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Ezra Klein has big news.

That’s the bottom line of the statement that Anthony Coley, a spokesman for the Treasury Department, gave me today. ”Neither the Treasury Department nor the Federal Reserve believes that the law can or should be used to facilitate the production of platinum coins for the purpose of avoiding an increase in the debt limit,” he said.
Parsing and speculation below Jack Lew's signature.

31 USC 5112(k) grants the Secretary of the Treasury broad authority to mint and issue proof platinum coins with any specifications and in any denomination he chooses in his "discretion".

Laurence Tribe, eminent constitutional scholar and professor at HLS, believes that this provision of the US Code authorizes Treasury to fund the US Government's operations via seigniorage, in an emergency, even if that requires the minting of mega-denomination proof coins like the famous trillion dollar coin. I tend to agree with Professor Tribe.

Note that Treasury Department's spokesman does not say that the law prohibits the minting of large-denomination coins to fund the government, though that's probably what the statement means. Instead, he says Treasury cannot do it "for the purpose of avoiding an increase in the debt limit." Well, that is not the purpose of the trillion dollar coin. Treasury can't increase the debt limit. It would not be minting the coin in order to avoid increasing the debt limit, it would be minting the coin to prevent the government from running out of money and eventually defaulting on T-bills and all that follows from that.

So now what?  I fear that the President will negotiate. Chained-CPI could be back on the table.  I don't know what other path the government has.  The idea of issuing "scrip" like California did seems like a legal loser.  The scrip would be obligations that are subject to the debt limit, wouldn't they? Public finance experts please chime in.

1:09 PM PT: UPDATE:

Joseph Weisenthal, one of the heroes of this episode, writes

"Via Email, coin supporter Paul Krugman says: 'So, are they planning moral obligation coupons / scrip, are they willing to court disaster, or are they just hopeless negotiators? I guess we'll find out.'"

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/...

3:19 PM PT: New White House statement

HuffingtonPost reports:

"There are only two options to deal with the debt limit: Congress can pay its bills or they can fail to act and put the nation into default," said Press Secretary Jay Carney. "When Congressional Republicans played politics with this issue last time putting us at the edge of default, it was a blow to our economic recovery, causing our nation to be downgraded. The President and the American people won't tolerate Congressional Republicans holding the American economy hostage again simply so they can force disastrous cuts to Medicare and other programs the middle class depend on while protecting the wealthy. Congress needs to do its job."


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Comment Preferences

  •  I agree. Obama, (14+ / 0-)

    Through his press secretary has already ruled out the coin and the 14th amdt solution.

    Congress must increase the debt ceiling.

    Concessions here we come.

    I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. -- S.I. Hayakawa

    by tapu dali on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:09:29 PM PST

  •  Has anyone thought, even for half a second, (10+ / 0-)

    the effect that making such a coin could have in the confidence, around the world in the value of American currency?  Has anyone even considered that such stupidity on the part of the administration or congress might destroy the value of our currency, the value of our investments, and the total panic in world markets for everything you can think of.  Commodities like iron ore.  Commodities like wheat or soybeans and hog bellies.

    My opinion is that making the coin is a really, really bad idea.  In fact, I think it is stupid that people are even talking seriously about it.

    We should be talking about making congress do its job.

    Republicans are like alligators. All mouth and no ears.

    by Ohiodem1 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:10:40 PM PST

    •  there's no affect at all (6+ / 0-)

      anyone who would matter (e.g. bond traders) already knows that the Fed creates money. The coin would simple replace some of the Fed's already-created money.

      •  When the Fed "prints" money they buy real (6+ / 0-)

        assets like Treasuries.

        This ridiculous coin is not a real asset.

        "The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Thomas Paine

        by shrike on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:51:30 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Neither are "Treasuries". (9+ / 0-)

          You are in a tautology trap. They are no more "assets" than is a platinum coin.

          cheers,

          Mitch Gore

          Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

          by Lestatdelc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:00:57 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I can argue that Treasuries are indeed an asset (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            shrike

            with value exchangeable for other assets and I can't imagine how to argue the opposite.

            "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

            by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:34:43 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  The argue it (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              MichaelNY

              It is a piece of paper and no more an "asset" than a coin.

              cheers,

              Mitch Gore

              Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

              by Lestatdelc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:38:58 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  TheN argue it... do... damn typos (0+ / 0-)

                cheers,

                Mitch Gore

                Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

                by Lestatdelc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:39:57 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

              •  Liquidity and guarantee against loss (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                MichaelNY

                Holders of US Treasuries can offer them for sale on an active (secondary) market where they trade.  Potential buyers place bids that are matched against the offer price set by potential sellers.  The market works through the participation of bond dealers that hold Treasuries in inventory.  They are willing to buy and sell to accommodate the investing public that enters the market.  The ability to sell for a cash credit that can be used for another purpose affirms their value or worth.

                Treasuries are sold with a guarantee against loss that has never been tested.  Government agency issued securities did face a test of their guarantee and it's assumed that Treasuries would be treated the same, if it ever became necessary.  The guarantee is based on present and future revenue.

                "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

                by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:58:55 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  If the coin actually has platinum in it, (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  eyesoars, MichaelNY

                  it has more intrinsic value than any of the pieces of paper you are talking about.

                  Money in the modern world is very abstract.

                  •  Modern money is abstract is one sense and concrete (0+ / 0-)

                    too.  People lose patience with me on this topic because I avoid jargon and I make jokes that probably aren't very funny.  

                    Anyway, money's value doesn't derive anymore from a tangible commodity like gold or platinum.  The platinum coin could have $3000 worth of metal in melt value, but the US Government as issuer can give it a value of $1 trillion or another amount it chooses just like any other coin.  

                    This is possible because money is just a tool that allows people to interact with each other in mutually beneficial transactions, exchanges, and transferring of goods and services.  There's an agreement about its acceptance value because our society is based on laws.  

                    The entire system rests on a foundation that consists of the value of labor.  Americans have been trained to accept the devaluation of their labor, thus modern money and the construct built on labor also can be devalued.  When people understand the value of their labor, how it creates wealth, the income it generates, the taxation of income, and the circulation of money so it is used  then it starts to become apparent how a dollar gets to be a dollar.  

                    "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

                    by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:45:44 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Actually that is exactly the point (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MichaelNY

                      Treasuries are no more assets than any other currency is, which in the end is no more an asset than a coin, a dollar bill (which is itself just a reserve note).

                      It is all a monetary tautology.

                      cheers,

                      Mitch Gore

                      Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

                      by Lestatdelc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:31:28 PM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Simply saying something is so, doesn't make it so. (0+ / 0-)

                        I have yet to hear the logic and reasoning behind your conclusion.  

                        "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

                        by leftreborn on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 02:39:06 AM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  How is a treasure an asset anymore than (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          MichaelNY

                          any other reserve note since they all have no intrinsic value (they are all simply paper). They all have value because we assign them a value as a currency.

                          Even precious metals, etc. only have "value" because we say they do.

                          cheers,

                          Mitch Gore

                          Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

                          by Lestatdelc on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 02:59:46 PM PST

                          [ Parent ]

                    •  That was basically my point. (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      MichaelNY

                      Money in the modern world is a representation of the value of a commodity, asset or labor as you point out.  It is not itself the asset it represents in the way a gold coin or diamonds or platinum are which have intrinsic value in and of themselves.

                      I have some old Confederate bills.  Pretty much worthless now because the government backing the currency no longer exists.  Gold coins, OTOH, still have value with or without a government backing them.

                      A lot of people don't get that; and they don't understand the advantages to having a more flexible monetary policy than Ron Paul's beloved gold standard.

                •  It is still simply trading in reserve notes (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  MichaelNY

                  Which are only assets in that they are "redeemable" in other forms of reserve notes.

                  It is not an asset anymore than a physical dime or a physical dollar bill are.

                  cheers,

                  Mitch Gore

                  Want to end too big to fail banks? Then move your money and they will no longer be too big.

                  by Lestatdelc on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 10:29:59 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Yes, they are both assets (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            eyesoars

            The coin would be an asset worth its face value as long as the Fed agreed that was its value.

        •  I wrote a diary stating same a week ago but I (0+ / 0-)

          realized I was wrong a few days later.  A couple of days ago I realized that the same effect expected from the coin can be achieved without it.

          "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

          by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:28:17 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, many people, including many of (8+ / 0-)

      us here, have been belittling this crackpot of an idea since its inception. You are not the only one nor the first. In fact, I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of people here aren't appreciative of the inanity of this "solution".

    •  "We should be talking about (4+ / 0-)

      making congress do its job"...

      We have been talking and talking and talking and talking talking and talking and talking and talking talking and talking and talking and talking talking and talking and talking and talking talking and talking and talking and talking...

      Oh, and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving and caving...



      Perpetual crisis means never having to say you're sorry.

      by chuckvw on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:53:29 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  talking about making Congress (0+ / 0-)

        do anything without some leverage to force them to do something is a useless waste of time

        unless you can make them stop being obstructionist directly--or unless you have something to blackmail them with, a hostage of your own to take--you cannot make them do anything.

        Does Obama have a way to directly prevent them from obstructing everything, including the payment of our bills?
        No.
        Does Obama have leverage through other means (doing things the Republicans won't like that either take power out of their hands or hurt programs/other things they like)?
        No, he keeps throwing it away.
        Why does he keep throwing it away?
        He doesn't want it.
        He wants to use them as an excuse for dismantling the New Deal.

        if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

        by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:21:12 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  We did everything but mint the actual (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WheninRome, Sunspots, MichaelNY

      coin when we bailed out the banks, and the financial world thought it was wonderful.

      Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

      by hestal on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:16:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And this coin would have the same value as the (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        MichaelNY

        bad mortgage backed Credit Default Swaps.  Someone should have read the middle word there, Default, and figured something was bogus about these trillions and trillions of dollars of bad, really, really bad securities.

        Republicans are like alligators. All mouth and no ears.

        by Ohiodem1 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:50:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Oh no! a 10% drop in our dollar will DOOM us! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      or wait, it'll actually create 2 million jobs and 1.5% GDP growth.

      It sickens me how many people do not know this basic aspect about international trade and currency valuations, whether they're conservative, in the media or progressive. A drop in our currency helps out exporters and firms who compete with imports by making them more competitive overseas (a 10% drop makes them 10% more competitive / cheaper in comparison to the foreign substitute), adding demand which creates more jobs and faster wage growth. Tighter labor markets and less unemployment also create faster wage growth that creates a virtuous cycle of more demand, more jobs, etc.

      Unless you're sitting in wall street investing overseas, run a business primarily on imports, or you love to take vacations around the world, you should be welcoming an aversion to a global meltdown and a drop in the dollar.

    •  I've thought about the effect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      that defaulting on our debt could have in the confidence, around the world, in the value of American currency. And American bonds. And American just about everything else.

      And I've thought about how the President is going to use this threat as an excuse to give up programs a majority of our people want to keep. as an excuse for evading democracy.

      if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

      by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:16:42 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Well that's silly... (9+ / 0-)

    ...of course the law "can" be used for that. If it's a matter of "should", fine, that's something for nonfeasance lawsuits to decide later if they allow default.

    But the law itself merely allows the production of a platinum coin from time to time.

    The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary’s discretion, may prescribe from time to time.
    There is absolutely NO limitation of intent or purpose in the statute.

    it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

    by Addison on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:11:38 PM PST

    •  Did you bother to read the rest of the statutes (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Sophie Amrain

      that governs the minting of coins, or pore through the existing regulations? I didn't, and I'm betting that Professor Tribe didn't, either.

      However, the lawyers at Treasury know these laws and regulations inside out. If they believe the law does not authorize this magic coin, it doesn't.

    •  What does the word "issue" (0+ / 0-)

      mean to you?

      Does depositing coin with Treasury sound like an "issuance" to you?

      Wouldn't be surprised if that were the lynchpin of any contrary legal interpretation. Issuing coins means putting them into circulation. Isn't that what the word means in this context.

      •  You have some incorrect information here. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nieman, OldSoldier99, eyesoars, MichaelNY
        Does depositing coin with Treasury sound like an "issuance" to you?
        They would deposit the coin with the Fed, not the Treasury. The Treasury is the depositor.
        Issuing coins means putting them into circulation
        Which means, in practice and according to the authority the Treasury has under its statutes (which are separate from the Federal Reserve's), depositing minted coins with the Fed as is being discussed for the $1T coin -- and that's something that happens with coins of various denominations. From the Treasury's standpoint, "issue" means to deposit with the Fed so that they can be distributed or deposited as needed.
        If the Treasury did mint that $1 trillion platinum coin, depositing it at the Federal Reserve would allow it to keep paying the bills, says Donald Marron, director of the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center. The Fed would book $1 trillion, just as it would book 25 cents if the Treasury sent a quarter instead.
        http://www.forbes.com/...
        The Board's role in coin operations is more limited than its role in cash operations, as the United States Mint is the issuing authority for coins. Reserve Banks distribute new and circulated coin [after they are minted and issued by the Treasury] to depository institutions to meet the public's demand, and take as deposits coin that exceeds the public's needs.
        http://www.frbservices.org/...

        it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses

        by Addison on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:26:33 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  I suspect it has more to do with the legal (0+ / 0-)

        definitions of "bullion" and "proof" coinage, and the regulations that already exist for issuing commemorative type coinage.

        For one thing, apparently the coin would not be legal tender equal to its face value until the Mint has received full payment for it. That would mean the Fed could only book the coin at its actual value (the value of its metals).

        http://goldandsilverblog.com/...

      •  There might be a technical issues with one coin (0+ / 0-)

        But smaller coins issued to banks to cover checks are not debatable.

  •  What did you expect? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nieman, tapu dali, justmy2
    •  I expected another workaround that fits neatly (0+ / 0-)

      with the present operations that take place between the Treasury and the Fed with just a minor tweak necessitated by the Republican cap on the debt limit.

      In other words, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

      "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

      by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:42:13 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Don't need to fear (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    flatford39, grrr, annecros, George Hier

    They main reason to rule out the platinum coin option is that it is the silliest and politically dumbest of the options before teh administration.

    Far, far, far better are to either declare the debt limit a violation of the 14th amendment or to reconcile the inherent conflict between the appropriations bills and the debt limit in favor of the appropriations bills and comply with those Congressional mandates at the expense of the debt limit.  

    FOlks who are up in arms will sue, but almost certainly lose.  And if they don't, the GOP will be the party who destroyed the US economy.

    Hay hombres que luchan un dia, y son buenos Hay otros que luchan un año, y son mejores Hay quienes luchan muchos años, y son muy buenos. Pero hay los que luchan toda la vida. Esos son los imprescendibles.

    by Mindful Nature on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:19:28 PM PST

  •  Looks like they read Ezra Klein. (0+ / 0-)

    Preparing for the Mayan doomsday prophecy by hastily trying to get in the good graces of snake-bird god Q’uq’umatz

    by dov12348 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:27:11 PM PST

  •  Never doubt the Obama Admin's ruthlessness (8+ / 0-)

    in finding every reason possible to negotiate with Republicans..

    Never..

    Ever...

    I am not even in favor of the coin...but give me one single solitary reason they would put out this statement now if they actually were looking to convince Republicans that they were not messing around...

    they want a huge deal...even if it is unrelated to ostensibly to the debt ceiling...

    it is really disappointing...to say the least...

    "Small Businesses Don't Build Levees" - Melissa Harris Perry

    by justmy2 on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 01:30:57 PM PST

  •  I'm shocked. (0+ / 0-)

    This actually seems like a sane response. I saw more like this from our government, I might even start to develop some faith in it

  •  Can't say I am surprised. (8+ / 0-)

    Whatever else this statement was intended to be, it is clearly a statement of administration policy on this issue. Bold and imaginative action is not something that one has any reason to expect from this administration.

     

  •  No coin, no 14th Amendment... (0+ / 0-)

    But still, the government must pay the bills that come in.

    What about issuing IOU's in lieu of payment (as CA did).  If defense contractors, oil companies, and large corporations like Haliburton received IOUs instead of payment, how long do you think it would take to raise the debt ceiling?

  •  Sigh. Let's take all the options off the table. (6+ / 0-)

    Again.

    Obama was the worst poker player in the Illinois state legislature, and he never learned from his experience.

  •  Here's a discussion from this morning's (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    nieman, MichaelNY

    Up with Chris Hayes:

    Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

  •  This is a premptive cave. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    George Hier, Sunspots, MichaelNY

    This statement from the administration reveals their kabuki strategy...to allow the Republicans to demand concessions using the debt ceiling as leverage. The administration is foreclosing all means to head this off.

  •  I'm hoping they are just drawing the GOP in by (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    saying they have no options.... but behind the scenes may be a different story.

    The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy;the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness

    by CTMET on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:22:58 PM PST

  •  The coin talk is letting the GOP off the hook, we (5+ / 0-)

    should be focusing on them not raising the debt ceiling rather then all this coin talk.

  •  I don't believe the coin matters because the same (0+ / 0-)

    result can be achieved without it.

    "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

    by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 02:36:20 PM PST

    •  How? Fed cancels USG obligations it holds? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      That would do it. But so far, no sign Fed is considering this.

      •  From reading on the websites where the idea (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        nieman

        originated and was promoted (MonetaryRealism, NewEconomicPerspectives, PragmaticCapital) I expected the coin to finance the continuation of business as usual.  The basic outline would involve Treasury buying back $1 trillion in bonds currently held by the Fed making payment with the coin.  That portion of the debt would be retired, lowering the debt limit to $15.394 trillion so that Treasury could resume issuing debt again until it reached the limit once more.  The process could be repeated.  (I realize this description may not make sense to you.  It will when I explain the same process without the coin.)

        Process Without the Coin
        Currently, Treasury manages the debt with a schedule that lays out which issues are due for maturity.  Each and every week Treasury has obligations to repay 100% of the principal to holders as bonds are redeemed upon maturity. Treasury raises funds to repay principal  by issuing new bonds, usually a day before old bonds reach maturity.  With the debt ceiling capped, all the Treasury has to do is rework the calendar and begin a modified procedure.

        In Week #1 of the modified procedure, maturing bonds would be paid from revenues collected.  There should be enough to accommodate one week.  Once that portion of the debt is retired, the total public debt outstanding is reduced below the statutory limit.

        In Week #2 new bonds can be issued up to the ceiling to raise funds for that week's maturities.  This process would be repeated from week to week with management to keep the total under the ceiling.  

        By following this operation, there will be no default on principal payments.  Interest payments would be paid as they always were from revenue collected.  By avoiding default, and maintaining the schedule of maturing bonds versus new issues, interest rates and markets would remain stable.  

        The part of the problem that is not solved and which the coin couldn't solve either, is the gap between revenue collected and amounts appropriated for spending.  There would have to be spending cuts.  I'm going to guess that Obama's meeting with Karzai is to push forward with a previous Obama proposal to cut Overseas Contingency Operations.  I'd expect some of the other cuts he proposed as well.  One of those was a change in Medicare targeted to providers, not beneficiaries.  

        I'll stop there.

        "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

        by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:31:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is my understanding that will not work (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          LordMike, MichaelNY

          The first problem is that there is so much interest due this quarter, and in a lumpy schedule, that not all of it can be paid in cash from tax revenues.

          Second problem is that spending would need to be cut by 40% if borrowing is limited to what is needed to retire maturing T-bills. The cuts you list don't come close.

          •  Depending on what revenues come in (0+ / 0-)

            I believe principal and interest on the debt can be managed.  Yes it is lumpy and that's the challenge.  You may start to hear about negative interest rate Treasuries or negative interest rate auctions.  

            In recent meetings of Treasury's SIFMA Committee it affirmed that it made changes to be able to accommodate negative interest rates.  Picture a version of QE where the Fed buys Treasuries at auction bidding down below the 0% interest rate.  These securities would create a credit at Treasury.  

            Still the shortfall is a serious problem though I see it closer to 20% than 40%.  Because of it, the Republicans would have to relent at some point later in the year.  

            I think it's very important to focus on the Republicans' unethical abuse of power by misusing their majority in the House to disrupt the economy and create unfavorable conditions for employment.  It's also important to keep messaging on the deficit as a non-issue instead of letting the Republicans maintain the fiction story they tell about it.

            "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

            by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:12:27 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Boehner will cave if Obama lets him (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Only way Boehner doesn't cave is if Obama decides to negotiate. Does the President realize this?

    If the administration starts talking about the consequences of Republican intransigence (shutdown, default, etc.), that would signal to me that they are not convinced that Boehner will cave, and that would be a bad sign.

    So far so good. Let's hope the WH keeps saying the same thing: The debt ceiling must and will be raised by Congress. End of story.

  •  Boehner might cave, but will his Congress follow? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MichaelNY

    Are there 25 'Pubs willing to cross the aisle to join Democrats in raising the debt limit?

    Have you noticed?
    Politicians who promise LESS government
    only deliver BAD government.

    by jjohnjj on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:14:44 PM PST

  •  I saw Weisenthal on Up with Chris (0+ / 0-)

    Hayes this morning. He did not look like a hero to me.

    Might and Right are always fighting, in our youth it seems exciting. Right is always nearly winning, Might can hardly keep from grinning. -- Clarence Day

    by hestal on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:15:03 PM PST

  •  So it's government shutdown time (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Sunspots, SouthernLiberalinMD

    Either that, or we're looking at the end of the Democratic Party's association with keeping the middle class in the middle class in their old age.

    •  One of the cuts previously proposed by Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MichaelNY

      was in Overseas Contingency Operations.  His meeting with Karzai and announcement about changing roles is a clear signal that he's moving forward to make the proposed cuts in that area a reality.  

      "Democracy is a life; and involves continual struggle." ---'Fighting Bob' LaFollette

      by leftreborn on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 03:47:14 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Yes, It's Silly (3+ / 0-)

    But it's not as silly as letting one house of Congress threaten to destroy the world economy every two months if it doesn't get the fiscal policy it wants.

    "I'll believe that corporations are people when I see Rick Perry execute one."

    by bink on Sat Jan 12, 2013 at 04:35:04 PM PST

  •  Congress needs to do its job... (0+ / 0-)

    or we will give them such a pinch!

    if necessary for years; if necessary, alone

    by SouthernLiberalinMD on Sun Jan 13, 2013 at 12:13:41 AM PST

  •  Why can't I tip any comments on this thread ? nt (0+ / 0-)

    I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. -- S.I. Hayakawa

    by tapu dali on Sat Jan 19, 2013 at 05:10:05 PM PST

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