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Two Democrats and two Republicans introduced legislation in the House Tuesday that would punish with 20-year sentences persons convicted of buying or trying to buy a firearm that they intend to pass along to someone who is barred by state or federal law from possessing a gun. The legislation, the Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2013, is similar to legislation introduced last week in the Senate by Illinois Republican Mark Kirk and New York Democrat Kirsten Gillibrand. If passed by both houses and signed by the president, the legislation would be the first federal law prohibiting gun trafficking.

Unlike the assault weapon ban introduced by Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein, a proposal which faces vigorous opposition with perhaps a dozen Senate Democrats against, the bipartisan backing behind the gun-trafficking legislation means it stands a reasonable chance of being passed.

In the House, the anti-trafficking legislation is co-sponsored by Democrats Carolyn Maloney of New York and Elijah Cummings of Maryland, as well as Republicans Scott Rigell of Virginia and Patrick Meehan of Pennsylvania.

The legislation would make it illegal:

• to buy or attempt to buy or transfer a firearm, with the intent of delivering it to someone the transferor knows, "or has reasonable cause to believe, is prohibited by Federal or State law from possessing a firearm";

• to intentionally provide false or misleading information on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms firearms transaction form; and

• to "promote, direct or facilitate" actions that violate the above prohibitions

The Kirk-Gillibrand version in the Senate is similar but would limit violations to the transfer of two or more firearms.  

Both the Senate and House bill make exceptions for gifts and inheritances. Continue reading below about the legislation and advocacy groups' efforts to push a few reluctant Democrats to support more restrictions.

The co-sponsors of the Senate bill said last week that as many as 330,000 firearms have been found over the past three years to show tell-tale traces of black-market trafficking.

Tens of thousands of firearms are purchased each year by "straw" purchasers who sell them or otherwise provide them to buyers who cannot legally own such weapons and to drug cartels in Mexico, where drug-related violence over the past six years has led to the murders of as many as 50,000 people.

Said Cummings Monday:

"Law enforcement is concerned that folks now can go out there and purchase a gun for someone else who is already prohibited from having a gun. Those guns then end up in the wrong hands."
Rigell said:
“This legislation is directed at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. The murders of our first responders in New York on Christmas Eve with a straw-purchased firearm was a tragedy, and we must find common ground to lessen the level of gun violence in the United States. That is what the Gun Trafficking Prevention Act of 2013 does.”
Mike Lillis and Amie Parnes reported Tuesday that gun-control advocates are putting the screws to some Democrats with newspaper and television ads designed to pressure them into supporting new restrictions on firearms:
The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV), for instance, launched a series of newspaper ads last month critical of Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.), who had characterized Obama’s gun proposals as “extreme.”

In response, Heitkamp’s office issued a statement saying Congress has “a responsibility to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill, while protecting the rights of law abiding gun owners.” Her office rejected the notion that she’d changed her position, but the tone of the statement was noticeably softer than her earlier criticism.

The coalition has also targeted Rep. John Barrow (Ga.), another Democrat who’s been critical of Obama’s recent push for gun control.

In addition to gun-trafficking, there appears to be growing support from both conservative Democrats and some Republicans for background checks of all gun-buyers. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor indicated to CNN Tuesday that he might be amenable to bolstering the current system, although he did not specifically endorse background checks for private sales. In several polls since the Newtown, Connecticut, elementary school massacre in December, universal background checks of all buyers have received strong support across the political spectrum, including from gun owners and members of the National Rifle Association, the gun-industry's mouthpiece.

Let's send a message to the extremist gun lobby that their days of electoral supremacy have come to an end. Give $3 to Robin Kelly!

Originally posted to Meteor Blades on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 03:31 PM PST.

Also republished by Shut Down the NRA, Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I am really happy to see this happening. (12+ / 0-)

    Does anyone know who the reluctant Democratic Senators or Representatives who may be standing in the way of this legislation?  Or are they just standing in the way of Feinstein's assault weapon ban?

    He that chooses his own path needs no map. Queen Kristina of Sweden.

    by Boppy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 03:38:09 PM PST

    •  I hope this passes. Among other things (5+ / 0-)

      it will help stop the sort of sales that inspired "Fast and Furious".

      LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

      by BlackSheep1 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:00:19 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Those sales were already illegal. (8+ / 0-)

        When the FFLs reported them, as they are required to do, they were instructed to do, and say, nothing.

        Are you actually suggesting that the law enforces be required to follow the laws they are enforcing?

        Perish the thought!

        Back to your place, peon!

        --Sannon

        "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
        "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

        by Leftie Gunner on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:14:41 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm not sure they were required to report (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Boppy, BvueDem

          they were suspicious, but not clearly illegal from the dealers' perspective.  And no, it doesn't look like the law would change that.

          the purpose of the second amendment is to promote a well-regulated militia, in the same sense that the purpose of the first amendment is to promote a well-informed electorate.

          by happymisanthropy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:24:48 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Last time I looked, (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BvueDem

          entrapment still = dirty practices.

          LBJ, Lady Bird, Anne Richards, Barbara Jordan, Sully Sullenberger, Ike, Drew Brees, Molly Ivins --Texas is no Bush league! -7.50,-5.59

          by BlackSheep1 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:05:46 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I do not thing that word (0+ / 0-)

            means what you think it means.

            Granted, I may be wrong as I'm not entirely clear on the circumstances of F&F. However, no coercion was involved. Opportunity is not coercion. Simply saying to FFL's (let these guns go) does not mean that the con buying them or the guy buying them for the con, is a victim of entrapment. Kinda like a cop posing as a drug dealer isn't entrapping the victim by saying "hey..wanna score some meth?"

            That said, yes, entrapment is a problem we should do what we can to minimize and rectify. It's one of the big problems with relying on "snitches" to convince people to do something. Saying "hey, wanna buy some meth" isn't entrapment saying "hey...buy some meth or I'll go shoot your mom." is.

            Again, as I understand what happened in F&F it wasn't entrapment, as much as opportunity.

            Nicht durch Zorn, sondern durch Lachen tödtet man. ~Nietzsche

            by somewierdguy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:51:28 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

        •  Did I just see a tag team? n/t (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          BvueDem

          There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

          by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:24:30 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  No, you saw a conversation. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            noway2

            It just wasn't the kind of conversion you're used to seeing... The kind where everyone agrees with you.

            --Shannon

            "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
            "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

            by Leftie Gunner on Thu Feb 07, 2013 at 07:38:30 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

  •  Promote actions, would that include posting links? (10+ / 0-)
    •  Here's a start. (11+ / 0-)
      Our organizational structure is unique among national gun violence prevention organizations. CSGV is comprised of 48 national organizations working to reduce gun violence. Our coalition members include religious organizations, child welfare advocates, public health professionals, and social justice organizations. This diversity of member organizations allows us to reach a wide variety of grassroots constituencies who share our vision of non-violence.
      Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
      MoveOn has Community Committees Against Gun Violence that I had an email about a call in 1/31. I can't find a specific place on their site for the group.

      Organizing for Action

      U.S. state and federal elected officials and government agencies.  Call, e-mail, Tweet or mail U.S. state and federal elected officials and government agencies. If yours aren't in your email and cell address books, would today be a good day to get that done? (You can put in fax, USPS address, local offices for national reps, etc.) Then go look up your city and county ones. Bookmark the site so you can access it easily for agencies, reps from other districts, etc. as needed.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:41:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The difference between things like this resolution (0+ / 0-)

        and the ones backed by that coalition lies in the effected targets.  Whether one agrees with it or not, there are legitimate gun owners and measures that seek to restrict and curtail legitimate activities will get met with absolute resistance, from both the right and the left.

  •  Any word on whether Cantor was dragged kicking (12+ / 0-)

    and screaming prior to supporting bi-partisan legislation? You should also check to see if his fingers were crossed behind his back.

    Just doing my part to piss off right wing nuts, one smart ass comment at a time.

    by tekno2600 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 03:43:57 PM PST

  •  This is one of the important pieces of (14+ / 0-)

    decreasing the deaths. The Columbine shooters got their guns from a friend who bought them at a gun show.

    The neighbor's daughter who bought the NY Christmas eve ambusher his guns, was charged. Sentence options were not as strong, IIRC, as these.

    FWIW.  Random comment somewhere. "We have to be licensed to catch a fish, why not all gun ownership?)

    "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

    by Ginny in CO on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 03:51:39 PM PST

    •  Really? (4+ / 0-)
      Random comment somewhere. "We have to be licensed to catch a fish, why not all gun ownership?)
      Why is gun ownership so protected in the first place?

      I see what you did there.

      by GoGoGoEverton on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:07:41 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't think it is that protected. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oldpotsmuggler

        This is pure supposition, haven't read enough of the original arguments, letters, etc. to know if it comes up at all. Hasn't been in what I have read and very minimally  in discussions about that literature. Which is central to my hypothesis.

        What if the founders didn't bother to protect personal ownership for hunting and self defense in the Constitution because in our terms, it was a no brainer for them?

        The 2A is about militias and the people who participated in them. It was a division of rights and responsibilities between the feds and states.

        I don't think they were overly concerned about the citizens being able to control their government from becoming a tyranny through voting and the other rights. At this point, fighting any government tyranny that involves violence or violating other rights (Patriot Act etc.), will only be successful through peaceful, non violent resistance.

        Gandhi, King and Mandela established in the 20th century it was effective at national levels in three different countries. Ongoing development of concepts and implementation, new technology, and events in the 21st century, further establish that violence against tyranny will not achieve what it always had up to and 2 centuries beyond the world as the founders knew it.

        In short, I think a thorough review of this might indicate an amendment that specifically addresses gun ownership for hunting and self defense would be very appropriate. And I would support it.

        "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

        by Ginny in CO on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:04:08 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Oh no, you're not trying to feed into that whole (0+ / 0-)

        RKBA thing are you? Here's a fact. Second Amendment participation is the only thing in The Bill of Rights that gets cut off merely for a criminal conviction (and I'm not necessarily arguing that that's a bad thing). The only one.

        For your information this makes RKBA a privilege, not a "right".

        There can be no protection locally if we're content to ignore the fact that there are no controls globally.

        by oldpotsmuggler on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:31:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Two more incidents- (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, Over the Edge

      Mayan Word For 'Apocalypse' Actually Translates More Accurately As "Time Of Pale Obese Gun Monsters."......the Onion

      by lyvwyr101 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:54:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This will be a major roadblock against those who (14+ / 0-)

    wish to try to skirt the law..  Let's hope enough get on board on this.

    •  I hope so---too. (0+ / 0-)

      I will never understand why those who want more guns want fewer laws?

      Does this actually make sense to people?

      Mayan Word For 'Apocalypse' Actually Translates More Accurately As "Time Of Pale Obese Gun Monsters."......the Onion

      by lyvwyr101 on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:55:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That said, 20 years is far too long (6+ / 0-)

      Sentences are already way too harsh across the country.

      Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

      by Simplify on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:09:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  well then, (0+ / 0-)

        people should not do the crime. why lower sentence terms?

        mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

        by wewantthetruth on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:11:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Lock 'em up and throw away the key, eh? (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          untorqued, andalusi

          So much for justice, punishment fitting the crime, any attempt at rehabilitation... Guess it's better to waste every criminal's life doing gratuitously long time than let some get the chance to go clean.

          Government and laws are the agreement we all make to secure everyone's freedom.

          by Simplify on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:45:34 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Yeah better to go after the law abiding gun owner (0+ / 0-)

            rather than have harsh sentences on those who are the ones who actually abuse the 2A, and actually commit the  crimes with guns, and  basically.... the actual people we are supposed to be targeting with all of these "discussions".

            Yeah that would be mean and cruel and not fair.  

            (snark)

        •  Racism. (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Simplify, andalusi

          At every level our system of justice is racist in its effects, whatever its intentions. White people and people of color commit crimes at the same rates but people of color -- and especially black, Latino/a, and native people -- are more likely to be arrested. Amongst arrestees, these folks are more likely to be charged. Amongst those charged, more likely to be found guilty. Amongst people found guilty, more likely to be sentenced to prison.
          This new 20 year felony isn't going to be applied to tea partners with criminal records stockpiling guns in the basements of their farmhouses. It's going to send more black, Latino/a, and native people to prison for longer, further decimating the families and communities that have already been hit hard by decades of "war on crime."
          We don't need any more harsh sentences. We need to rethink our justice system from its very foundations.
          (Check out criticalresistance.org for some ideas I support.)

      •  A proper answer to this requires addressing (0+ / 0-)

        the whole concept of the prison system, which would require a diary post in and of itself to even begin the discussion.  For what it's worth, I think the current system is a failure that only breeds hardened criminals and I am surprised it hasn't produced loads of domestic terrorists.

    •  I am a little confused as to how it will help. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Simplify

      I thought all along it was illegal to transfer a gun to someone who you suspect as being a prohibited person.  I know that filling out a 4473 improperly is perjury.  Promoting, Directing and facilitating should fall under racketeering.  The best thing that can be done is to start making arrests of people who fail background checks  for gun transfers.  Its an easy prosecution as you have a handwritten form with a wet ink signature.  The FFL holder will doubtless testify in court.  It should be an open and shut case.  Prosecutorial resources are not being applied to it however.  

      Under capitalism man exploits man, under communism the roles are reversed.

      by DavidMS on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:32:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Failing a background check does not necessarilly (0+ / 0-)

        mean someone has committed a crime.  For starters, the NICS system, like any other system, contains errors and mistakes are made. Arrest for failing to pass an NICS background check would be a denial of due process.

  •  Saw Rigel and Cummings on MSNBC yesterday (8+ / 0-)

    ... while sitting home with a cold.  I have to say the proposal sounds eminently reasonable.  My only concern with it is that if it passes the House they could use it as an excuse to say they'd addressed the gun problem, and refuse to do anything else.  This is a good idea, but it is literally less than the least Congress should do.

    I'd only add serious criminal penalties for a straw purchaser or trafficker of a gun used in a violent crime resulting in harm or death to people.  That'd put some real teeth in it.  Of course, that would require the government to hold onto gun sales records for more than fifteen seconds, so Republicans and too many Democrats would probably oppose it.

    Citizens United defeated by citizens, united.

    by Dallasdoc on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:07:06 PM PST

  •  Just report it stolen is all. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rolet, Ginny in CO, LilithGardener, Arlys

    Or file off the markings so it can't be identified.  Because there is no gun registrations - so there is no way of knowing if you have your gun still until it turns up in the street - and if you "cleaned" it properly it's untraceable back to you.  

    This is basically aimed at the neighborhood girl who bought guns for that nut who set his house on fire and then shot and killed the fire fighters around Christmas/New Years.  

    Keystone XL Pipeline - Canada gets the money, Asia gets the oil, America gets the toxic refinery pollution and potential for a pipeline leak ecological disaster.

    by Jacoby Jonze on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:28:10 PM PST

    •  removing the serial numbers from a (11+ / 0-)

      Serialized firearm (many are not, serial numbers weren't required until 1968  and guns last a long time) is already a Federal felony.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 04:54:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure but it also makes the gun untraceable.. (0+ / 0-)

        If I'm selling my gun illegally I'd make sure to clean it before selling it to the streets whereby if it is somehow seized by cops and I didn't report it stolen my ass would be in trouble.  

        Keystone XL Pipeline - Canada gets the money, Asia gets the oil, America gets the toxic refinery pollution and potential for a pipeline leak ecological disaster.

        by Jacoby Jonze on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:07:22 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  the answer is to not sell it illegally (0+ / 0-)

          you can sit and come up with an excuse for everything they come up with but doing nothing is unacceptable.

          if gun was made before 1968 and not required to have a serial number than a gun with filing marks would be then be illegal for whoever had possession of it which should discourage the sale.

          i

          mittens=edsel. no matter how much money is spent to promote it, if the product sucks, no one will buy it.

          by wewantthetruth on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 07:16:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  No law will ever irradicate criminal activity (0+ / 0-)

          If it could, there would be no crime currently.

    •  The neighbor girl was charged. NY had a law for it (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      LilithGardener, Gordon20024, SoCalSal

      New law cannot be applied retroactively. The Columbine shooters also got theirs from a friend. Sometimes they can be traced more easily than strangers.

       Also, if proof of a gun safe or equivalent is required to purchase a gun, proof of the safe being robbed could be required. I think some of the laws include penalties for not reporting a gun theft. Personally I find not knowing the gun was stolen quite a crock. Means the burglar got in the house, found the gun, removed it from any protection it had, and left no evidence too obvious for the owner to miss.

      The manufacturers could be required to engrave the ID in a way that makes it extremely difficult to remove. Possibly a second place that is difficult to access.

      You raise an interesting argument in that for this law to work, the registration and background laws have to cover all gun purchases.

      Legislators that vote for it but not the other are vulnerable to deceitful judgements being raised in campaigns and sticking.

      "People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed and redeemed; never throw out anyone. " Audrey Hepburn "A Beautiful Woman"

      by Ginny in CO on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:30:17 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  does this change the tiahrt amendment (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eric Nelson, jck, lyvwyr101, annieli

    that nixed tracing guns?

    i thought police used gun tracing data to identify potential illegal gun sales or straw dogs? The tracing information showed how many times a gun dealer sold guns that ended up in crimes.

    "It is in the shelter of each other that people live." Irish Proverb

    by Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 05:23:35 PM PST

    •  there seems to be redundancy (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy, Eric Nelson

      IIRC BATF already has a bunch of laws covering these regulations already - they haven't been enforced or interpreted rigorously as a matter of administrative law rather than congressional legislation

      • to buy or attempt to buy or transfer a firearm, with the intent of delivering it to someone the transferor knows, "or has reasonable cause to believe, is prohibited by Federal or State law from possessing a firearm";
      to intentionally provide false or misleading information on a Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms firearms transaction form; and
      • to "promote, direct or facilitate" actions that violate the above prohibitions

      Warning - some snark above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ "We're like a strip club with a million bouncers and no strippers." (HBO's Real Time, January 18, 2013)

      by annieli on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:09:52 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  This is part of why a major part of the pushback (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Robobagpiper

        against new laws is pointing out the need to enforce existing ones.  If the current laws are not being enforced, new ones won't help.

        •  Nonsense (0+ / 0-)

          Stronger laws and stronger enforcement would be effective.

          The push back is clearly motivated to prevent stronger laws and enforcement, mainly by gun advocates, some of whom seem to be obsessed with the topic and comment on little more; if you check the comment history of some of the RRKBAs you will find some of them, particularly some who recently joined Daily Kos, are effectively, spammers of the topic.

          What about my Daughter's future?

          by koNko on Sun Feb 10, 2013 at 02:35:49 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  The answer to your first question is... (2+ / 0-)

      ...no.

      Don't tell me what you believe, show me what you do and I will tell you what you believe.

      by Meteor Blades on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:50:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Kossack Kirsten Gillibrand wrote about this bill.. (1+ / 0-)

      ..last month announcing its arrival.

      Senator Kirsten Gillibrand @ Daily Kos

      In 2009, I authored and first introduced The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act in the U.S. Senate which I will be re-introducing again this month. This important bill would empower local, state, and federal law enforcement to investigate and prosecute gun traffickers and their entire criminal networks, while protecting responsible, law-abiding gun owners.

      By going after corrupt gun dealers, establishing strong penalties and making gun trafficking a federal crime for the very first time -- from the person who buys the gun from the dealer, to the person illegally selling the gun out of the trunk of a car, to the kingpin that organizes the entire network - we can stem the flow of illegal guns that are coming into our city neighborhoods and cities around the country on a daily basis via criminal gun trafficking rings.

      Senator Schumer and I have urged Vice President Biden to include The Gun Trafficking Prevention Act in his task force's final list of recommendations, as well as Senator Schumer's Fix Gun Checks Act to ensure that those with criminal records are denied access to guns. I also support other common sense reforms, such as banning assault weapons and the high-capacity clips used to devastating effect in mass shootings that have become all to common in our country.

      She doesn't specifically mention the Tiahrt amendment but how can one run down straw purchsers/trafficers eg. without access to The National Tracing Center (NTC) of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives with the authority (and the funding)

      Maybe this is a draft with more pieces to follow?

  •  Useless law ... unless (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dogs are fuzzy, BlackSheep1

    The GOPers allow the ATF to enforce it.

    Starting with allowing a director of the ATF, the staffing necessary, and allowing funding.

    The GOPers who agreed to this know that it is easy to say "sure" - when they won't ever agree to the other parts.

    •  Don't get me wrong- (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Gordon20024

      I'm entirely for such a law (and more firearm restrictions), but only if the enforcement of them is allowed and funded. Not obstructed by the effin GOP and NRA.

      Hell- even the NRA could say they support this law, knowing that - under GOP control, the house will never fund the ATF's ability to enforce it.

      •  and not harsh enough sentences. I am all for (0+ / 0-)

        harsh sentences for any gun crimes or any crime that involves a gun....or a felon in possession of one.  Throw the book at them....mandatory sentences.  

        Honestly, since we are supposed to be targeting criminals...and not law abiding gun owners, then should be the number one, top priority.

    •  ATF isn't really the bottleneck there. (0+ / 0-)

      The FBI, and even more so, local law enforcement, are to blame for the vanishingly small chance that someone who fails a NICS check will be investigated at all, let alone prosecuted.

      Changing that dynamic would probably do more to reduce firearms availibility to criminals than anyting being batted around in Congress... but doesn't require legislation, so legislators aren't interested. (Ye Olde hammer / nail problem)

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:24:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Will there be any funding to enforce this? (0+ / 0-)

    I'm happy to see this, but I don't trust Congress.

  •  this org: (0+ / 0-)

    totally new to me: SAAMI
    effective? irrelevant to law proposed?

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    by greenbird on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:08:00 PM PST

    •  SAAMI is basically the IEEE of ammunition. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      greenbird, Eric Nelson

      They set pressure standards for catridges, certify burn rates of powders, set standards for cartridge dimensions... that sort of thing.

      Most of what they do is to ensure that if I buy a box of ammo for one of my guns, it will feed, fit the chamber, fire, and not blow up in my face. Thier published standards do the same for reloaders... always assumng that I do my part and follow the recipes.

      If they do much of anything political, I'm not aware of it.

      --Shannon

      "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
      "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

      by Leftie Gunner on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:20:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  UL-certified central stations for monitored (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Eric Nelson

        alarm systems (commercial and/or residential) indicate a very high quality of several categories, like equipment, training, on-site evaluation etc. so part of SAAMI sounds like that, but there seems to be additional addention paid:

        The Legal and Legislative Affairs Committee also focuses closely on state legislative proposals. For example, the Committee played a leading role recently in defeating several California bills - bullet serialization and firearms micro-stamping -- that, while well-intentioned, were neither realistic nor workable. Had these bills passed, they would have had disastrous consequence for law enforcement, citizens and SAAMI member companies alike.

        The Committee is proactive, too, working to advance legislation consistent with SAAMI's mission. For example, the Committee worked together with a strong coalition of business groups, shooting sports organizations and the conservation community to win passage in Congress of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms, a law that blocks "junk" lawsuits that would blame firearm manufactures for the actions of criminals.

        * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

        by greenbird on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:36:21 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  That probably had more to do with the fact (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          greenbird

          that the microstamping technology was the patented intellectual property of one company (which, IIRC, makes and sells no equipment implementing that patent.)

          When they couldn't get anybody interested in licensing their patent, they went to the CA legislature (which has never seen any gun control law they won't pass) to try to get the licensing of their IP made mandatory in the largest single civilian firearms market in the country... if you leave out the US as a whole, probably the largest in the world.

          And they succeded. The law was passed, but an injunction has held it in abeyance... there's another law in California that prevents the Legislature from mandating anyting that is covered by patent, unless the licenses for the IP are free. Needless to say, the dedicated public safety advocates at the firm holding the patent declined to give away their wonderful technology for the benefit of The People.

          You can perhaps understand why an association of manufacturers might oppose such rent-seeking. You can also unerstand why the patent holder might engage in it, and why self-aggrandizing politicans might jump on board in the name of "protecting the public."

          Still, I didn't know that SAAMI had done such lobbying... I stand corrected on that.

          --Shannon

          "It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." -- Emiliano Zapata Salazar
          "Dissent is patriotic. Blind obedience is treason." --me

          by Leftie Gunner on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:25:02 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  also, per SAAMI: (0+ / 0-)
        SAAMI is an accredited United Nations ECOSOC Non-Government Organization (NGO) with Consultative Status. For the last 25 years SAAMI has provided the UN with technical information related to SAAMI-member company products. The issues facing the UN are daunting and complex. Our goal is to be a technical resource for decision-makers. Since SAAMI has at its disposal the technical knowledge of the manufacturers of firearms and ammunition, we are in a unique position to provide factual and reality-based information.

        United Nations
        SAAMI is an accredited United Nations ECOSOC Non-Government Organization (NGO) with Consultative Status. We participate in meetings and discussions related to model regulations for transportation and storage (see SLARAC) as well as treaty negations related to small arms.

        ["negations" = a special term concerning ? reversal of previous treaties?]

        * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

        by greenbird on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:44:09 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  coming back to me now... (0+ / 0-)

        not NFPA who publishes fire and building safety standards including the National Electrical Code -- but similar.
        Publications: Title / Item Number (selected from list)
        A Century of Success in Reducing Firearms Accidents/221
        Market Size and Economic Impact of the Sporting Firearms and Ammunition Industry in America/222
        A Responsible Approach to Firearms Safety/223
        Excise Taxes on Firearms and Ammunition/224
        Absolute Liability/227
        Close to Home/228
        Owner Recognition Technology/229

        * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

        by greenbird on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:51:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  > gulp < (0+ / 0-)

        glossary and headquarters info:

        This working draft of a Glossary of Industry terms has been compiled by SAAMI's Technical Committee to facilitate technical interchanges between members of that committee. It is not intended to provide legal definition of the terms included, and, in light of further experience, the definitions of these terms may change. It is not intended to be comprehensive since it does not cover the full range of the diversity of the sporting arms and ammunition industry's products. It is, in other words, a working draft that, it is hoped, may be useful in addressing certain technical matters frequently considered by the Technical Committee and is subject to further change and refinement.

        It was the committee's decision that ONLY industry terms would be included which are unique to the firearms and ammunition industry directly. Optical terms have been omitted for the most part. Common metallurgical terms were not included because they are not unique to the industry. Where there is a common term with a usage unique to our industry, it has, however, been included.

        Terms made up of two or more words are defined under the principle word: e.g., a "Frangible Bullet" is defined under "Bullet, Frangible" or a "Free Rifle Stock" is defined under "Stock, Free Rifle."

        Copyright © 2009 by
        Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute
        Flintlock Ridge Office Center
        11 Mile Hill Road
        Newtown, CT 06470-2359
        All rights reserved

        .

        * Join: The Action: End the Bush Tax Cuts for Richest Two Percent * Addington's Perpwalk: TRAILHEAD of Accountability for Bush-2 Crimes.

        by greenbird on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:54:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm not sure (0+ / 0-)

    which of these things is not already illegal, but I'm not opposed.  It seems like proving intent would be harder than simply proving that the transactions occurred, but whatever.

    the purpose of the second amendment is to promote a well-regulated militia, in the same sense that the purpose of the first amendment is to promote a well-informed electorate.

    by happymisanthropy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 06:32:26 PM PST

  •  Its a good start (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wewantthetruth, Eric Nelson

    And much better than doing nothing.  As others stated, we need to make sure that enforcement is funded.

  •  My problem with the law (0+ / 0-)

    is in the first bullet point.

    • to buy or attempt to buy or transfer a firearm, with the intent of delivering it to someone the transferor knows, "or has reasonable cause to believe, is prohibited by Federal or State law from possessing a firearm";

    This is toothless without a manditory background check.
    Without the check, the 40% of firearm purchases that go from person to person, increasingly over the internet*, will go on unabaited.

    "Well, I didn't think he was a felon. He was so nice!"
    They also don't do anything to slow down the river of iron, flowing between states and nations. (US/Mexico)
    "I sold it to Guy A who swore that he has a clean record, he took them to the border and BAM suddenly he's selling them to guys in the cartels! Not my fault!"

    Without the background checks, or something to limit sales/purchases within a specific time frame, I suspect this will be just a hello kitty band-aide on a gaping hole in our collective craws.

    * This is a suspicion I haven't researched but come on, guns are like porn for armchair revolutionaries, and how do we get our porn now?

    Nicht durch Zorn, sondern durch Lachen tödtet man. ~Nietzsche

    by somewierdguy on Tue Feb 05, 2013 at 08:31:25 PM PST

    •  make it illegal to let go of a gun, (0+ / 0-)

      and you don't need this law.  80% of gun homicides are committed with guns the original purchasers let go of one way or another-- gave, lent, sold, pawned, lost.  

      While the Second Amendment says a person may have a gun, it doesn't give him a right to let it pass to someone else.  Make the gun buyer responsible for the use of a gun for its entire life, and you'll see 220 million more gun law enforcers working hard to keep their butts out of jail.

      Aborticentrism-- the closer life gets to being your responsibility, the less sacred it becomes

      by cgregor on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 12:56:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hey, they're taking a suggestion I've made (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    noway2

    before and trying to pass it!

    Wheee!!

    Republished to RKBA, though I don't agree with everything in MB's diary.

    Republicans cause more damage than guns ever will. Share Our Wealth

    by KVoimakas on Wed Feb 06, 2013 at 07:34:29 AM PST

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