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Rep. Joe Barton and Rep. John Boehner announce something or other.
Rep. Joe Barton (left) is working on immigration reform bill.
Whoa. Arch-conservative Texan Congressman Smokey Joe Barton claims he's introducing a comprehensive immigration reform bill:
“It takes care of the minor children, it puts them on a path to citizenship, it puts an emphasis on controlling the border, and it has a real guest worker program that will work. On the adults who came here illegally without documentation, we’ll do an individual check by check by check, and if the only illegal act they committed was coming into the country without the proper documentation, we will put them on a path to legalization, but not citizenship.”
House Speaker John Boehner has refused to bring the Senate bill to a vote, and much of the talk since then has been about piecemeal legislation. This is the first suggestion that Republicans are looking at a comprehensive bill, addressing the DREAMers, border security and legalization.

This House bill wouldn't deliver a path to citizenship like the Senate bill. Republicans still think that keeping 11 million Latinos as second-class citizens will help them win the votes of the nation's other 40+ million Latinos. But still, better legalized than deported, and they can still be granted citizenship once Republicans are flushed out of office.

But what's amazing is that Republicans are potentially moving at all, what with their base heavily invested in their xenophobia. And already jittery over the fail of "repeal," this might be just be a final blow to their November hopes. So why is Barton moving on this at all? Because of his son's classmates.

I’m part of a majority party in the largest state that’s still majority Republican [Texas], and I want to keep it that way. My little boy is 8-years-old. He’s in the public schools in Ennis, Texas, and half of his class is Hispanic and his two best friends are Hispanic. They start everyday raising their hand and Pledging Allegiance to the American flag and then the Texas flag. They’re Americans, and we need to acknowledge that and find a way for those who wish to be part of the American dream an opportunity to make them legal."
The conservative base is in for a rocky summer. And Republicans face a choice: Kill their base this cycle and probably next, or entirely kill their future chances of victory.

Originally posted to kos on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:12 AM PDT.

Also republished by LatinoKos and Daily Kos.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I don't thing the wingnuts need to worry yet. (13+ / 0-)

    I think it's all a set-up and that Republicans will walk away at the last minute, or before, claiming that Obama betrayed them in some made-up way.

    It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

    by Rich in PA on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:21:28 AM PDT

    •  Jeb and the sane ones are gonna need something.... (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tdor66, hbk, tuma, Gentle Giant, Tackle

      cause they don't want this to be an issue in 2016.

    •  GOP donors are no fools. (4+ / 0-)

      They don't like their millions flushed down the drain.

      They must have hinted Boehner and establishment, "don't come to us asking for millions for your nominee when he does not even have a legit shot presidency without some Latinos voting for him. "

      Kochs like to waste millions on a losing cause but not other GOP donors.

      •  Sure he does, the nominee that is. (4+ / 0-)

        Win the south, win those Reagan-Democrat states, you're all set.  Where is this mythical purple state where Hispanics could put Republicans over the top?  The closest I'm getting is Colorado and that's a huge stretch.

        It's not the side effects of the cocaine/I'm thinking that it must be love

        by Rich in PA on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:29:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Immigration reform is a gateway issue. (8+ / 0-)

          Sure, Latinos are not going to vote for GOP in droves if they voted for Immigration reform tomorrow.

          But GOP cannot reach to them on ANY issue right now.

          Passing immigration reform is bare minimum, first step that GOP has to take right now.

          Then they can think of Latino outreach.

          Or some form form of Immigration reform + Jeb Bush and Latina wife might do the trick (this might be their thinking)

        •  The youngest Reagan-Democrats (9+ / 0-)

          who actually voted for Reagan will be 50 in 2016. That 50+ group is hardly a growing demographic - or a path to the future for the TeaOP.

          I think the mythical purple states where the GOP needs the Hispanic vote are Texas and Arizona. The way demographics are changing, only ever-increasing voter suppression will keep them in GOP hands.

          Election Day is Nov 4th, 2014 It's time for the Undo button on the 2010 Election.

          by bear83 on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:28:05 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly and back in 80, when I was out GOTV for (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            bear83

            Carter and Democrats, as I had been doing 4 yrs previously, on a college campus and in the college town and outskirts, most of the so called Reagan Democrats were not college students but maybe their parents or grandparents.

            My parents and my dad's veterans and post office buddies at work were not Reagan Democrats at all..they all voted for Carter and then blasted Reagan for 8 yrs for union busting, same with my grandfather who was a coal miner in western PA.

            I think most  of those Reagan Democrats were non union and a bit older..certainly not most of the college students , grad students or their parents at that time..that we could see.

            Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

            by wishingwell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:02:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Most of the Reagan (4+ / 0-)

          Democrats have gone on to their great reward. They were all middle aged in 1980, that's like 35 years ago...also try Texas, South Carolina, North Carolina, Georgia, Arizona, even Utah for god's sake is going to go blue in the next 10 or 15 years, mostly if not exclusively because of the Hispanic vote.

    •  It's Election Time Again! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Subterranean

      I agree it is a stage Act.

      I believe if anything passes, it will ineffective measures in it and then they will bad mouth those mean Dems for not being serious about immigration. See we passed something and will not just to make us look bad..

      Something to that effect.

      Yet I do agree they are probably getting pressed by Corps (some Corps) to do something, and do it in a way they can still exploit those who they have been taking advantage of all these years...

      I could hope if I had not seen the same play and eaten the same popcorn before. It is stale and I am now, Fist show me and so me the written doc with details of how, when what. I do not believe anymore the words of the written for them scripts.

      Work In Progress...Laser Focus on Concepts of Evolving, Expanding Awareness.

      by Skyye on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:31:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  They won't be able to pass anything w/o Dems. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Skyye

        In the House you would only get 218 GOP votes for mass deportation. The trick is to get a majority of the GOP caucus on board for an immigration bill, while making it acceptable enough for Democrats to support it. It would then get passed by the Senate, Obama would sign it (what other domestic policy will he get this term?). Boehner would emerge as the big winner from this.

        That said, all of this is still a long shot. Many Republicans in theory support reform, but they are never willing to cast that magic vote for it. Whether or not they end up doing anything will largely depend on the upcoming primary season. Watch out on May 6th for North Carolina - will Tillis get 40 percent? And will Renee Ellmers and Walter Jones make the cut or not?

      •  Agree. My prediction on this: (0+ / 0-)

        1. GOP House will pass a 'poison pill' immigration act, which will be DOA in the Senate/WH.

        2. Then they throw their usual hissy fits blaming Dems, with Obama's huge deportation numbers as extra ammo.

        "What could BPossibly go wrong??" -RLMiller "God is just pretend." - eru

        by nosleep4u on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 11:00:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Wait... (9+ / 0-)

    Joe Barton's kid got through to him?
    They really don't see outside their tight little bubble, do they?

    If I ran this circus, things would be DIFFERENT!

    by CwV on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:22:52 AM PDT

  •  It's always the children, isn't it (7+ / 0-)

    First, all the flipflops because of the gay child. Now, the, um, democratization of the public schools some Republican congresscritters understand they HAVE to send their children to because of the optics.

    Well, whatever works in the name of progress, I guess.

    Seneca Falls, Selma, Stonewall

    by Dave in Northridge on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:23:02 AM PDT

    •  it IS the children (5+ / 0-)

      Do not underestimate the power of giving kids citizenship over their parents. Let me ask you a question.  If you were given a choice between giving a kid enough to eat while their parents go hungry, or vice versa, which would you choose?  Exactly.

      And this proposal is not nearly as drastic as that.  Parents are legal, kids, who are the future are now citizens.  That means that in most states when undocumented kids are considered second class citizens for the purposes of college, with the stark exception of Texas who does not, will now be able to attend the college at a state rate, which is only fair because the parents have probably been paying taxes for years.

      The kids will now be able to take full advantage of the opportunities of the US, something the parents probably deeply desire.

      About the only people this is marginally unfair to are the non-minor kids who have been here all their lives, going to school, playing by the rules, maybe graduating college, but not being able to benefit from that good work.

      The later, like the dream act, is not really a partisan issue.  The original Dream act lost in a Democratic congress  Almost no allegedly liberal state has the equality for undocumented minors and students that Texas offers.  I suspect that if we actually had a bill  over 40 million undocumented workers, not Latinos, it is quite offensive that only Latinos need to be legalized, we would here quite a bit from the more conservative Midwestern and northwestern part of the democratic base.  The South largely does not care, as it deals already.

  •  I'll believe it when I see it. (9+ / 0-)

    Boehner has no control of the house.  And the only Tea Party thought is a troglodyte No.

  •  Hmm... (15+ / 0-)

    "They start everyday raising their hand and Pledging Allegiance to the American flag and then the Texas flag."

    I find this rather creepy.

    "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

    by just another vet on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:30:18 AM PDT

    •  I find "everyday" used instead of every day dumb. (4+ / 0-)

      "He went to Harvard, not Hogwarts." ~Wanda Sykes
      Teh Twitterz, I'z awn dem.
      Blessinz of teh Ceiling Cat be apwn yu, srsly.

      by OleHippieChick on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:04:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I thought that was odd. (2+ / 0-)

      So endith the trick.

      by itsjim on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:43:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  "raising their hand" is what stopped me (gasp). (3+ / 0-)

      They place their hands over their hearts in this country.  Nazis raised their hands.

      Putting the fun back in dysfunctional.

      by hawkseye on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:52:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Me too as we pledged allegiance to the flag of (2+ / 0-)

      the United States of America and that was the only flag in all the classrooms I was in and later on , all the classrooms I have taught in within public and private schools. The only time I saw kids pledge allegiance to another flag was at some christian school is where they pledged allegiance to some flag with a cross but really it was a prayer type thing.

      I had no idea kids in some states pledge allegiance to that state or commonwealth. That is not done in most states unless I am mistaken?

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:07:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  You are the first to bring up this issue which is (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      just another vet

      why I am reading all the comments.  I was educated in Texas as a child and we sand the state song everyday which is really a big deal in many ways.  It is a rousing song but the things it says are terrible-----

      Oh empire wide and glorious you stand supremely best. God bless you Texas and keep you brave and strong so you may grow in power and worth throughout the ages long.

      I never pledged to the state flag and I am googling to find out what it says.

      The Texas Monthly spent a whole month's topic in the magazine on the issue of how to raise your kids to be Texicans.  The brain washing is so extensive now and these people think it is so normal.

      •  Instituted in 1933, the pledge is (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        just another vet

        I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.

        Added under God in 1965,  court ordered deleted but not followed in practice.  I graduated hs in 1962 so I missed this jewel.

        I graduated a national merit scholarship winner, 10th in my class in 356, black balled from honor society for a being a socialist by working to repeal the poll tax.   Mostly I was an inappropriate out spoken intelligent woman in Texas which was and is a still unpopular point of view. LOL

        I have such a love hate relationship with Texas.

      •  I went to school in Texas from 3rd grade through (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        yoduuuh do or do not

        college. And I had never even heard of a state pledge until a few years ago when I volunteered to judge speeches being given at a student event in For Worth. It blew my freaking mind.

        "The next time everyone will pay for it equally, and there won't be any more Chosen Nations, or any Others. Poor bastards all." ~The Boomer Bible

        by just another vet on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 07:04:01 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for the encouraging new markos. (14+ / 0-)

    My electoral "spider-senses" are starting to get a "little tingle" that we may be heading for a surprisingly better election this November than everyone is expecting and the explanation will be two fold.

    First, we are going to be able to get our base charged up more htan usual for an off cycle election so our voter participation rates may be higher than usual, because we are gong to galvanize ourselves as a Party and do what needs to be down through sheer force of will and determination. Not historical levels maybe but enough to get the jobs done. We should especially target young voters, AA, whose off-cycle voting usually falls off the cliff and women and Hispanics who have a lot to be steamed about. Although with the later some steam is at us, for record high deportations which we should try to fix ASAP so it doesn't look like a last minute Machiavellian after thought which it will sadly be.

    Secondly, centrists, independents, and even some Republicans are growing weary and disgusted by the sheer spiteful destructiveness of the obstructionists in the far right and Tea Party and some want a functional government of either party rather than what we have now. We should cultivate this them articulating the idea let the Democrats have two years to do what we should have had eight years to do - show American what a party that believe in a functional government can do with a fair experiment. The GOP has not allowed a fair experiment so we are about to waste what may be a last chance for another eight years.

    If Democrats win the Presidency but the GOP keeps the House or wins the Senate we could go on like this until 2024. Gak!

    Lots of little things give me this  optimistic"spider sense"tingle" beyond my natural tendency to be overly optimistic about the future.

    The news of possible  Republican softening Markos brings us, the Democracy Corp poll this morning showing Obamacare improving its image in swing states Joan McCarterr just posted and the forth ranking Republican in the House admitting on Friday Obamacare is here to stay.

    If my prediction is right everyone has to agree to call me "Spider Dog" from here on out.

    Gak! Wait, I don't especially like Spiders. Well, I'll think of something.  

    "Seriously, Folks, WTH?" - ("What the Heck? "h/t Joan McCarter, Seriously, Florida. WTF?)

    by HoundDog on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 11:31:51 AM PDT

    •  Agreed... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      defluxion10, Aquarius40, allensl

      Just posted in another thread the idea that Romney's 47% of the vote might be the Republican ceiling, at least at the national level.

      I'm going to go play with some numbers to see if it's credible and I may post a diary on this topic, time permitting.

      UNDELETE my socialist f*ckstick Markos!

      by T J Lewis on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:05:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No longer the floor? nt (0+ / 0-)

        "If this Studebaker had anymore Atomic Space-Age Style, you'd have to be an astronaut with a geiger counter!"

        by Stude Dude on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:36:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Originally... (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          allensl, Stude Dude

          That is to say, in November 2012, I did think it was the floor: I think my exact reaction was "he conned HOW MANY people into voting for him?!"

          But since then, what I've seen on the right suggests that they didn't buy the con - they weren't voting for Romney, but against Obama. Well that won't hunt now - Obama isn't on the ticket. They think their leadership has sold them out and they're not motivated.

          In my view, 2010 was our floor: we've re-grouped and we're now fighting. Look at Begich in Alaska, or Pryor in Arkansas - hell, look at Landrieu in Louisiana: facing tough elections, none of them is running away from social security, or away from the ACA.  Look at the energy on things like minimum wage, pot legalisation. Look at the pushback against chained CPI (remember that?).

          This probably needs more thought, and it definitely needs some number-crunching, but I'm hopeful for 2014. Time permitting, I'll try and do a diary on it.

          UNDELETE my socialist f*ckstick Markos!

          by T J Lewis on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:47:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Depends. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Stude Dude

        If the economy went into a tailspin now, or if top Obama administration officials got involved in major scandals, a Republican president would be a done deal. Right now, though, Republicans need to contend with unfavorable demographics in battleground states like Colorado, Virginia or Nevada.

        IMO the GOP lost ground in the Electoral College when it was locked out of the Northeast starting in 1992. W/o the Northeast and the West Coast, you only have a very narrow path to victory left, which was only really achieved once, during Bush's close reelection in 2004 post 9/11 (2000 was a virtual tie with some fraud added).

    •  We’ll just call you (0+ / 0-)

      Arakhnokuon, and you can shrug and say ‘It’s all Greek to me’.

    •  Here in California, we just got our absentee (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      raspberryberet

      primary ballots which are mailed automatically if you sign up for it.  I haven't been paying too close attention, but I think soon people can register to vote on-line.  No one worries about voter fraud here so people are actually encouraged to vote.  I shudder to think what would happen if Republicans took over the legislature, however.  You probably wouldn't get to vote unless you had an oligarch's I.D. card or proof that your ancestors arrived on the Mayflower or owned a plantation.

      Putting the fun back in dysfunctional.

      by hawkseye on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:02:28 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This will turn ugly (10+ / 0-)

    No way the reflexively racist wingnuts will go quietly into the night. They will fume, scream betrayal, stomp their feet--and open their mouths. We must brace ourselves for more offensively crazy rhetoric that will further alienate everyone outside the teabagging bubble.

    •  Ask and ye shall receive... (13+ / 0-)

      From ultra right-wing Hot Air site:

      Three House Republicans signal new push on immigration reform is coming

      Three that I’ve noticed, that is. There may be more beneath my radar, and if there are, please e-mail me the links so that I can add them as updates. And no, I’m not including Adam Kinzinger or Aaron Schock in this. If you count them too, then we’ve got five different GOPers suddenly talking this up.

      As Trotsky famously said, you may not be interested in amnesty but amnesty is interested in you. First up: Cathy McMorris-Rodgers, the highest-ranking Republican woman in the House, who delivered the official party rebuttal to the State of the Union back in January. She’s also the only one of the three to float a concrete timeline.

      McMorris Rodgers said she still thinks a deal could be struck before the election. “I believe there is a path that we get a bill on the floor by August,” she said.

      Again, it’ll come down to whether Boehner is willing to violate the Hastert Rule and pass a comprehensive bill (or series of bills that amount to a comprehensive bill) with a majority of Democrats and minority of Republicans. After last week’s outburst, would you put it past him?

      The comments are delightful!!! If you are brave enough to take a look...

      http://hotair.com/...

    •  Baggers are very racist and they also hate all (0+ / 0-)

      immigrants. After the Boston Bombing, the baggers were talking about deporting all Russian immigrants along with all other immigrants.

      Keystone Liberals on Twitter @ KeystoneLibs , Join PA Liberals at http://keystoneliberalsforum.aimoo.com/

      by wishingwell on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:08:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  So his boy has Latino friends (9+ / 0-)

    As always, conservatives can have empathy, but only for someone close to them. They just refuse to imagine the circumstances of people who aren't them. No wonder liberals engage in so much nuance: most things get more complicated when you consider the other person's point of view.

    •  What other friends does he have? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Stude Dude, Mr MadAsHell, wishingwell

      Friends without health care?  Friends with gay parents?  How about friends with parents who make minimum wage? Or have lost their homes?  Or are underwater on mortgages?  Or are long term unemployed?

    •  Not that they refuse to imagine circumstances. (0+ / 0-)

      They can't. If they had that breadth of mind, their conservative beliefs, its tenets and dogma, would collapse.
      In conservative thought, the "other" must be made to change to become conservative, because their beliefs and reality does not appeal to the majority, no matter how much they love to say that our nation is a right-oriented nation.
      If they had majority thought, why suppress votes? Why gerrymander districts?

      "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

      by Gentle Giant on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:54:18 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is about the ACA (6+ / 0-)

    If this was still a potent weapon for repubs like they had banked on, then they would not be reconsidering immigration reform.  Can you imagine that we might win on both issues this year?  Sure glad Obama got that pen and that phone.  :D

  •  think of parallels on marriage equality (5+ / 0-)

    for example, Rob Portman and Charles Cooper both changed their minds on marriage equality because of their gay sons.

    As more and more people either directly or through their children encounter people whose lives would be improved by comprehensive immigration reform, it becomes more likely

    and the demographics of the electorate are changing in a way that will make those who continue to oppose it ever more marginalized, even in gerrymandered districts

    "Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go do it, because what the world needs is more people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

    by teacherken on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 12:42:14 PM PDT

  •  If it's not to late yet get a Democrat on every (4+ / 0-)

    Ballot for the House and Senate in the Country don't let any Republican run unopposed anywhere cause the Republican Gerrymandering Plot may not be working out as planned.

  •  Legalization but not citizenship? An opening (8+ / 0-)

    to be exploited.

    We have a wedge right there.  their kids get a "pathway"--not the DREAM Act, but a "pathway", and the parents get second class status.

    Nice.

    "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." --M. L. King "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:06:37 PM PDT

  •  Don't understand the half way bullshit here (8+ / 0-)

    make them legal but no citizenship? Doesn't that piss off both his base and hispanics?

  •  And so it begins. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bananapouch1

    The great Republican walkback of nativism, 21st Century version. Inevitable as it is bad news for Dems counting on demographics to save their Party.

    "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

    by bryduck on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:21:03 PM PDT

    •  lol--if so, the 'walkers' would take about 25% of (0+ / 0-)

      current registered republicans with them.  Maybe the rest will go ahead and form an official Nativist Party.  Either way I don't think the Dems are especially threatened by this development.

      Though it is, of course, great news for John McCain...

      •  Because (0+ / 0-)

        third parties is how the conservatives have rolled, even when forestalled for decades on their pet issues? I think many here are vastly underestimating the power of the "R" on these peoples' soon-to-have voter ID cards. They have had the Dem Party demonized for well over 40 years with little to no effective pushback, and there is no evidence whatsoever that any single issue unmet has shaken free enough voters to kill off their Party.
        I hope I'm wrong, of course, but I just don't see a Party as well-organized and authoritarian as the Republicans simply rolling over and letting demographics destroy it.

        "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

        by bryduck on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 04:10:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree that a RW 3rd-party is unlikely; but to me (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          bryduck

          it's unlikely because the Leadership (whatever that means anymore) is not likely to attempt a wholesale abandonment of nativism.  We may just disagree in our analysis of the dynamics of the GOP over the past 10-20 years.  I think 20 years ago the Southern-Strategy, evangelical conservatives were still just a useful adjunct to the Rockefeller/Bush corporate wing.  Now the Rockefellers are pretty much gone, and the nativist conservatives are vastly more powerful in the party and vastly more represented at every level.  Would you honestly have been able to believe, 10 years ago, that the well-organized and authoritarian GOP would have permitted something like the '12 primary clown show, or the self-defeating senate primary dynamics in '10 and '12?  I think not.  I think it's a different animal now.  

          But we'll soon see....

          •  I think they saw rightly (0+ / 0-)

            that nobody they had anywhere could defeat Obama in 2012, so they let the clown show go on--and let those idiots clear the field of memories of W. In fact, I think they really don't care one bit about the Presidency, because they know that as long as they hold even 1/2 of 1/3 of the government (since they currently hold the House and the SC, there's a big cushion for them), they win, because all they need to win is to gum up the works (which explains 2010 and 2012 Senate, too.) If they get a demagogue to win the WH every now and then, all the better, but until 2022 reapportionment, at least, they are set.

            "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

            by bryduck on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 12:37:59 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Ok, so you're saying 1) that Mitt and his billion- (0+ / 0-)

              dollar funders, and Fox nation and the army of unskewers, did NOT expect or even want to win in '12? and 2) that "they" intentionally threw the Senate two elections running, because who needs it?  And 3) that "they" won't be at all bothered by Hillary winning in '16, because who needs the presidency either? (even though the SCOTUS is one Scalia retirement away from losing their majority...)  Who exactly is this 'they', in your view?  If we're talking about the Trilaterial Commission or the Davos people who, yes of course, Actually Run the World, Regardless of All Pretense to Democrat Institutions, then sure.  But I think the Republican Party as an institution, and funders of same, still want to win actual elections.   And you began by saying that Dems (and esp here on DK) were mistakenly counting on demographics to 'save them', presumably as in help them win elections, no?  I don't hear a lot of people on Kos claiming that demographic shifts are going to directly assault our Insect Overlords anytime soon--that's a different discussion. Presumably the insect overlords would just finish coopting the Democratic party as an institution--or at least do their best--if it became the dominant power.  But they would not actually rename it the "Republican Party."  Parties in the US do die out, over time, just as they also mutate beyond recognition...
               

              •  1) Sure Mitt wanted to win. (0+ / 0-)

                Did it matter to his funders that he didn't? I would say, "Not too much, no." Nice to have the WH, not necessary.
                2) Where did I say they are "throwing" anything? I'm saying that they don't care that much about those elections, because having either the WH or the Senate is immaterial when they control the House and they already have enough lege on the books to suit their purposes. They've already won, now they just have to prevent us from taking away their stuff.
                3) Yes. See above. As long as they hold the House (the SC is a bonus), they can completely forestall any attempts we can make to rectify our problems.

                "They" = the Republican Party and its backers, if not its electorate. Of course its pols want to win, but since 2001, if not earlier, enough legislation has already been passed and cleared by the SC to have regressed our economy to a pre-New Deal era structure; they don't need to pass any more. They just need to block real efforts at reform, and having the House works as well to do that as having all of the other Branches/arms of the government. They win by having nothing get done, which actually reinforces their age-old cry that government doesn't work.
                If they can rejigger their stance on immigration, which it seems they are in the process of doing, they can capture (recapture, really) enough of the conservative religious immigrant population to prevent the demographic shifts that many here on DKos are pointing to as the death knell of the Republican Party. I can see them doing just that, because of a) their appeal to authoritarians, who do what they are told, even if it is 180 degrees different from what they were told 5 minutes ago; and 2) they have no qualms about making shit up and having no set rhetorical platform they actually care about enforcing.
                Lastly, the last major party to "die" was, as you probably know, the Whigs. That was 160 years ago--a really long time. Expecting the Republican Party to follow its predecessor, when all evidence suggests that they will instead "evolve", is, imho, a very bad bet, especially given its extremely well-funded nature and allied conservatives control over most of our country's media and industries.

                "Lone catch of the moon, the roots of the sigh of an idea there will be the outcome may be why?"--from a spam diary entitled "The Vast World."

                by bryduck on Tue Apr 29, 2014 at 05:21:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Unfortunately, that stack of papers is filled with (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    La Gitane

    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.
    All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

    Dear Media: a camo hat and assault rifle doesn't make one a militiaman any more than plaid pants and a fancy driver makes one a golf pro.

    by here4tehbeer on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:24:20 PM PDT

  •  Bill Maher had an interesting take on (2+ / 0-)

    How the GOP has a 6% approval rating, but they will get overwhelmingly reelected anyway.  It seems Gerrymandering has turned them into Kings instead of Congressmen and women.

  •  Not Going To Happen This Year (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aquarius40, bananapouch1

    They want the tea party to come out and vote.  Most of republican districts are against immigration reform.  

    "Don't Let Them Catch You With Your Eyes Closed"

    by rssrai on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:31:23 PM PDT

  •  Ain't gonna happen (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bananapouch1

    They will keep making these noises right up until the election, then it'll die down for another year or so...

  •  the plutocrats have won (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FishOutofWater, Subterranean

    They need their cheap labor and have no choice but to keep these people in the country over the base's objections, and the only way they can do that without letting them vote is as guest workers.

    Especially note this:

    On the adults who came here illegally without documentation, we’ll do an individual check by check by check, and if the only illegal act they committed was coming into the country without the proper documentation, we will put them on a path to legalization, but not citizenship.”
    They can't do anything about the kids and grandkids without repealing the Fourteenth Amendment, but they can keep the actual immigrants from voting.

    Domestic politics is the continuation of civil war by other means.

    by Visceral on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:34:36 PM PDT

  •  I just hope we don't cave to this ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Stude Dude

    Legal-but-not-a-citizen riff.

    I want VOTERS to come out of this deal.

    •  And I wanted the public option - (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      bananapouch1

      turns out I had to settle for the ACA. Which may, in turn, lead to the public option.

      I agree that we want voters - but if they stay here, there'll be continual pressure for citizenship; don't underestimate what that can achieve. If they're deported, they're out of sight, out of mind.

      UNDELETE my socialist f*ckstick Markos!

      by T J Lewis on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:53:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let them pass something... (3+ / 0-)

    ... and send it to a conference committee.  Boehner will appoint just enough people to swing it towards the Senate bill. What comes out will be straight to the floor, and if close to the Senate bill, the Dems and enough GOP will vote to pass it.

    My guess is that the conference won't report out until it can be timed for the Lame Duck sessions after the elections. GOP Leadership, and their Corporate Masters, want this passed and off the table as a talking point before the 2016 cycle starts. If they're trying to thread the needle, Lame Duck is the time for it to get through.

    •  Boehner is against the conference committee (0+ / 0-)

      He said that he will never go to conference over the Senate bill. Basically, the options left now are like this: Boehner gets a majority of the GOP caucus to secretly sign off to immigration reform (and has the implicit support of some Democrats), the GOPers then proceed to introduce multiple immigration bills dealing with legalization, DREAMers, etc. They then rush them through the House Judiciary Committee and bring them to the floor the week after that, before opposition builds up. The Senate will at most make some amendments, and Obama will then sign the bills.

      This is a long shot to be sure, but this is how it would work. Boehner would then be the main victor of the immigration fight.

  •  Wait a minute... (3+ / 0-)
    They start everyday raising their hand and Pledging Allegiance to the American flag and then the Texas flag.
    Kids in Texas pledge allegiance to their state too???

    No wonder Texans are really weird about the wonderful awesome spectacularness of their state. They're indoctrinated while young.

    "Non-violence is a powerful and just weapon which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by Gentle Giant on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:39:28 PM PDT

  •  Rebranding Stupid & Offensive Immigration "Reform" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bananapouch1

    means lowering the voltage on the electrified, razor wire-topped, 20 ft.-high border fence, smaller alligators in the moat that parallells that fence, guards with poor marksmenship skills in the guard towers, and less deadly drones patrolling the border.

  •  Ain't gonna work for the Repubs, Kos (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bananapouch1

    Repubs policies are economically destructive to their base. Racism and nativism is the glue that holds their party together.

    “Industry does everything they can and gets away with it almost all the time, whether it’s the coal industry, not the subject of this hearing, or water or whatever. They will cut corners, and they will get away with it. " Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D, WVa

    by FishOutofWater on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:47:50 PM PDT

  •  "Legalization" Verses "Citizenship" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    That's what this seems to be coming down to.  I fear that legalization will not be a temporary stop on the eventual path towards citizenship, but a roadblock to citizenship.  Republicans will never willingly give these people the right to vote, because that spells electoral disaster for them.  

    I can't help but feel that we would all be better off if this were left as a campaign issue for November 2014, to give us a chance to control both Houses and pass the Senate bill.  If we don't take the House, we can re-visit a compromise bill during the lame duck session before the end of the year.

    "Some men see things as they are and ask, 'Why?' I dream of things that never were and ask, 'Why not?"

    by Doctor Who on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:48:29 PM PDT

  •  Legalization may be acceptable (0+ / 0-)

    A sociologist with expertise in the Mexican immigrant community tells me that, among immigrants, deportation is a bigger concern than citizenship and that only about 25% of adults would take a path to citizenship if one is offered. (This is based on the results of the 1086 reform legislation.)

    In other words, legalization of adults may be acceptable as long as children can attain citizenship. The devil is in the details, of course, but if the practical bar is actually at legalization, it may be time to declare victory.

    "There is no room for injustice anywhere in the American mansion." Lyndon Johnson

    by pkgoode on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:51:25 PM PDT

  •  GOP at last just being practical.... (0+ / 0-)

    I know, I know that the GOP lives in a alternate universe, that facts or reality have never been their forte, but I think the money people have finally accepted that they have to defy the base...because reality stinks.
    and here is it - Without Latino votes, the GOP can never get to the WH again.
    -So they need to start making amends (at the cost of pissing off the base for now)
    -Take the sheen off Obama/Dems and claim that they passed it.
    -Expect them to claim credit when on Latino TV but play it down on FOX.
    But would the R-wingnuttery let them get away with it? That's where  the battle is, not even with dems..
    -Would some dead-ender Tea-party group run ads claiming any GOPer  who voted for it has committed sacrilege? Is an Obama minion?
    -This is pretty much clear...the GOP CANNOT let this issue drag into 2016...they just can't.
    -So yes, they'll piss off the base now or immediately after November and try to put this issue behind them..

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis, 1935 --Talk of foresight--

    by tuma on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:52:49 PM PDT

  •  I see how this is necessary for 2016 presidential (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, raspberryberet

    but how does this sort of talk work with GOP primary voters:

    They’re Americans, and we need to acknowledge that and find a way for those who wish to be part of the American dream an opportunity to make them legal."
    I expect this talk to fade as the fall elections approach, otherwise the GOP will experience a November bloodbath.  No fucking way do the racist, jingoistic, nativist teabaggers support immigration reform of this caliber.  They will stay home and the elections will be ours, and fairly won.

    "When I was an alien, cultures weren't opinions" ~ Kurt Cobain, Territorial Pissings

    by Subterranean on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 01:53:24 PM PDT

  •  Freepers Are On it (0+ / 0-)

    Kos is just getting an early jump on his nutpicking feature:

    http://www.freerepublic.com/...

  •  I always wondered if (0+ / 0-)

    the record number of deportations under Obama wasn't part of a strategy in all of this and has led to where we are today with this apparent turnaround.  First, the Republicans inserted a poison pill into any negotiations for comprehensive immigration reform that the borders would have to be air-tight (and agreed upon by all the border state governors who for the most part happen to be Republican) before they'd ever vote for extending rights and a path for citizenship.  By strictly enforcing the law Obama called their bluff while doing some things to ease some suffering such as with his dream act executive order.  

    Creating an expanded border patrol presence too also was a federal job pool he could expand during a time when the Republicans were intentionally shrinking all others.  Our economy direly needed that infusion.  

    The final part of this was that those deportions created a cheap labor shortage in the country which splintered the large business leaders as they saw their fields unharvested and their profits shrink.  

    Sure seems like master chess playing to me albeit with people's lives a bit but great leaders have to always look at the total war and not the individual battle outcomes.  

  •  My suggestion to Ds in Congress. (0+ / 0-)

    Vote for this, and make very clear that the first D majority in both Houses will pursue adding a path to citizenship.

  •  While this is a good thing... (0+ / 0-)

    as per usual, Republicans can't understand a damn thing unless it happens to them.

    No foresight, no imagination, no empathy.  Is it a wonder why their party is a graveyard of dead ideas??

    Money should be treated like any other controlled substance; if you can't use it responsibly then you don't get to use it.

    by La Gitane on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:32:01 PM PDT

  •  Sniff (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Arbo, raspberryberet

    Smokey Joe is my own little congresscritter.  Yesterday he claimed he was a Wingnut's Wingnut and would save TX - 6 from the brown horde.   Today he discovers that the brown horde is what the rest of us call "Neighbors".  

    Sniff.  I'm so proud.

    There's a very simple reason that Obamacare hit 8 million sign-ups: Being uninsured is horrible. - S. Kliff

    by BurningFeet on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 02:49:49 PM PDT

  •  Told ya so n/t (0+ / 0-)

    "All politics is national."

    by Auriandra on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:22:57 PM PDT

  •  GOP's #1 priority already failed (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raspberryberet

    Namely, McConnell's dream of making Barack Obama a one-term president.

    If all the games and false crises from 2009 on were for that singular purpose, and it all failed to produce the desired result, why not try actually governing again?

    Best race ever - MI-AG(2002) - Cox vs. Peters. You know you get the joke...

    by Arbo on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:27:10 PM PDT

  •  Told ya so (0+ / 0-)

    "All politics is national."

    by Auriandra on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 03:28:47 PM PDT

    •  You Got to be Crapping Me (0+ / 0-)

      How will the Rs ever pass a immigration reform bill?  Their base HATES those undocumented, brown folk.  Have you ever read any of the comments on conservative blogs.  I live among them -- and all I here is their contempt for "illegal aliens" taking all those great jobs that would normally go to god-fearing, gun toting, Christian white folk.

      •  If Boehner opens the vote... (0+ / 0-)

        The GOP has its base in a headlock. They swept in in 2010 & controlled the state houses & redistricted.

        Boehner is ridiculing his base & making promises to the Fat Cats. He'll go down next session, but he's ready for that. It's a pretty thankless job.

        "All politics is national."

        by Auriandra on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 08:16:46 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Whoever is the Democratic nominee in 2016 (0+ / 0-)

    should perhaps adopt this as their theme song.If you vote Republican

  •  Second-class citizenship (0+ / 0-)

    Legalization without citizenship is the worst possible outcome, worse even than no reform, worse than continued illegal status.  

    We already tried this "guest worker" thing once in this country.  Only last time we called it slavery, which is more honest.

    The states must be abolished.

    by gtomkins on Mon Apr 28, 2014 at 07:51:37 PM PDT

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