    these groups thrive is that our tax dollars give them the basic bump to get going.  Until we finally see the corruption in the tax exemptions for religious institutions (which includes every little store front and home basement "church" along with the mega monster churches) and stop giving government welfare to them, we will continue to have to deal with these thugs.

    We should end all property tax exemptions for churches and pastor parish exemptions. It costs us trillions of dollars in lost tax monies that could solve many community problems, AND without the proselytizing strings attached.

    As Ben Franklin said (I'm paraphrasing)... if a church can't support itself without the help of government, and "God" doesn't deem it worthy of divine assistance, then it should fail.

Thumb, Julia Grey, Sylv, hannah, lapin, ogre, deben, Gooserock, BigOkie, bosdcla14, Emerson, simaramis, Sherri in TX, cotterperson, SanJoseLady, LuvSet, celdd, hubcap, madhaus, JLFinch, rasbobbo, tarminian, Gustogirl, concernedamerican, missLotus, TracieLynn, whenwego, biscobosco, jalbert, mollyd, internationaljock, ctsteve, antirove, lmnop, Janeo, revsue, Getreal1246, psnyder, NYC Sophia, cosette, Jujuree, Sychotic1, Catte Nappe, Dood Abides, Brian82, outragedinSF, Sembtex, tomjones, vacantlook, sb, ExStr8, maybeeso in michigan, stlawrence, JohnB47, gshenaut, ChemBob, Kayakbiker, skrekk, PinHole, ScottAC, Blu Gal in DE, Ginny in CO, kathny, fhcec, CJnyc, RJDixon74135, Philpm, Nance, Sanuk, BachFan, irishwitch, LeighAnn, myboo, Clytemnestra, tobendaro, hungrycoyote, Gorette, kestrel9000, dougymi, Son of a Cat, fou, blueoasis, birdbrain64, real world chick, ER Doc, BB10, phonegery, Cronesense, camlbacker, devis1, EdSF, sfbob, newpioneer, bnasley, HCKAD, theChild, pioneer111, uciguy30, madgranny, janatallow, A Person, Empower Ink, TX Freethinker, gfv6800, Johnny Nucleo, Akonitum, mikeconwell, Calamity Jean, Lujane, tofumagoo, luckylizard, palantir, HoosierDeb, statsone, maggiejean, Nailbanger, CamillesDad1, DefendOurConstitution, petral, moonbatlulu, MKSinSA, papahaha, Leslie in KY, TenthMuse, Just Bob, mamamorgaine, Renie57, flitedocnm, Susan Grigsby, jethrock, Lost and Found, freeport beach PA, anonevent, BlueFranco, cany, Maximilien Robespierre, kerflooey, spooks51, jardin32, ardyess, asterkitty, imokyrok, Philip Vincent, mrsgoo, marleycat, Ace Nelson, badscience, thomask, Yogurt721, createpeace, jgnyc, illegal smile, enhydra lutris, Dreidlgirl, ilovecheese, mali muso, Liberal Mole, Caddis Fly, bakeneko, just another vortex, RLMiller, livingthedream, JTinDC, Barbie02360, ahumbleopinion, Trotskyrepublican, JGibson, congenitalefty, CA ridebalanced, This old man, mapamp, the Don, MartyM, Buckeye54, peptabysmal, Robynhood too, CalBearMom, Sue B, remembrance, Icicle68, peterfallow, ET3117, Another Grizzle

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site