Skip to main content

 photo Texas31_zpsa9bed104.jpg

Cynthia Shahan of Clean Technica reports Residential Solar Cheaper Than Grid Electricity In 25 States By 2015, Utility CEO States. The cost of solar panels has come down 75% in the last four years. Although a trade war with China and India over low cost solar panels will be a "bump in the road," this basic trend is going to continue as the learning curve for the global solar photovoltaic industry is now well established at a 20% reduction of unit manufacturing cost for every doubling of the installed base.

David Crane, CEO of utility NRG sees major disruptive impact for the traditional U.S. utilities industries, and he has decided to "switch rather than fight."

David Crane, who runs NRG Energy, says that in fully half the states of the union, electricity from residential solar panels will be cost-competitive with that delivered by local electric utilities by next year.

Another important matter is that electric vehicles will enable a more decentralized, self-sufficient energy system. John writes: “Once homes can not only generate but store energy, it’s at least possible they could decouple from the grid entirely–meaning they’re lost to their local utility forever.”

“Crane is positioning NRG to be the supplier of solar arrays, fuel cells, and microturbines to power customers in this age of grid obsolescence,” Navigant Research writes. “It’s remarkable to see a utility betting on the grid’s eventual obsolescence, but it’s important to note that within that framework, NRG is still maintaining its core business as a power provider.”

Crane certainly seems to be the exception among utility leaders Many have joined efforts with ALEC to rollback or delay state Renewable Portfolio Standards, RPS, to add fees, or minimum bills to those solar customers who use net metering, and also to reduce the price payed to external solar producers.  

China has taken a more positive and wiser strategy using this knowledge to buy its way down the solar industry learning curve. Rather than ask, "how long will it be before solar energy generation can match, or beat the cost of coal generation?" They asked, "how much would it cost to make solar energy less expensive than coal?  [Update: China is currently either one of the worst, or I think possibly the worst coal polluter in the world and as becoming even more so by building more new coal plants even now than any other country. And China has an enormous self-induced pollution problem. (Thanks to duhban for reminding me of this. My point here is not to glorify China but send a wake-up call to us in the U.S. by taking a poke at our automatic assumptions of superiority and exceptionalism without regard to facts.)']  

Reports are when Chinese leaders heard how small this cost was compared to the damage in health cost coal is causing them, and the size of their economy, they laughed and said "make it so."

This is the explanation behind the mysterious series of $10 to $30 billion per year of Chinese government sponsored solar projects  over the recent years. Some short-sighted critics here scoffed, however, the Chinese were investing in their future - priming the pump. Now they may reap the returns on that clever investment for centuries.

Hundreds of years from now stories of this victory my be read in history books like we read about great battles from the past like WWII. Maybe this brilliant investment will be retold in Chinese history books as one of the key factors enabling China to pull ahead in the economic wars and leave us in the dust. Maybe they will have a special day of celebration like we have Pearl Harbor day?  

The latest report I've read, which I am writing up in between moving, is that in China, solar energy will achieve grid parity in 2016 or at latest 2017 - a full four to five years sooner than they expected because of their brilliant use of learning curve strategy.

 photo Texas71_zps2a91b0b5.jpg

Yes, the U.S has enacted trade barrier tariffs against them because of what we call
"unfair subsidies" of their industry, however, the Chinese seem to feel confident they made the wiser strategic decision for four reasons.

1. From 2016 on-wards there will be no economic reason to build any more coal plants, and shortly thereafter they can start phasing out existing plants at a profit.

2. China can gain geopolitical prestige and soft-power by leading the rest of the world into the future and then chastising the U.S. for our backward coal burning ways. In a move that will be poignant and even galling to many of us here, China may even eventually propose global trade sanctions against backward countries like the U.S. who selfishly insist on burning coal and fossil fuels, thereby jeopardizing the earth's atmosphere with global warming, like an anti-social drug addict, or sociopath who cares not about how how actions impact others around the world.

An, argument many of of us have been using to fend off climate change deniers who skeptically ask, "what if we make our industries convert away from coal, but the Chinese do not" - I'm one of many who have suggested the rest of the world is so eager to avoid global environmental and economic disaster that punishing sanctions will be imposed on any laggards who refuse to curtail the burning of fossil fuels. So we should push ahead, regardless of what the Chinese do. What a sad irony that our own arrogance may be turned around against us, in a surprising move of jui-jitsu.  

3. China's cost savings from the learning curve  will be able to exceed the extra cost of U.S. solar panel trade tariffs the next time the installed base doubles, then achieve profits with the strategy after that.

4. China then emerges as the dominant global player in solar energy technologies invented, and cultivated down the first 50 years of the learning curve by the U.S. when the new technologies were outrageously expensive. But sadly, our backwards political leaders slept, or solve themselves, and our country, out to coal industry lobbyists, and ALEC, for a few pieces of silver.  

For a sound track for this post just select the play triangle while you continue to read.


The Beatles- Here Comes The Sun




What an inspiring display of superior strategic thinking, and action. Germany now seems to be in the process of using the same industrial strategy with solar batteries. This has been one of my areas of professional consulting, and if the Chinese succeed in this strategy I will have to say it will be on the most brilliant examples of successful application of learning curve strategy since the Japanese  returned from a bombed out wasteland after WWII to capture our consumer electronics and auto industries.

In both cases, too many in the U.S. have their heads up their .... in the clouds talking about free markets, and spouting anti-government tripe opposing any national U.S. economic development strategies and industrial policies that nearly every other nation of the world eagerly seizes upon.

Germany is now positioning itself to dominate the solar storage (battery) industry.

While it is sad to see America stumbling like a drunk at a track meet, it is encouraging in a way to know the rest of the human race is picking up the torch of leadership, to move ahead with or without us.

Our traitorous right-wing science deniers, and ALEC organized coal lobbyist may be powerful enough to sadly bring down our great nation, but they will not be powerful enough to bring down humankind. When one country fails in its capability and willingness to lead, they fall, and another country picks up the torch.

We've seen it dozens of times throughout history. We might have go face the chilling truth that with so many right-wing ideologues, and their backers from ALEC willing to subvert the best interests of our country, the extra burden of this albatross around our necks, we may not be able to compete or keep up with other nations who are united in their efforts to succeed, thrive, and revitalize their economies and jobs base.

Of course, theoretically, it is no too late for the U.S. to decide to jump back into the game, however, we would have to find a way to convert, or "offload" the anti-government  Republicans and Tea Party extremists  into realizing that one of the roles all most all other nations assign to their government is to use the most strategic, and advantageous economic and industrial policies to cultivate and maintain their nations' economic superiority and competitiveness.

I've proposed many times over the last years that we organize ourselves to make a play for the most intelligent of the foreign policy and pro-defense, Republicans as well as the most patriotic and educated of the pro-economic growth Republicans, with almost zero support in response.

 photo german_solar_farm_zpsf739d698.jpg

My hope is that at some point the number of high paying, high-value added jobs, industries, and technologies we have lost to other countries who are successively working explicit, public non-secret, plans to take these from us, will be enough to wake up a sufficient number of people to the fact that we need to wake up, smell the coffee, or pull our heads out of .... the clouds, or whatever metaphor works for folks and get back into the game of making our economy a thriving prosperous, world class economic power once again.

And when we invent amazing new, industry creating technologies we ought to make serious, strategic, smart, effective national economic and industrial policies for using them to create jobs and economic prosperity in our country, and not give them away while our political leaders line their pockets with silver from ALEC and the coal industry.

It's why I founded Keynesian Kossacks to get this message out along with the need to support and expand President Obama's infrastructure expansion projects, (which include upgrading electric transmissions lines making solar and wind more cost competitive in broader regions, and improves intermittency issues with wider areas load averaging.

All these this work together in an excellent, powerful, what should be an easy to implement plan.

If we put it together and articulate such a plan, much better than we have so far, we should be able to convert enough pro-economic growth, and pro-national defense Republicans to pass it even in a GOP dominated house.

I admit Keynesian Kossacks may have been a poor choice for a name, and we never really articulated our strategy, so I guess I have to take personal responsibility for our nation's puttering economic, however, let's not give up yet. If anyone else wants to take the reigns, I will stand aside.  

What's a better name? What's is the better communication strategy? Who are the more vigorous leaders who can move this agenda forward?

What's a better way to communicate this message of the enormous potential for economic growth and good, solid, green jobs in developing a national economic development and industrial policy based on accelerating our conversion to renewable energy sources, and modernizing our nations infrastructure the way China, and nearly all other advanced industrial economies are doing?

Let's focus some creativity, passion, and intelligence here folks, and keep some of America's leading new technologies, industries, and jobs in America. A strong thriving economy benefits us all. The need to convert to cleaner, non-fossil-fuel burning energy sources is overwhelmingly clear.

We know what the new technologies are going to be, because we invented them. We still have smart, bold, entrepreneurs like Elon Musk (Chairmen of one of America's top solar companies, SolarCity, he is also CEO of Telsa Motors and SpaceX.) and enough of an industrial base we should be able to stay in this game, despite the fact that we fell asleep at the wheel and let the Chinese take the lead. We still have American entrepreneurs and workers who know how to make things and want to make things.

But, right now right-wing ideologues are shooting themselves in the foot, (and the rest of us too) by joining with ALEC to fight solar energy, and roll back state Renewable Energy Portfolios, RPSs. A few weeks ago Governor John Kasich (R-OH) signed an ALEC backed law delaying Ohio's RPS plans for two years and getting rid of some of the incentives for solar. Now they are shooting up their legs. Let's intervene and get them to stop before they start shooting off some really important parts.  

If we were thinking like the Republicans we would be demanding that John Kasich be arrested and shot for treason. Here we are in a global economic war with the largest, most powerful bunch of real communists in the world, who is eating our lunch, - drinking our milkshake, and this treacherous traitor John Kasich, aids and abets the enemy by trying to chop off America's patriotic Ohio solar and wind power entrepreneurs who are fighting a battle to keep America strong and competitive while China tries to steal our core American advanced technologies?  

 photo Texas41_zps911ca419.jpg

Like I said, it is a good thing we do not think like Republicans and despise their jingoistic claptrap or we might say things like:

This is a friggin' outrage. Where is Darryl Issa when we need him? We need a full investigation of John Kasich, ALEC, and any politicians associated with this anti-American operation to see if they have any connections to these communists trying to steal or solar and wind industries, technologies, and jobs.

Is that how low we have to go to peel off 10% of the GOP to join us in being strong? Because if that is the answer, I know how to play that game. How do we expect to keep up with Chinese defense spending if their economy surpasses ours, and it is only a matter of time at 7% - 10% per year compound growth rates. - a clear and present danger.

Perhaps, they best place to start this investigation is to print out the names of all the corporations supporting ALEC, and investigate any and all of their commercial, and any other connections to China? What other reason could there be to explain why ALEC is fighting to undermine solar and wind power at every level? John Kasich is only one example of the many state level attempts to undermine the Renewable Portfolio Standards that is one of our front lines of defense. R

Investments in renewable energy promote of our emerging American solar and wind industries, (make note to Ohio press - check Kashich and ALEC for Chinese campaign contributors for possible explanations for his un-American activities.) (Snark alert based on illustrative rhetorical excess illustrating what may happen if progressive forces imitate right-wing McCarthyesque styles of attack).  

Let's wake up and show the world, we Americans can still do world class engineering and industrial projects better than we can play soccer.

Happy Forth of July holiday kogs.

Perhaps, there is no better day to start investigating ALEC and associated politicians for what appears to be a seriously destructive and an anti-American agenda harming our solar, wind, and other renewable alternative energy technologies right at this critical moment, when we are in a fierce economic war to keep as many of those industries, jobs, companies, technologies, and related economic growth in the U.S..

We need to expose the self-serving, and destructive agenda of the ALEC companies who seem determine to undermine American prosperity and take the appropriate actions to let them know Americans will not shop at or support in anyway, any companies trying to undermine American's economic health, prosperity, jobs, military strength and national security.

Any companies on this ALEC list should also be banned from benefiting from tax loopholes, benefits, or other exemptions intended to help the companies that are helping to build America, not harm it, or exploit it for greed at the expense of our common good.  

Please join me contacting your congresspeople, and also Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and Speaker of the House John Boehner to demand a bipartisan joint congressional investigation of any possible ant-American actions or connection of this organization called ALEC.

Also, let's support a bipartisan national economic and industrial policy to keep America strong and prosperous by supporting the most rapid expansion possible of American solar, wind, tidal, and geothermal energy and all of the urgent infrastructure repair and upgrading of our roads, bridges, electrical transmission networks needed to support them and getting our economy running at full steam again.

Let's not sit back and sleep while China pulls ahead with 7% to 10% annual compounded growth rates, while we do nothing, or worse kneecap our critical solar, wind, energy storage and other new American industries vital for our future prosperity.

God bless America and all the countries and peoples of the World.  (cue music)

Happy Forth of July!

Woof! woof! Aaaaaahhhhhhwwwwwwwwooooooooooooo!  

1:15 PM PT: Good Day Sunshine





6:44 PM PT: Duhban raises the valid points that China is now the worst coal polluter on the planet, and I would add getting worse, not better at the moment. I was not trying to whitewash this fact or glorify China as much as shame Americans into waking up and doing something.

By using there tired and jingoistic pro-military argument against them.

China right now is in the midst of an enormous self-created coal based pollution crisis as any of my regular readers know because I've reported it many times here even recently. As soon as i get back from dinner I'll add some links on this.

Another clarification is that I have not changed my opinion that we have vastly too much military spending, and I would be happy to cut it by 50% or more and still feel we would be perfectly safe from a "Soviet" (sic) invasion, since they don't even exist anymore.

I was illustrating how easily we could achieve common ground with pro-military spending Republicans by arguing that investments now in renewable energy that also stimulates our economy means a higher economic growth rate.

One does not need to be a mathematician to realize it does not take many decades of 7% to 10% compounded annual growth of both GDP, and GNP compared to our anemic 2% to 3% before China passes us by and after a few decades can spend more than we can even with the lower fraction of their GDP they currently spend on military.

Key points if you are an intelligent well educated Republican who favors a strong economy and strong defense forging an alliance with the no-nothing Luddite science deniers in the social conservatives is hazardous to our national security and long-term corporate profitability.


Originally posted to HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 12:59 PM PDT.

Also republished by Shamrock American Kossacks, New Jersey Kossacks, Protest Music, Team DFH, Climate Hawks, DK GreenRoots, EcoJustice, And Now for Something Completely Different , Keynesian Kossacks, Kosowatt, The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party, and PostHuffPost: Connection-Conversation-Community .

EMAIL TO A FRIEND X
Your Email has been sent.
You must add at least one tag to this diary before publishing it.

Add keywords that describe this diary. Separate multiple keywords with commas.
Tagging tips - Search For Tags - Browse For Tags

?

More Tagging tips:

A tag is a way to search for this diary. If someone is searching for "Barack Obama," is this a diary they'd be trying to find?

Use a person's full name, without any title. Senator Obama may become President Obama, and Michelle Obama might run for office.

If your diary covers an election or elected official, use election tags, which are generally the state abbreviation followed by the office. CA-01 is the first district House seat. CA-Sen covers both senate races. NY-GOV covers the New York governor's race.

Tags do not compound: that is, "education reform" is a completely different tag from "education". A tag like "reform" alone is probably not meaningful.

Consider if one or more of these tags fits your diary: Civil Rights, Community, Congress, Culture, Economy, Education, Elections, Energy, Environment, Health Care, International, Labor, Law, Media, Meta, National Security, Science, Transportation, or White House. If your diary is specific to a state, consider adding the state (California, Texas, etc). Keep in mind, though, that there are many wonderful and important diaries that don't fit in any of these tags. Don't worry if yours doesn't.

You can add a private note to this diary when hotlisting it:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from your hotlist?
Are you sure you want to remove your recommendation? You can only recommend a diary once, so you will not be able to re-recommend it afterwards.
Rescue this diary, and add a note:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary from Rescue?
Choose where to republish this diary. The diary will be added to the queue for that group. Publish it from the queue to make it appear.

You must be a member of a group to use this feature.

Add a quick update to your diary without changing the diary itself:
Are you sure you want to remove this diary?
(The diary will be removed from the site and returned to your drafts for further editing.)
(The diary will be removed.)
Are you sure you want to save these changes to the published diary?

Comment Preferences

  •  nicely done, HoundDog, (33+ / 0-)

    it will be interesting to see how much resilience is left in our cultural and economic fabric.  Currently most of the economic cheerleading seems to be around the past paradigm of building battleships (here in Maine at Bath Iron Works) and submarines (Electric Boat in CT and RI).  There are probably more examples in history where societies were unable to manage the transition than those that were...I'm not fluent in history but that's my thought.  I like your presentation for pushing ahead for new coalitions that might be the path forward.  Happy 4th!

    In walked the village idiot and his face was all aglow...he's been up all night listening to Mohammed's Radio (Warren Zevon)

    by Wonton Tom on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:14:34 PM PDT

    •  Thanks Wonton. Are you a new reader of my posts? (10+ / 0-)

      You have a cool UID name I probably would have remembered had I seen it before?

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:32:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Beautiful HoundDog (14+ / 0-)

        You did a lot of work composing this diary. It's appreciated. Rec'd, Tipped And Re-published you to groups where I'm a Blog-Editor.

        ☼♥Have A Great Holiday Weekend Everyone♥☼

        In The Spirit Of July 4th, Occupy Everywhere! Especially the internet.
        I Use Splenda Or Other Natural Sweeteners Instead Of Sugar

        Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

        by rebel ga on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:55:34 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Thanks so much rebel ga. I really appreciate your (18+ / 0-)

          support.

          I know this post is about 300% too long and I just reread it looking for major section to cut out.

          But, I felt like I needed to get the full idea out after diddling around with so many pieces of it.

          Now that a see what it is I've been trying to say I can edit the core message down to maybe 20% of this length.

          But, today is the first day in about three weeks, I've haven't been in too much pain to concentrate.

          Three weeks ago I woke up with the right side of my body in agonizing pain, and tremendous fatigue.

          Both five specific spots I have arthritis or maybe fibromyalgia in but also a generalized free floating pain that is scary.

          I've get these in waves every couple of years, and sometimes they last many years.

          Up until a few weeks ago, this has been the most pain free year I can remember in 10 years.  

          Which is one reason I started writing again after sort of slipping off into a depression in Jan. of 2013 after burning out during election year.

          Anyhow, the doctors have done a whole lot of tests this last week, so I was just laying here in bed feeling sorry for myself, and scaring the stew right out of me, looking up all these dreadful diseases I could possibly be expiring from even as we speak.

          Stand aside Woody Allen, because when I start slowly dying a long painful death, I take large steps, and I would not wont any of the lessor hypochrondriacs to get hurt.

          Fibromyalgia, ME/CFS, MS, latent virus infections, like shingles, there are dozens of them..

          I just found on article about how pathogens can crawl up the "vagal nerve" into one's brain where they infect things and cause lots of problems.

          I thought the doctors ought to be testing for viral load, and stuff like that and my main PCP laughed, (she thinks its funny when I try to tell her how to do her job, and i appear to really truly, sincerely believe I may think of medical angles on this that she hasn't, but she humors me.)

          She said, "ok, let's just assume for a moment that you are right, and a previously unknown virus, possibly of alien origin, has crawled up your vagal nerve and is eating your brain and nervous system. (Because, that's exactly what it feels like rebel.) what would you want us to do about it?

          So, I said she could use anti-virals, or retrovirals. She said they don't do that.

          She also said fibromyalgia is what she calls a "garbage can diagnosis," like IBT, after they try looking for everything else it could be, by process elimination they sometimes put names like this on them, but they truly don't know.

          I like her a lot, but her philosophy seems to be "life sucks then you die." Eat less, and exercise more.

          Whatever,  

          So anyway, for the last few weeks, I've been going through my folders or partially written posts, making a few changes and putting them out so people do not forget me.

          Then on this one I suddenly got fired up and couldn't stop writing. It was just like the good ole days, in early June and late May.

          Sorry to go on so much rebel. Somehow I've managed to  let myself fall into the situation where Daily Kos has become my main social group. So thanks for letting me use your shoulder to cry on.

          If things don't get better soon, I may just have too join one of those pootie and woozle groups where it is okay to have long off topic tangents.

          Cheers

          HD
           

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:40:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  HDog - I hope you feel better soon. (12+ / 0-)

            Thanks for a very informative and thoughtful diary.

            "let's talk about that" uid 92953

            by VClib on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:17:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  So Sorry Your Sick HoundDog! (8+ / 0-)

            Sometimes fibromyalgia is a diagnosis when dr's can't pinpoint nerve pain.

            According to a terrible neurologist I had, a person can get hurt years before and not have it show up. Anything can do it, moving furniture, any injury.

            I got hurt in 2000, torn rotators cuff, damage to 4th, 5th, 6th, cervical vertebrae, partially slipped cervical disc.

            After literally years going from dr to different dr and being allergic to every med they gave me. I gave up.

            Just a couple of months ago went to a pain clinic. I still have pain in the arm, but 25mg fentanyl patch helps.

            Didn't even touch my pain years ago. I hope they find out what's wrong soon. It if was viral it would have shown up in your blood tests.

            Make them give you the fentanyl patch. It helps a lot. 25 to 50 mg is not excessive. But you have to be opiate tolerant first. It is strong. Fentanylis the base drug in Oxycontin, oxcodone, vicadin, percoset, etc. Ask you dr about the patch.

            Make sure they give you the plain fentanyl patch. They have brands with ibuprofen, and other over the counter medicines in them too. That kind is no good. That will just make you sick.

            Even 75 percent pain relief is good.

            No Medical Marijuana in your state?

            Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

            by rebel ga on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:00:51 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I don't like opiates. Within two or three days I (4+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              joynow, DonMahoney, rebel ga, slowbutsure

              become so irritable I annoy even myself.

              And, lately marijuana make me so forgetful I feel even stupider than usual. Sometimes I will just totally blank out on some really obvious thing. Like a conversation I just had with someone 20 minutes prior. Partly a consequence of becoming so absorbed in new moments or details.

              Maybe it's an unintended side effect of writing so much with my particularly odd psychology of have an excessive need for approval and also excess concern for avoiding public humiliation.

              But, as I write my mind is now constantly scanning for errors, simulating my mental models of how specific other people might see things, or which groups sensitivities might be triggered. Evaluating possible reactions to whatever I write. All that can go right the window if I get high. And, it is memorialized in print forever.

              Plus I've written over 31,000 comments, and must have had chats with several thousand people here. If I do not remember certain distinctions it can be embarrassing.

              For example, I sued to get several of the famous Joans here mixed up.

              I used to get Horace Loyd Boothrigh III mixed up with poop dog comedy.  Not mixed up but remembering conversations with one as having occurred with the other.

              And this all while being completely sober. (oh, alcohol mostly just makes me tired and is worthless for pain relief.)

              So if I get stoned I sometimes get paranoid, "oh sheesh, do I know this person.

              Plus I get wild ideas that I run with, which could affect my "reputation" which is way weird if you think about.

              I'm one of six fictitious characters in an internet novel my author created to escape from the overly rigid and strict world an expectations he lives in.

              Now I spell check and proof read anonymous blog entries. Do you realize how sick this is?

              Especially environmental posts in case MB read them.

              So, what if I got high and made a dubious remark?

              Last time I got high my significant other, who is a recovering alcoholic so I never drink or doing any illicit drugs around her as moral support.

              But, she was going to be out for the whole evening until way late, so I made a makeshift pipe out of an apple and when out into the garage so no smells would beg in the house. Some of this new stuff is so strong. But when I tried to get back in the house I couldn't because the garage door locked behind me.

              So, I'm am wearing nothing but a pair of shorts and its like 10 degrees outside, so I had to wait 8 hours for Gina to get back.

              So I found a pile of cardboard boxes and got inside and underneath a big pile and imagined all the posts I was going to write when I got back inside.

              I decided I would open up a new account under the name Anon A Mouse,  and give up HoundDog as I'd figured I'd reached a dead end with this character with all of this burdensome imaginary reputation to maintain.

              When I first came here I didn't know multiple accounts were a banable offense so I had four or so different accounts for different characters who would interact in progressive adventures in Cambridge Ma.

              It was going to turn out that we were all genetically modified animals who escaped from one of the MIT biology frats.

              I got this idea from Tom Tomorrow's cartoon strip while high (you see the danger)

              But its been really frustrating to be stick with this one character.

              So my solution was to have Anon A Moose, cousin of Bull Winkle and gradual reveal the story line about how all these characters were related etc. etc.

              And that's what I would have done just for that one evening. I was so excited I figured this was one of the best ideas I've ever had.

              Fortunately, G didn't get home until about 2:00 am so by that time I was too tired to put this plan into motion.

              So you see the reason my new rule is I do not allow myself anywhere near the internet if I get stoned which I hardly ever do anymore because of forgetfulness. I can find myself standing in the kitchen thinking, "why did I come in here?"

              Can you imagine how embarrassing and problematic that could be here?  

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:01:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Ok HoundDog. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                slowbutsure, HoundDog

                The only thing I have left is: When the dr's find out what's wrong, maybe physical therapy can help. I've been going. They put heated pads on my shoulders and neck. The heating pads really help the pain and to untangle the knotted muscles.

                Hoping your pain goes away by itself and doesn't come back!

                ps the fenatyl patch unlike the pills (oxycontin, oxycodone, codeine, vicadin, percoset, etc) doesn't get you stoned. I don't even feel the 25mg dose. No narcotic affect at all. It just helps take the pain away.

                The dr gave me a codeine pill once that made me irritated like that. There was a baby crying all the way-10 aisles across the supermarket and it drove me crazy.

                Usually I smile at baby's. Even crying ones. I'm like, oh someone needs a nap. But this time I had to leave the store.  

                The pills are all horrible. Make one nauseous and sleepy too.
                Some of the duragesic (another name for the fenatyl patch) have those over the counter medications, (ie ibporfin, acetaminophen, etc), in them too. That kind made me totally nauseous, slept 20 hrs a day and  gave me clinical depression. But my new dr gives me the plain fenatyl only patch and I'm doing really good on it.

                The partially slipped disc went back into place about 5 years ago and that helps a lot. I never had surgery for the torn rotators cuff so that still hurts. Then years of inactivity took it's toll.

                So now I'm determined to get out there and get better! I'm only 64 and I refuse to give up. I have never given up and refuse to now!

                Brought To You By That Crazed Sociologist/Media Fanatic rebel ga Be The Change You Want To See In The World! Gandhi

                by rebel ga on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 11:57:38 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks rebel. I'll check out this fenatyl patch, (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  rebel ga

                  which sounds better than I thought, the way you describe it and I very much appreciate the advice.

                  I hope I didn't sound unappreciative rebel.

                  For some reason I thought it was just time release transdermal opiates, which scares me about becoming an addict, or dulling my mind.

                  I'm barley hanging on here sometimes as it is. We have so many really smart, and expert folks here that my tendency to post on a wide variety of complicated, controversial topics means I'm often "dancing on the edge of many cliffs."

                  So I must be super attentive to exactly where the dangerous edges, and slippery slopes are.

                  You bring up another issue about sleeping 20 hours a day. Prolonged pain an have this affect on me as well, as sleeping is sometimes the only escape that works.

                  My own productivity has fallen to 30% or less this last two weeks.

                  So I appreciate any and all suggestions. I'm only 57 so way too young to be "retired." I'm planing on being a thorn in the side of the Republicans well into my 90s or more.

                  Maybe with stem cells 100 plus  And, if the radical right keeps on being this destructive to our nation and planet we very well may have to clone ourselves, rebel, so we can keep this up for another 200 years - because I do not see enough young people picking up the torches fast enough to keep up with the challenges.

                  :-)

                  Thanks  a lot, and hang in there.

                  Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

                  by HoundDog on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:44:02 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

          •  Best wishes to you as you work to overcome... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            slowbutsure

            ...the sneaky commando virus(es?) and/or Fibromyalgia/ME/CFS, MS, etc, etc...

            I was diagnosed with (the "garbage" dx. of) fibromyalgia, by a wonderful rheumatologist--after seven long years of my PCP futilely trying to determine what was going on.  

            My rheumatologist would beg to differ with your PCP, BTW. She did a work-up to rule out other possible diagnoses, but her first diagnosis--which she made five minutes after meeting me and sending me to the ceiling by poking what she later told me were my trigger points.

            Just knowing what was causing the pain was a relief. Yoga--the gentle Hatha type, which I take at the local senior center (people of all ages attend) has helped a lot.  A good massage therapist has been a great help too.  Retirement and actually getting 7-8 hours of sleep a night has worked wonders.  I only take occasional pain meds at this point.  

            Hoping you can get some relief for the "feeling crummies" soon.

      •  I really hope solar energy becomes ubiquitous (10+ / 0-)

        in the US. BUT do you have any idea what a 52 year old utility worker could do after he loses his job :-) ?

        •  BE SMART AND GET TRAINING (10+ / 0-)

          now to enter the solar power market. We saw automation coming and did nothing but fight the trend rather than retraining for the inevitable.

          •  Um, I don't think they would hire a 52 year old. (7+ / 0-)

            At least the chances would not be as good as someone younger. A sizable portion of our long-term unemployed are people that age. Heck, if you are over 45 your chances aren't so great.

            The politicians may be bought, and the system corrupt, but it is our duty to fix these things.

            by sebastianguy99 on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:56:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You are wrong about this (9+ / 0-)

              Solar techs are one of the professions where demand clearly exceeds supply and also where ageism,sexism ,and other discriminatory practices that are prevalent in many other construction trades is rare.

              'The tyranny of the ignoramuses is absolute and inescapable' A..Einstein

              by unfangus on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:21:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Hey, try being a former corporate strategist, (15+ / 0-)

              facilitator, whose biggest client include several of the largest oil and auto companies in the world,

              At some point soon, I'm going to have to return to working as my savings are running low.

              How would you like the opening line of your sales pitch to be, "oh, you know all those things I said about oil companies, and ALEC? I was just kidding around. And, anyway, I am not the HoundDog, I don't know anyone named the HoundDog, and I've never even heard of "that site, what did you call it, The Daily Cost?"  Is that like a shopping club or something?

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:30:31 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  appeal to work for Musk (4+ / 0-)

                and I'm only half joking

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 09:33:35 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'd love to work for him. I think we'd get along (5+ / 0-)

                  great.

                  I keep wishing one of these progressive billionaires would see my potential and fund a think tank for advocating progressive causes, like sustainable living and sustainable energy.

                  Then instead of just being HoundDog, I could be HoundDog, Director of the Institute for Sustainable Energy Production, or progressive causes.

                  It would be like in the Wizard of Oz when the Scarecrow gets a Certificate.

                  Then I could write posts like all those people do on the left hand column of Huff Po.

                  Then I could spiff up some of the same posts I'm doing here but have an audience of millions of people who don't read here where we are pretty much preaching to the choir.

                  Like what if I boiled this post down to 6 to 9 paragraphs, and published it as President HoundDog of the K9 Foundation for American Progress?

                  Can you imagine how impressive that might be?

                  And then I could do little tricks, like saying, responding to a comment, "why that reminds me I was just in a discussion with several reknown thought-leaders at Kosowatt where one famous wit duhban  ... "accused me of whitewashing the Chinese pollution scandal."

                  LOL sorry duhbah, that one was just too easy and just sitting there waiting to pliucked

                  Obviously, we'd have to put one of your more brilliant comments than that unfortunate tangent.

                  Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

                  by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:18:11 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  You won't lose your job because of solar power if (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              slowbutsure

              that is what you mean. People won't all suddenly switch over and go off the grid. Government won't suddenly get it together to educate and help finance purchasing and installing the solar panels and most people will stay with what they have for quite some time.
              The stimulus included some rebate for the purchase but not the installation here. So much for the less well off
              The education and help are probably best done at a more local level anyway
              (Maybe you could look into getting that going in your spare time!)

            •  Traditionaly not in sunrise sectors (0+ / 0-)

              .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

              by Roger Fox on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:15:10 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I believe you're right (0+ / 0-)

              Which was the reason for my earlier comment. It's easy to throw out these platitudes about "training" and "keeping your skills updated". But once you get to a certain age-you ain't gettin hired I don't give a shit what the "experts" say.

        •  As a 62 year old (14+ / 0-)

          former IBEW aerial telecommunications lineman about to get my NABCEF solar installation certification,uh yep.
          Of course I've had lots of practice re-inventing myself,but you should have a lot of skills that are easily transferable to a new green energy economy,so don't despair-get after it!

          'The tyranny of the ignoramuses is absolute and inescapable' A..Einstein

          by unfangus on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:15:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  work on solar system install and maintenance. (6+ / 0-)

          the power is still needed, and we need a million
          workers who can be comfortable on a roof, in the sun
          and debug a panel system.

    •  China vs US (13+ / 0-)

      While it is true that Chinese companies have driven down the cost of solar panels, driving several American companies out of business, it is also true that a large percentage of Chinese solar panels have been installed here while China still chokes on coal dust.

      Recently, an Elon Musk company, SolarCity, bought a Chinese solar panel maker, Silevo, and plans on building a new gigawatt factory, in New York, using their technology.

      Another American company, GT Advanced Technology, has invented a process (HiCz) for making monocrystaline solar panels which are more efficient and cheaper, which will probably be the wave of the future.

      No matter how cynical you become, you can never keep up.--Lily Tomlin

      by MadScientist on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:23:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  These are all encouraging developments. I wrote (6+ / 0-)

        several articles about the SolarCity Silveo purchase. Thanks for commenting.

        Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

        by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 05:52:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Chinese bureaucrat was once quoted as.. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        duhban

        ....saying that China prefers that its solar panels be installed in the USA, where taxpayers subsidize their operating costs via feed-in tariffs.

        China wins both ways.

        (i) Its companies stole engineering designs from GE and other Western companies, enabling national companies to take market share (and rents) from US and European concerns.

        (ii) Working and middle-class Americans pay higher energy prices (b/c of the subsidies) than they would otherwise, negatively impacting the competitive position of the US.

        Bureaucrat was quoted in a NYT piece, about three years ago.  Linked to it at the time.

        Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

        by PatriciaVa on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 07:48:03 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  and in a moment of sublime synchronicity, (17+ / 0-)

    I sit here reading and responding to your diary because across my street a tree lies on the electric utility power lines.  This from the rain and wind of hurricane Arthur that passed through yesterday.

    "You would not think to look at him but he was famous long ago, for playing the electric violin on Desolation Row." (Bob Dylan)

    by Wonton Tom on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:25:02 PM PDT

    •  Ah, yes, Synchronicity. A cool word. I learned in (15+ / 0-)

      a Kurt Vonnegut book as a teenager, was it Breakfast of Champions?

      That summer, I was 16 or so  my girlfriend and I discovered sex, drugs, rock-n-roll, and Kurt Vonnegut - it was either 71 or 72 I can't remember the numbers but I remember every day of that summer.

      I read every single Kurt Vonnegut book in between hours of endless sex and other good ole fashion "teenagers-growing-up" adventures.  

      When I finished the last Vonnegut book in the local library, I walked out my girlfriends house, towards the end of the summer, to go home which was about two miles away.

      Suddenly, an overwhelming wave of sadness descended upon my as I realized that Vonnegut was the last science fiction author I had not already read all of their books in the library.

      "Oh damn, now what am I going to do?"

      The Beatles had broken up, Jimi Hendrix had died. No more new albums from them. My girlfriend and had already tried all the romance, sex stuff we could think of.

      What was I going to do for the rest of my life?

      Little did I suspect that I would soon be learning the secret pleasures of "celibacy, sobriety, spiritual chanting, and Issac Asimov's Foundation Trilogy and life would seem worth living again. Asimov had written a lot of other books that would keep me busy for a while.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:51:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  sounds like (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alwaysquestion, HoundDog, hbk, slowbutsure

        you got a great start in life...Vonnegut was one of my favorites even if I did not capture a fraction of his prescient genius as a young reader.  He was that good of a storyteller.

        "You would not think to look at him but he was famous long ago, for playing the electric violin on Desolation Row." (Bob Dylan)

        by Wonton Tom on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:49:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I don't know how much captured. I should probably (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          hbk, ozsea1, DonMahoney, slowbutsure

          reread some of them.

          Which one was it about that hot young spy/mercenary women who had a secret pouch in her navel where she could hide microfiche and things going through customs?

          There was also a really cool description of a house with a secret passage to and underground cave, which one could only access by diving into this pool in a fountain, in case the cops, or someone was coming into the house to get you.

          In this secret room/cave was a lye pit where one could dissolve organic waste, or even bodies.

          And, enough food and water hide indefinitely. And and escape passage that let out to something that looked like a drainage sluice.

          I've wanted such a set up every since. In case the NSA or the Koch, or Chris Christie's gang came after me, I could sneak down to my secret Bat Cave, which would have internet, and TOR of course, and keep publishing DKos posts forever!

          Bwa, ha, ha, ha, haaaaa!

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:01:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  and the last moon landing that year (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, hbk, Roger Fox

        we weren't going back again for a long time.

  •  Look How Going to the Moon When China Did Not, (14+ / 0-)

    crippled our economy of the 1970's.

    We don't dare risk that again by taking another flier, on this so-called solar "energy."

    --what??

    We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

    by Gooserock on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:29:22 PM PDT

    •  Gooserock! You'd better be snarking! Hey, how (10+ / 0-)

      come I have to put snark tags on all my jokes, even the most obvious, and you don't?  

      This hardly seems fair! Where's the snark police when we need them?

      About 8 years ago I did on Onion like  spoof of Bush making chimp faces amuse delegates to a Latin American conference of President of the Americas. I had found this funny photo array of Bush side by side with a Chimpanzee making the same facial expressions.

      And I ran it like it was a real article with a dateline from Rio de Janero.

      Some remote Chinese newspaper thought it was a real news item and wrote a real article based on mine reporting this as facts.

      So in my mind this was the funniest thing I had ever written to that point, and the fact that Bush was such a flake that the Chinese actual believed my article was real was like a double comic bonus.

      But instead of getting some special award like "Funniest New Writer at Daily Kos," a lot of people got all huffy about it like, "if I  wasn't  more responsible in labeling" my snark, I might single handed bring down not only the reputation of Daily Kos, but impugn the credibility of modern "journalism" or "blogging."  

      Sheesh, how is one supposed to write satire when things like this can happen for real? (Sarcastic quip alert)    

      So I promised someone I'd be a good dog and label on my snarks.

      Yet, here you run around like a wild man snarking all you like without proper labels?

      Where do I file a grievance?  

      You know, I'm going to be really cheesed of if it turns out that whoever it was that busted my chops wasn't really an official Daily Kos Snark Police, but just some self-appointed vigilante like Mitt Romney who used to like to dress up like a police officer and pull people over to give them warnings.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:10:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think you should link to that diary, if you can. (5+ / 0-)

        8 years of posts is more than my Scooby-Doo-brain can handle.

        ...Son, those Elephants always look out for themselves. If you happen to get a crumb or two from their policies, it's a complete coincidence. -Malharden's Dad

        by slowbutsure on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:30:05 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll put it back together and put it here in the (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          alwaysquestion, slowbutsure

          comments. Something happened to the Chimp photos which was on an old MIT database which must have dissappearred because it no longer shows up in the post.

          But, I still have a copy of it, although I do not think it fits in the comment box. Let me check.

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:45:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  You don't have to (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, PrahaPartizan, slowbutsure

        Put snark tags in your jokes. Many of us don't.

        You just need to get used to writing "uhhhh. That was a joke..." for the irony impaired.

        © grover


        So if you get hit by a bus tonight, would you be satisfied with how you spent today, your last day on earth? Live like tomorrow is never guaranteed, because it's not. -- Me.

        by grover on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 07:18:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm so shaken up by the idea of getting hit by a (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          slowbutsure

          bus later tonight I can't even think of anything witty to say.

          Will you accept "bus pass" for the moment?

          I'll try to come back and "pick up" the conversation later.

          But, i need to get off a the next stop to close up the house for the night.

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:25:31 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  California passed legislation that allows the (21+ / 0-)

    utilities to charge us $10 a month for the use of their transmission lines. The last three months my electric bill has been in negative numbers: -$90, -$67, and -$32 due to my rooftop solar array. Although the utilities are required by law to purchase so much energy from renewable sources, and they purchase the excess of what my panels provide, they can now charge me for their compliance with the law's requirements. Even though there are months when I have to purchase power from them.

    The bill went through the legislature without a lot of fanfare and was signed by a Democratic governor.

    Oh oh, I hope THAT doesn't end up in someone's sig line! :) - kos

    by Susan Grigsby on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:33:13 PM PDT

    •  Just a question, didn't the people of that state (10+ / 0-)

      of CA pay for those transmission lines to be built?  I believe so.  

    •  Yes, ALEC is backing those kinds of bills in (10+ / 0-)

      nearly all 50 states as far as I can see.

      Charging a net metering fee of anywhere from $4.50 to $15.00 a month is one strat.

      Also, having a "minimum monthly bill" so no matter what you have to send them so much a month.

      Also, I believe Rocky Mountain Power, owned by Warren Buffet's group is trying to reduce the amount they have to pay for solar generated power from third party suppliers. But, I may be thinking of Texas.

      The current PURPA makes them buy external power if it is cheaper than internal so there is a big burst of solar and wind projects coming online.

      Also, many places are trying to eliminate state tax incentives for solar and wind,

      Plus several utilities have proposed a 5% cap of the total amount of power they have to accept through net metering.

      It's a shame, and ALEC is involved with a bunch of these efforts, and my understanding is they also have connections to the Koch brothers.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:54:41 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Cheer up, things could be worse, and they will be (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        CitizenOfEarth

        There is a long and sordid history of utility subversion of PURPA which we ignore at our peril.  Look for example, at the disposition of stranded costs in nuclear facilities, and the contracts utilities were forced to enter into to replace the power they planned to get from those sources.  Those stranded costs have been assumed by the states around the Northeast, and the contracts abrogated (see CMP's record for a particularly egregious example).

        The reality is that utility lobbyists, often passing through the revolving doors of state governments while they do so, work year after year with their legislatures, while the public interest is focused elsewhere.  Expect a repeat performance - these utilities have lots of practice and very good teams in place.  Power supply pricing is likely to get worse from a ratepayer and taxpayer perspective before it gets better.

    •  Susan - eventually everyone who is on the grid (10+ / 0-)

      will have to pay a monthly cash fee to stay connected everywhere in the US. In addition, the utility will stop buying your excess power at any price, it's a pain to manage and they don't want it. This is the pattern we see in those European countries that are much farther down the adoption curve of rooftop solar than the US. The utilities have been guaranteed a rate of return, which requires a certain level of revenues. Utilities don't make any profit on people who use low amounts of energy and solar is most compelling for people with high power bills. Those households with high bills represent the most profitable utility customers, and they are installing solar. Eventually, the utilities may be left with people in multifamily dwellings, the poor who can't afford or qualify for solar, or homes in areas with little direct sun paying for the entire grid and that can't happen. So everyone connected to the grid is going to have to make a monthly contribution.  

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:06:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yeah, I have heard that that is the next step, so (11+ / 0-)

        I have been looking into the newer technology for conversion and storage with the thought of eventually getting off the grid entirely. (If I live long enough for it to matter to me.) I don't mind supporting the infrastructure, I feel that I should and would be willing to do so through taxes. But if I can't maintain an annual balance with the power company then getting off is my only option. The electricity rates out here are the highest in the state.

        I live in the desert, the perfect place for solar energy, and since I have no access to natural gas, my home is all electric. It is hot in the summer - which is why, until a hundred years ago, no one lived out here year round. I shouldn't be living here, I know, but I do love it.

        Oh oh, I hope THAT doesn't end up in someone's sig line! :) - kos

        by Susan Grigsby on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 05:07:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  or defection (6+ / 0-)

        The ones who can afford it will defect, which means
        the grid will be on the backs of the poor or
        the poorly sited.

        Let's say the top 25% all defect, getting Big Arrays,
        Storage batteries and chevy volts. so they can go V2H.

        Let's say the folks with southern exposures all defect

        that could easily be 30-50% of the market.

        it's likely the grid will have to become a public good.
        where the city charges a front footage and the Power department comes around and maintains the grid

        much like the water department

        •  Out of the shadows (0+ / 0-)

          Taxpayers instead of ratepayers is clearly where electric utilities will be getting their money.  The question for those currently relying on private utilities should be whether those utilities will be allowed to still operate a private businesses.  What will be the rationale for a private enterprise that is both obsolete and government funded?  Utilities have been winning these arguments in the legislative back rooms, where they actually take place.  If the public interest is to be served, though, that has to change - starting with getting the decisions out of the shadows.  

          •  If they move to direct taxpayer support (0+ / 0-)

            they will really have to become a "Public Good".

            You have things like Toll Roads where the Treasury
            is on the stick if it goes south but the direct user tolls
            pay the smash.

            But it's going to be much more problematic to give
            grid fees to dividend granting companies.

            Personally i think the Utiltiies will need to move into
            Grid brokering. Stop selling Power and start brokering
            power.

            If EVERYONE has an EV car, then the Utility will need to
            install L-2 Chargers EVERYWHERE and L-3 chargers across
            the region.  Then the Utility can have a biz model where
            they charge you to move power from your house to
            your car, and sell you voltage support, Frequency and Timing and charge you to move amps either way, plus sell you
            Access to L-2 chargers and L-3 chargers.

            Plus no reason why a utility can't lease you a solar array,

            but it's going to be a big change.

            Mostly meaning the Utility needs to go all 1952 phone company. Own a lot more stuff, cross beyond the demarc
            invest a lot more and become a lot more patriarchal and
            paternal,  and invest like mad for 10 years.

            But if they invest for 10 years, they will have a business for 100.

      •  Just as those driving electric vehicles... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        bear83, salmo

        will at some point have to start paying some pretty hefty highway use taxes. Somebody always has to pay for the infrastructure.

  •  Doing my part - as my solar panels are pulling (18+ / 0-)

    2.7 kWh's right now.  This is looking like the best day for us in July at this point.  And just now I hit 2300 kWh's for the year!

    •  Great, good for you Bmeis. Thanks for leading (5+ / 0-)

      the way forward.

      Have you thought about posting your experience? I'm sure there would be lots of interest, and I would put it in Kosowatt.

      If not maybe I can interview you about it?

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:57:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This good news can't come true (16+ / 0-)

    and be put into action fast enough.

    We've got to stop relying on carbon-based electricity asap.

    Fast deployment of solar can help make a nice dent in our carbon emissions. We really need to be the world leader on this, but others are leading right now.

    Time to catch up and jump ahead.

    "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

    by YucatanMan on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:39:42 PM PDT

  •  Meh, none of this commie electricity for me (7+ / 0-)

    I intend to get my electricity the American way, the way George Washington Jesus intended, from dirty fossil fuels that make trains blow up.

    What's wrong with you people? Why do you hate America, commies!

    "Reagan's dead, and he was a lousy president" -- Keith Olbermann 4/22/09

    by kovie on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:40:53 PM PDT

    •  Well, I burned some cherry wood yesterday (5+ / 0-)

      in my smoker cooking burgers and brats for the party we hosted.  The wood hadn't fossilized - I didn't have 6000 years to wait for that, but I did combine it with mesquite pellets, so there's that.

      My solar array produced energy yesterday to offset it, and I have three cherry trees now (very small, but still...).  Even though it's not technically correct, I sincerely believe (so that's good enough) that the air flowing over my house is being scrubbed by carbon as it passes over the solar array.  It has that effect, even though it's the lessening of the need for coal burning that keeps the air cleaner.

      •  Cool. I may have to drive around randomly until I (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        alwaysquestion, duhban, salmo

        find a fire department BBQ or something.  You got me hungering now.

        I've been eating so much health food my ears are starting to look like a rabbits.

        The only thing I've eaten all day was a little bit of sushi and watermelon slices.

        I'm not even sure brats, Keilbhasi, sausages are legal anymore in Massachusetts.

        I may have to drive up to New Hampshire.

        Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

        by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:03:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Ah, ha! Another no label snarkster. Do you'll (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kovie, RMForbes, alwaysquestion, duhban

      run in packs? I already had a stern word with Gooserock!

      lol

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:59:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Too Devoted to Recovering "Stranded Costs" (15+ / 0-)

    When you let the economy and industry get hijacked by the bankers and accountants, everything gets driven toward recovering those proverbial "stranded costs."  When you've got the money to buy a government which can force the rest of society to pay up, what other road are you going to take?  The entire electrical power game has become a con for the accountants to play three-card monte with their assets in order to bamboozle the regulators into getting their "customers" (or "marks" as they might be better characterized) to pay multiple times for the same asset.  It would be risible if it weren't so criminal.

    "Love the Truth, defend the Truth, speak the Truth, and hear the Truth" - Jan Hus, d.1415 CE

    by PrahaPartizan on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:41:41 PM PDT

  •  I wonder how hard the push to residential (9+ / 0-)

    off-the-grid will be in the various regions of the nation?

    Power here, in the Pacific Northwest, provided mainly from hydroelectric dams owned and operated by the Bonneville Power Administration, is relatively inexpensive compared to many other areas of the nation:

    There is a terrific site which displays this data, the EIA or US Energy Information Administration. By their data, my state has the nation's lowest electrical costs at 8.75 cents a kilowatt hour. Some states are almost 20 cents a kilowatt hour!

    So, how do you think that local energy prices combined with overall weather patterns of the area will effect this transition to a less centralized system of electrical energy transmission and/or storage?


    "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

    by Angie in WA State on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:52:57 PM PDT

    •  Utilities are guaranteed a threshold ROE. The.. (0+ / 0-)

      .more SolarHouseholds, the higher the energy tax burden on the working and middle-class, who for whatever reasons can't disconnect from the grid.

      Basic economics.

      Do we want  to live in a country where the working poor pay a blended 25 cents a kilowatt hour while the most affluent pay a fraction of that?

      Learn about Centrist Economics, learn about Robert Rubin's Hamilton Project. www.hamiltonproject.org

      by PatriciaVa on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 07:39:54 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Guess we should start with the question of (5+ / 0-)

        whether or not public utilities should be allowed to be owned by For-Profit corporations.

        Where I live in WA State has the lowest kilowatt hour pricing on power. Where I live also has a Public Utility District, where the power company is owned by the county residents and is a non-profit entity with reasonably paid, but not excessively compensated, management.

        I believe that this factor must be discussed before other issues, as it drives the question of how much power costs.


        "I like paying taxes...with them, I buy Civilization"

        by Angie in WA State on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 09:07:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Great work, Hounddog! (8+ / 0-)

    Hubby and I are working out our disagreements on how to move forward on solar.  He wants to wait until we build a new house.  I want to outfit this house and one day sell with the incentive of solar to new owners.  He says the cost isn't worth it on existing house as we will have paid a bill that will not have paid back in time here. I argue we still haven't bought land for the new house in the last three years looking given the fracking issue along with a few others, so if not solar now, when?

    We already switched our entire house to LED bulbs and halved our electricity bills; down to $50/month at the high end.  We could potentially be making money from selling electricity to pay off solar panel loan, if we go that route.  He wants to preserve cash; I concur.

    I surmise ALEC will switch to solar cheerleading when they own all the solar panel companies.  They will diversify like the tobacco industry diversified.

    1. What does it mean? 2. And then what?

    by alwaysquestion on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 01:54:05 PM PDT

  •  And if they included the "externalities" of... (8+ / 0-)

    ...the fossil fuel energy that goes into grid electricity, it would be cheaper now.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/...

    Air pollution from burning fossil fuels causes damages to crops, (historic) buildings and public health. The most extensive and integrated effort to quantify and monetise these impacts was in the European ExternE project series.[5][6]
    Anthropogenic climate change is attributed to greenhouse gas emissions from burning oil, gas, and coal. The Stern Review on the Economics Of Climate Change says "Climate change presents a unique challenge for economics: it is the greatest example of market failure we have ever seen."[7]

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action.

    by Shockwave on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:16:20 PM PDT

    •  indeed, speaking of stranded costs' (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Shockwave, ozsea1

      the costs of fossil fuels energy sources is going way up..wars for one, famines and all the rest and climate chaos takes a bigger and bigger part and we try as a society a manged disaster.

      This machine kills Fascists.

      by KenBee on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:18:40 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  microgrids dog (7+ / 0-)

    Musk's battery efforts, many others, articles and references here and there, it's way past time then to cash in on microgrids as an investor (I kid, I have no clue what the VC's are up to)
      Cheap storage is an answer for many power problems, battery solutions are coming and will change Everything.

    It's apparent that there is a massive investment underway in anticipation of 'people' owning their own microgrids as the PUC's have been captured by investors in old school projects, not captured by logic and what's best.
    The PUC's are in the way at this point with their crappy payback schemes for solar and probably wind power as well, altho that tends to be bigger money, so more leveraged and a better deal than smaller solar projects.

    someone here recently explained again the solar net metering again, it was really good and touched on the logic of microgrids without naming them as such.

    add a tag: Microgrids  ...you'll need it soon enough.

    google 'Microgrids' there's at least one recent article I was hogging and going to write about but...life.
    computer crash/goneburgers.

    You should do it dog, I know you want to :>, you have been all around it, so dive in.

    With microgrids, those 'people' what can afford them will tell the power companies to hop it. ...which is ok with them since the power companies are loath to invest in anything grid wise despite the talk.

    This machine kills Fascists.

    by KenBee on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 02:16:37 PM PDT

    •  Neighborhood coops (6+ / 0-)

      As storage technology advances, I think neighborhood coops will be the way forward - as you say, microgrids.

      •  and surely gated communities will be the first (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, RMForbes, alwaysquestion

        adopters..as the waters rise and the hordes go hungry will be the implied in the sales pitch :>

        whatever works, but there are energy coops that people can buy into and have been for awhile..whether they are scams is another question I suppose.

        A municipal/public energy coop...hmmm, maybe a good idea, allowing us greens to invest  and improve our community and maybe save the monthly bills as well. It could be as simple as the muni selling shares in a publicly funded and publicly owned company that owns to start with one parking structure solar cover. Add, rinse, repeat.

        The county here has installed several such here and there, I wonder what and how complicated the mechanisms would be to sell shares to the public?

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:58:11 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Inexpensive energy storage and power management (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, KenBee, HoundDog, ozsea1

      are very hot topics in the Silicon Valley investment community. I see multiple financing requests for startups in these areas every week.  

      "let's talk about that" uid 92953

      by VClib on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:14:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can unerstand Utilities wanting to charge (8+ / 0-)

    a modest fee to supply 60 cycle alternating current to your door so your solar array can match that alternating current cycle for cycle.  But the utility is missing the boat for not wanting to write a service contract and provide maintenance for that array.  Utilities should be in the van for providing that service.  It's where the money is for them.  

    •  In fact, I believe that utilities should be (13+ / 0-)

      providing residential arrays, owning them, maintaining them, and charging the owners of the homes where the arrays are installed for the electricity!

      Not all homeowners would want to lease their arrays from the utilities; some would want to own and maintain their own. But most homes will probably be grid-dependent for a long time to come, and there's no reason why the utilities shouldn't be providing grid connection and point-of-use generation as part of their package of available services.

      Duke Energy had begun its "Distributed Solar Generation Program" that did just that. However, it was a pilot project, very limited in scope, and they aren't bringing any more new customers on board. I think they're crazy for not expanding the program. At billions apiece for new centralized generation facilities, not to mention massive transmission losses, I can't imagine why the utilities aren't looking for any alternative to building new generation and expanded transmission. Distributed generation is going to be the strategy of successful utilities going forward.

      "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

      by blue in NC on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 03:04:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Indeed, well said. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        blue in NC, PrahaPartizan

        but their investors would feel abandoned, and until they can take over and own the sun, they will resist.

        This machine kills Fascists.

        by KenBee on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:21:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  That's an interesting link to Duke's program... (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog, bear83, blue in NC

        Written by a marketing type as it has some errors such as their buying megawatts instead of megawatt-hours. In the FAQ:

        Yes, the solar program requires the property owner or landlord to sign a 25-year lease.
        That's a deal killer for many home owners. What happens when you have to move? Always read the fine print with these rascals.

        ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

        by Notreadytobenice on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:37:48 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Of course, this program is not the same as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Notreadytobenice

          the long-term distributed-generation scenario I'm rooting for. For example, for this program, Duke pays the homeowner to lease space for the PV equipment. In general, that shouldn't be a very big problem when selling the residence.

          In the future, I can't envision the utilities paying to lease space for the equipment; in fact, the real deal-killer would be if the utilities decided to charge prohibitive amounts to lease the equipment to the customer (like the outrageous "lease" charge cable companies charge for their "box").

          Part of the problem with that writeup is that it was written several years ago and is obsolete; for example, from the FAQ (emphasis mine):

          Q: Will solar PV systems replace nuclear and coal plants?

          A: Solar PV is a cyclical resource, meaning that it only produces energy when the sun is shining. Cyclical resources cannot replace baseload generation, like coal and nuclear, which operate around the clock. Storage of energy (with batteries or other storage technologies) from cyclical resources does lessen this effect, but adds significant cost. Right now, nuclear and fossil-fueled generation is relatively inexpensive compared with the cost of solar energy.

          But as this diary itself points out, the cost of solar energy is dropping so fast that it will soon be cheaper than fossil-fueled generation.

          The small program, in spite of "downsides" like the 25-year lease, was extremely popular:

          Q: Who can participate in Duke Energy’s solar program?

          A: Due to exceptionally high interest in the program, we’ve reached our limit for applicants.

          I didn't notice the confusion between megawatts and megawatt-hours; all I noticed with the use of the term "megawatts" was the amount of solar generating capacity they were bringing on line, which was correctly expressed in megawatts.

          I certainly agree, though, that "these rascals" are not to be trusted - ever - and must always be watched like hawks. Hence ALEC's obsession with state legislation eliminating regulation and oversight of corporations, including utilities.

          "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

          by blue in NC on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 04:42:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  an important point gets missed (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Notreadytobenice
            Right now, nuclear and fossil-fueled generation is relatively inexpensive compared with the cost of solar energy.
            They need to specify whether they are talking about existing coal- and nuclear- powered generation, or whether they are talking about new construction.

            Quite frankly the $/kW cost for new construction has skyrocketed for both coal and nuclear. The latest coal-fired power plant to come online (Prairie State Generating Station) is so far over budget, that the municipalities and rural coops that were scammed into investing in this project will be carrying the expensive burden for decades.

            And pretty much all of the recent plans for new nuclear construction in the U.S. have been shelved.

            When it comes to traditional "baseload" generation, natural gas powered combined cycle combustion turbines are now the default.

            •  Massachusetts utility regulators ordered coal... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              freshwater dan, blue in NC

              power plants to shut down or convert to natural gas over ten years ago. New pipelines were brought in from Canada and Texas (I think). The DPU was harshly criticized by the utilities and the CofCommerce warning the price of electricity would skyrocket.

              Just as most of the plants converted to gas (which took years and 100's of millions of dollars), the price of natural gas dropped like a rock. So did the cost of electricity.

              Nobody said thank you to the DPU. :-)

              ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

              by Notreadytobenice on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 05:28:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Unfortunately, it is my opinion that the rush (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Notreadytobenice

                to convert to natural gas is a bad thing. As NG consumption ramps up and conventional reserves get "tapped out", the push for deep well fracking will get stronger and stronger.

                I believe that such fracking may prove to be one of the absolute worst extraction disasters ever, and getting the consumers (and the utilities who will need to amortize 50-year-lifespan plants) addicted to natural gas will be a jump out of the frying pan right into the fire. :-(

                "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

                by blue in NC on Mon Jul 07, 2014 at 05:56:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Right, new solar is 10 cents per KWH (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Notreadytobenice, blue in NC

            and an old nuke is 11 cents per KWH LCOE. New nukes will probably come in at 15-18 cents per KWH.

            Wind is 3.3 to 6.5 cents per KWH for new construction.

            LCOE is levelized cost of energy, figured over 20 years.

            .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

            by Roger Fox on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 01:45:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Here in MA wind turbines can't be built. Some... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blue in NC

              have to shut down during certain times of the day due to neighbor complaints about noise. One company has been trying to build a bunch of them 10 miles of the coast of cape.

              The oligarchs (including the Kennedy family) have been resisting with all the money and power they have to muster.

              Walter Cronkite too and then he changed his mind just before he died and became a big supporter.  He's resting easier because of that decision.

              ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

              by Notreadytobenice on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 05:38:37 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The Cape Wind site is far from ideal (0+ / 0-)

                I believe in the US the first generation of offshore wind needs to be out of sight, they need to be good neighbors, if you will.

                Projects like the Atlantic Wind Connection, 360 miles long from NJ to Virginia Beach, 10 to 20 miles offshore, 1700 4mw turbines are the way too go.

                Too many people of my generation or older (Donald Trump) dont see wind turbines as awesome things of beauty. Until these nay sayers die off, things wont change.

                .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

                by Roger Fox on Tue Jul 08, 2014 at 10:50:25 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Fannie was being a PIA on solar cells... (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            blue in NC

            couple of years ago. Any roadblocks in obtaining home financing for a buyer can be a deal killer for homeowners.

            Here in Boston, the city wanted to provide assistance to those homeowners that wanted to install their own solar panels. The cost would be repaid through a betterment charge the way a sewer line project going down your street is funded. Such charges are passed through to the new homeowners.

            Fannie Mae was holding the program up. Don't know if Boston was able to overcome this barrier.

            ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

            by Notreadytobenice on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 05:22:32 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Since the Duke lease involved payments TO (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Notreadytobenice

              the homeowner, I can't imagine that being a problem with Fannie.

              And the contract calls for Duke to be responsible for all maintenance - even repairs to the home if damage is caused or exacerbated by the utility's equipment - so any future homeowner would be protected from liability.

              Of course, with Fannie, you never know...

              "Bernie Madoff's mistake was stealing from the rich. If he'd stolen from the poor he'd have a cabinet position." -OPOL

              by blue in NC on Mon Jul 07, 2014 at 05:59:44 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly! (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HoundDog, alwaysquestion, duhban

      Exactly!

  •  A modest fee is fair. The utilities have to sta... (6+ / 0-)

    A modest fee is fair. The utilities have to start thinking outside the box. I would also say that there are still storage issues to solve but distributed solar is helping to spur innovation in that regard.

  •  Great Diary! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog, alwaysquestion, duhban

    Thanks, HoundDog. Minor quibble -- Elon Musk is the Chairman of SolarCity. (I've noticed here and in other comments you refer to him as Eton Musk running First Solar, which is incorrect).

    •  You are right on both counts jdn74. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      alwaysquestion, duhban, jdn74

      I lost my reading glasses a while back but can just about see well enough to read it I put the computer about 30 inches from my eyes.

      so I just learned about this fellow a few months ago, and for the first dozen articles I read about him I thought it was Eton, no Elon because, I can not see well enough to tell the difference between the small t and l.

      So part of my brain insists that is Eton not Elon. To me Eton is better, more macho sounding, and futuristic. Commanding!

      Elon sounds like some suspiciously low calories French pastry.

      I'll chance it up here.

      But, I think I'll write him and suggest he change his name. It would beg a "win-win" for both of us. For me, it would mean I didn't have to go through my archives trying to find those early posts where I called him Eton, and nobody told me.

      Thanks jdn74.  

      I was just reading about BNDF which helps old people make new neural connections. I gotta get me some of that..

      They say exercise is the best way to boost it, but surely there must be something less extreme.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 04:18:48 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for your work (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog, alwaysquestion

    always a pleasure to read.

  •   "How do we expect to keep up with Chinese... (4+ / 0-)
    "How do we expect to keep up with Chinese defense spending if their economy surpasses ours, and it is only a matter of time at 7% - 10% per year compound growth rates. - a clear and present danger."
    Right there's a reason for the military/industrial complex to come up with a way to deal with teapotty  extremists.

    Related:

    May 23, 2014, 11:45 A.M. ET

    Barclays Downgrades Electric Utility Bonds, Sees Viable Solar Competition

    Electric utilities… are seen by many investors as a sturdy and defensive subset of the investment grade universe. Over the next few years, however, we believe that a confluence of declining cost trends in distributed solar photovoltaic (PV) power generation and residential-scale power storage is likely to disrupt the status quo.

    Based on our analysis, the cost of solar + storage for residential consumers of electricity is already competitive with the price of utility grid power in Hawaii. Of the other major markets, California could follow in 2017, New York and Arizona in 2018, and many other states soon after.

    In the 100+ year history of the electric utility industry, there has never before been a truly cost-competitive substitute available for grid power.

    We believe that solar + storage could reconfigure the organization and regulation of the electric power business over the coming decade.

    We see near-term risks to credit from regulators and utilities falling behind the solar + storage adoption curve and long-term risks from a comprehensive re-imagining of the role utilities play in providing electric power.

    http://blogs.barrons.com/...
    •  You know I've been critical of our excess defense (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ladywithafan, RMForbes

      spending.  I just thought it would be a fun twist to turn the anti-communist military spending around and accuse the Republicans of being so soft and damaging to our economy to create a "clear and present danger" to our national security.

      I've still very pleased with how that part turned out although admittedly that section is way too long.  Now that we have the idea down, we can boil it down to some bumper sticker phrases.

      I intend to make this argument a serious threat to all politicians and companies who do not immediately drop their affiliations with ALEC.  

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:11:47 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Barclays doesn't provide good advice... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HoundDog, duhban

      What's a banker know about "storage" devices. That's a fancy word for batteries. A homeowner that goes off-the-grid is going to need a lot of them. And if there's one thing electrical engineer's know about batteries is that they SUCK.

      ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

      by Notreadytobenice on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:21:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  you realize that China is one of the worst (5+ / 0-)

    when it comes not only to coal plants but unregulated coal building?

    I'm not sure what pisses me off more the cherry picking to make China seem like it's better than the US or the complete silence on China's massive and perhaps unprecedented pollution problem.

    I'll believe the hype on China on this or any other thing when it actually happens because China has a history of white washing the truth in these 'reports' of theirs

    Der Weg ist das Ziel

    by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 05:52:07 PM PDT

    •  China builds a coal power plant every week... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      duhban, Rich in PA, HoundDog

      90% of their rivers are so polluted the water does not meet even industrial use grade. Getting off a plane in China is.....breathtaking.

      ------T'is a take-off from a Dixie Chicks song. I'm a fan------

      by Notreadytobenice on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:24:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  exactly (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Notreadytobenice, HoundDog

        I'm continually mystified that China is held up as this mythical force that will lead the way on solar especially in the context of what China is currently doing.

        Der Weg ist das Ziel

        by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 06:27:17 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, I realize that China is one of the worst, if (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          duhban, Metric Only, ozsea1

          not the worst, as I've written more posts on that here than anyone I know with the possible exception of MB. I'd have to check, I think he concentrates on local issues a little more, but I'd happily deffer on that point.

          In your first comment I readily agreed that China is one of the worst, I think the worst actually because few of their plants have scrubbers or any modern pollution controls.

          And, also that they are suffering from a horrendous pollution crisis.

          I didn't mention there but will add here that they along with the U.S. have been to two must stubborn holdouts on controls on carbon emissions which was my starting point in bringing up the ironic and poignant possibility that they may suddenly pull ahead of us.

          Remember this post is about the possibility of the U.S. achieving grid parity in 2015, not a comprehensive analysis of Chinese energy production and pollution.

          (Note that in the U.S. we have federal and state RPS tax incentives, and our coal generation is likely more expensive than is China's because of our more stringent environmental regulations.  

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:12:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  US regulations are changing (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HoundDog

            China still will not even confirm whether they're building more plants or even what regulations they face.

            It's not comparable.

            Grid parity is probably another decade away for solar (then again the price is dropping fast so I could be completely off there) but what I take issue with is you either quoting or directly passing on Chinese propaganda.  It especially annoyed me how your diary acts like China is going to suddenly become enlightened and lead the world or something plus your characterization of legitimate tariffs as something they are not. Really?

            I read a lot of your diaries. Sometimes I agree with them sometimes I disagree but here and now you're pushing propaganda as fact and I for one object.

            It's incredibly doubtful that China is going to pull ahead of us given both their pollution crisis but also the crisis of their rising middle class. For all the hysterical nonsense about the US being an authoritative regime China really is. And as such it's a real show case for the short comings of such a regime and an example as to why most of the rest of the 'first world' doesn't adopt such government.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:38:58 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  You make interesting points and thank for tipping (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              DonMahoney

              my comment, as I have tipped yours in the spirit of constructive engagement.


              I take issue with is you either quoting or directly passing on Chinese propaganda.
              Where have I done this? I don't know what you are talking about it, every thing here is either the quote I reference, or my own thoughts I just typed here not looking at anything. with the exception being the two reports about their learning curve cost strategy which I'll provide a reference for in a minute.  
              It especially annoyed me how your diary acts like China is going to suddenly become enlightened and lead the world or something plus your characterization of legitimate tariffs as something they are not. Really?
              I believe China is trying to maximize it's own self-interest which I thought was clear I am unhappy about, and one the main purposes of this post was to shame, or anger, Americans into getting off our asses and doing something about.
              plus your characterization of legitimate tariffs as something they are not.
              Again you confuse me here because I did not intend to characterize American tariffs except to perhaps suggest they are likely to be ineffective due to the fact that the last article I read on them suggested they will turn out to be approximately 19%, which the Chinese can offset by one doubling of the installed base which if we go back to the point at which they appear to have started this strategy they may have already neutralized.

              To make my point more clear suppose we imagine within the next decade they have succeeded in capturing the majority of the global solar industry. Looking back they will laugh saying it was a small cost of doing business, and a smart thing to have done, and something they would do over.  

              Look at what I am saying carefully. I am trying to examine the soundness of their thinking they way we might a chess player, or one side of a basketball game.

              By making such a comment, I am not endorsing their five year plan, communism, or saying anything at all about the legitimacy, legality, etc of the American tariffs.  

              I am merely saying if a player  commits an "intentional foul" during a basketball game, that causes his team to win, do you think when the team gets back into the locker room, the coach is going to give the team a lecture about morality?

              Given that my post was already three pages too long, ever sentence past the first half page came with a grimace because I now that every doubling of length past that point cuts readership by more than half.

              So, I intentionally did not explore the issue that the Chinese say these were legitimate projects to improve China's future, and the U.S. trade complaint include a lot more items than just the gigantic demand boosts, but subsidized interest etc. I said nothing at all about the legitimacy of our complaint, so I hope you will retract both of your mischaracterizations of my remarks.

              I said nothing of virtue or enlightenment, but did congratulate China for being ruthlessly Machiavellian, as I characterized them a nearly "stealing" American technology.

              And not the entire second half of the post was intended of taking the initial anger you seem to have misplaced in directed a me, and direct that towards our lackadaisical politicians which I am implying I intend to tar them with labels of being anti-American if they do not respond in kind and support our industries the way China has theirs.

              I am therefore suggesting that the American tariffs are not only legitimate but no where near enough if we really want to save any U.S. based solar industries. We need a coordinated high level industrial policy.

              This is about as opposite of Chinese propaganda as one can get.

              Anger is the correct emotion but not at me for being part of a Chinese propaganda effort.

              I've implied they have declared an economic war on our solar industry and even intentionally used the reference to them having a Pearl Harbor day, (which in retrospect was the wrong day to choose) but I am trying to light a fire under U.S.. politicians to snap out of this hypnotized state where even Democrats at this point start reciting "free market" theology like it was some Marxist platitudes.  

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 09:46:59 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I want to add here (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HoundDog

            that I agree a lot with most of your diary but I simply refuse to reccomend it because of the bit about China. It's nothing personal on my end I simply disagree.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:40:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  That'fine duhban. We've had plenty of good (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              duhban

              conversations, and I'm glad you made all of the remarks you did, as I've learned a lot and had a chance to clarify part of my argument that your comments helped me see were not sufficiently clear.

              The comment about me repeating Chinese propaganda was a little cheeky I thought, but sort of entertaining.

              And the part about me "white washing" the Chinese pollution crises got my goat too as I ask you in all sincerity duhban, can you name even one kog who has written more articles, and made more mentions, of Chinese pollution in comment than I have?

              If I ever make it too one of the Kossack annual conventions that one of the possible award I might prepare a speech for just in case, "Author with the most mentions of Chinese pollution." That is if they gave out certificates at these things which I do not believe they do.

              Maybe you did this on purpose just to see if you could get a rise out of me.

              Or maybe you were testing to see if it was really me responding to comments or if I hired an assistant to type "thanks for sharing,"  like some of the other authors do?

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:45:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  lol so 2nd addendum (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HoundDog

            I'm utterly flattered for the update and now that I understand your intent have recced the diary.

            Der Weg ist das Ziel

            by duhban on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 09:18:53 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh, good, you came just in time duhban as I have (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              duhban

              just written you three more extremely long 3rd, 4th, and 5th addendums that are collective even longer than my enormously too long post.

              And, was just warming up. I was just about to write a sixth, but was going to find a different comment to attach it to so it didn't look like I was ranting and raving but just casually passing by.

              lol

              Well, you did raise several excellent points about Chinese pollution and there being the worst coal polluters around.

              But when you accuse me of "whitewashing" these facts. and repeating Chinese propaganda you really riled me up, duhbah.

              Because, I'm trying to fife up Americans to stand up and fight for "our" solar and wind industries!!!

              It's almost too bad I see your funny comment here, because I'm so worked up now, as soon as I found a naked comment you made somewhere else here that I haven't already attached at least two long tirades to.

              This next one was going to be really good one, probably the best yet. Like Declaration of Independence level, Yes that's the ticket, duhban, I would get the Declaration of Independence and copy that first couple paragraphs before the grievances..

              Maybe we could pretend like we could pretend like this reproachmont happened latter.

              Because when in the course of human events, it becomes necessary to point out how wrong duhban's characterization of my remarks are, it is incumbent upon an author to enumerate the errors ... etc. etc. it could have been a classic.

              Oh, well, this is a relief actually because I remembered you as one of the "good readers" probably even almost like a friend, or at least on our way, at least smart and reasonable,  so your surprise attack ... surprised me.  That's probably why I brought up the whole Pearl Harbor metaphor.  But, now I'm so glad I didn't call you a treacherous scoundrel as imagine how awkward that would be now.

              Oh, well, it's too bad we didn't start this earlier as now its sort of late.

              But, I should at least thank you for giving an old dog some exercise and entertainment. It's always sad to see those poor old dogs that get so tired they just lay on the poor looking sad and do not even bother to chase passing cars anymore.

              Now I fell like I chased some cars but got several and chewed on the tires.

              Thanks for commenting and cheers duhban.

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 10:07:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  lol so consolidating here (0+ / 0-)

                I'm going to use this as a response to all your comments and hopefully a clarification.

                I read the section starting with

                China has taken a more positive and wiser strategy using this knowledge to buy its way down the solar industry learning curve. Rather than ask, "how long will it be before solar energy generation can match, or beat the cost of coal generation?" They asked, "how much would it cost to make solar energy less expensive than coal?  
                And ending with
                4. China then emerges as the dominant global player in solar energy technologies invented, and cultivated down the first 50 years of the learning curve by the U.S. when the new technologies were outrageously expensive. But sadly, our backwards political leaders slept, or solve themselves, and our country, out to coal industry lobbyists, and ALEC, for a few pieces of silver.  
                And that portion (especially before your update) as propaganda. I wasn't and still am not sure if this is analysis of the previous article or your own words. It sounds like from talking with you that this was more musing aloud a couple of 'what ifs'. If so I'm sorry for misunderstanding your diary.

                There's been a lot of sensationalized articles about China and how it's the next superpower and in the context of the cited portion above I thought at first your article was another one of those.

                Other than that I liked your article quite a bit. I  hope that allows you to understand where I was coming from whether I was understanding your diary or not.

                Der Weg ist das Ziel

                by duhban on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 08:16:35 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

  •  Holly (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog

    Fucking COW !

    nicely done HD
    I'm ready for a job doing some of this stuff !

    I can build stuff !

    •  Thanks so much eeff. This is one of the best (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      eeff

      writing complements I've ever received, and is going up on my wall of inspiration.

      I'm hoping one day to become a professional writer and still have a lot to learn, and a long ways to go, so I need this kind of inspiration.

      In my "spare time" I've been reading articles about punctuation which still boggles my mind sometime. I have one article on the 18 rules for using commas, and I was surprised to discover 'throwing some in at random for show' wasn't on the list.

      Why wasn't I informed of this? ! ? (sic - see I now know sometimes when I am being bad, but still do it anyway - because that the kind dog I am.)

      Thanks again eeff. I greatly appreciate your many kind and supportive comments.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 08:19:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Offshore wind jobs will pay very well (0+ / 0-)

      85k to start.

      .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

      by Roger Fox on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 01:39:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Berkshire and NRG vs the wingnuts (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog

    if you want to make right wingers crazy,
    point out that Buffet and NRG are investing hard
    in renewable energy,  they just detonate.

    They can't stand that, it makes them crazy.

    I say it's just inevitable change, and they start
    ranting about Hippies, and Obama and subsidies.

    it's the damnedest thing.

    I think someone should do a psych paper maybe
    add to the DS-V (Right Wing Adjustment Disorder).

    I've seen rightists start sobbing about how the
    Hippies are winning.

    •  This sounds like great fun patbahn. Were are some (0+ / 0-)

      of the target rich places too go to have such fun?

      Thanks.

      I'm always pleased when you are making funny comments like this, as whenever I publish on more complicated energy issues, I always worry that you might catch some error.

      I'm trying to remember which post if was it was I wrote last week that was on some complicated new energy proposition or state regulatory rules  that had 200 plus comments and I say your name flash by in that little box in the lower right which shows whose making comments.

      So I was holding my breath all the way down 200 comments to see what you were going to say, and it was one of the silliest and funniest comments I've seen you make.

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 11:51:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Informative & good diary, but I have a question... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HoundDog

    Even if solar becomes cheaper than coal, how can residential be cheaper than commercial?
    Even when solar becomes cheaper than coal, economy of scale would make commercial solar cheaper than residential solar.

    As an analogy, wind is more efficient & cheap from commercial operations than from residential & that's not even including storage costs. You can do the same with any other electrical generating method, and the cost and efficiency still heavily favors commercial over residential.

    Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain.

    by Midwest is best on Sat Jul 05, 2014 at 10:48:34 PM PDT

    •  I agree with you Midwest. I'm trying to remember - (0+ / 0-)

      I don't recall saying residential solar would be cheaper than commercial solar?

      Oh, do you mean in terms of grid parity and people dropping off the grid?

      I'm not sure what you are asking.

      Oh, you mean when I said Chinese solar will be at "grid partity" with coal?

      This is an interesting issue about definitions, because when I read that I figured they meant that large scale commercial solar farms would match production costs for coal plants, so without thinking I assumed they were using the term loosely.

      Now, that you've brought it up, you make a good point, as grid parity usually seems to be used comparing residential solar panels against grid costs.

      I'll have to go back and check.

      I wasnt intending to have mentioned that article in this post as I wanted it to be a fast way to get something up as I haven't hardly written anything this week.

      i"ll go back and examine those sources more carefully tomorrow. It's after 3:00 am now and I've got to call it a night.  

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 12:03:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hi Midwest, me again. Sorry its so late I seem (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Midwest is best

      to have forgotten the title of my own post.

      You mean how can U.S. panels be cheaper than U.S. solar farms.

      So you are asking why don't the utilities just build solar farms and beat the price of residential panels?

      Remember the grid price is set by the utility commission to give the utilities about a 10% return on investment and  includes the transmission lines, all the legacy plants owned by the company, and presumable some amount for overhead.

      So the fact that any solar farm built in 2015 should be able to generate electricity even less expensively than the rooftop panel does not mean that would set the grid price.   i

      Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

      by HoundDog on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 12:14:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I see your point, but the economy of scale (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        HoundDog

        of commercial vs residential should beat the pants off of a measly 10%.

        I bring this issue up because I had the same thoughts on wind energy (I'm an Iowan, 25% of our energy is wind power now IIRC) and this issue was asked at a 'off the grid/do it yourself' forum & although wind has an inherent advantage for going big that solar doesn't (for every 1 foot of blade length 3 times as much power is produced--cubic footage, FTW) but even discounting that disadvantage, the EOS works the same way as--for example-- a nat gas turbine in the basement wouldn't be nearly as efficient as commercial.
        Essentially the grid's cheap compared to the loss of efficiency for large vs small operations.

        In any case, I can see that residential vs commercial is obviously a side-issue to your larger point of solar becoming economically preferable.

        Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain.

        by Midwest is best on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 01:27:23 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Still, this is an excellent question to pursue as (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Midwest is best

          these are the kinds of issues we must master to hold up in debates with opponents of renewable energy.

          The 10% return on investment is just one extra cost.

          Remember also the transmissions lines which could be 25% (I'm just making up an illustrative number.)

          The management overhead, other employees, and then the return built into the rates of for the return on investment of the legacy plants.

          Remember as well the pure relative cost also not how we have to look at the decision making process.

          The residential homeowner cares not if a theoretical calculation may indicate the marginal extra electricity generated by a solar farm could generate that extra electricity a lower marginal cost.

          The home owner is primarily interest in cash flow and cost relative to his standard electric bill.

          If due to a special federal government program or state RPS she receives a major tax credit the net cost for that home owner may be 30% or more, less expensive than the market price.

          Then we must also take into account some people may make the decision on "climate patriotism," prestige, hatred of the utility, or the psychology of being "offgrid" for survivalim or self-reliance.

          Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

          by HoundDog on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:27:59 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I'm still skeptical of commercial vs residental (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            HoundDog

            cost, but you are absolutely right that if it's close there would be a shitload (I hope I'm not getting too scientific with numbers :) of people that would go for it...I know I would.

            I'm not afraid of being a bit of an 'American exceptionalist', and I think that our individualism is something to embrace and would definitely be something that could be sold well beyond the 'dollar cost' benefits.

            Seeing as it is still 4th of July weekend, allow me to add in closing.....USA! USA! USA!

            Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain.

            by Midwest is best on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:48:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  :-) Yaah, USA. (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Midwest is best

              Humor Alert! No statement from this UID is intended to be true, including this one. Intended for recreational purposes only. Unauthorized interpretations may lead to unexpected results. This waiver void where prohibited. Artistic License - 420420

              by HoundDog on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:51:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  $10 to $30 billion per year Chinese investment (0+ / 0-)

    Is that all it takes to pull out of this fossil feul nightmare?!

    $10 to $30 billion per year of Chinese government sponsored solar projects  over the recent years.

    Gee perhaps if US Presidents didn't have the Insane Hobby of spreading democrazy around the Arab world. The US would have $10-$30 billion in pocket change.

    But no I guess it's a pipe dream to think the US will stop carpet bombing the world -- because Freedumb.


    No longer Hoping for Change. Now Praying for a Miracle.

    by CitizenOfEarth on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 04:49:58 AM PDT

  •  They're still in a bad mood over ACA. (0+ / 0-)

    They're in a bad mood over uppity poor people, who don't know their place, and uppity brown-skinned people, and uppity sexual deviants, and, damn, uppity, raucous, slutty  women who don't know their place (under men, if you please :) and in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant).

    If the RW is in a petulant mood, and unable to think about the future, these outrages are why.

    Thanks for the diary.

    Supple and turbulent, a ring of men/ Shall chant in orgy on a summer morn...

    by karmsy on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 06:52:09 AM PDT

  •  As prices drop another 75% (0+ / 0-)

    We'll see the LCOE for solar go down from 10 cents Per KWH to 2.5 cents.

    Big capital knows this, and will flow even more rapidly as solar passes 5 cents..... on the way to under 3 cents.

    .................expect us......................... FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

    by Roger Fox on Sun Jul 06, 2014 at 09:11:44 AM PDT

  •  The future.... (0+ / 0-)

    "Another important matter is that electric vehicles will enable a more decentralized, self-sufficient energy system. John writes: “Once homes can not only generate but store energy, it’s at least possible they could decouple from the grid entirely–meaning they’re lost to their local utility forever.”

    I certainly hope so. I would LOVE to drive a totally electric car, but right now charging stations are not universally available. There are a couple at rest stops along the freeway, and one at Whole Foods, but right now, that's about it. I'm confident technology will take care of that soon.

  •  The paradigm of American superpowerdom (0+ / 0-)

    peaked in an error of not air or sea power but oil power. This circumstance has shaped our entire strategic doctrine - one of forward projection of power through overseas bases, aircraft carriers and pre-emptive war against sometimes imaginary dangers, a doctrine that was massively reinforced first by Pearl Harbor then much later by 9/11.

    Our entire way of protecting American interests, as defined by political leaders who are quite often cozy with fossil energy concerns (and in the post 9/11 universe increasingly handpicked by same), is to

    1. identify sources of energy, usually quite concentrated geographically and spaced out across the entire planet
    2. support a means of sending high concentration of air, sea and ground power to any such location very quickly and on very short notice
    3. controlling transport of energy from source to refinery to markets, usually sea lanes but also airspace over pipelines
    4. denying security of extraction, refinement, transport and supply to enemies...or merely having credible threat to do so as leverage in negotiations across a wide diplomatic and commercial space

    In this paradigm, no country not even China can outmatch the United States or is likely to do so any time soon even as the PRC's economy outstrips that of the USA.

    Now change the paradigm to solar energy. Several things happen

    1. America-model combined arms doctrine can't blockade the sun. Enemies can make energy at point of sale. Our strategic option is reduced to obliteration of population centers. Independent of global diplomatic opprobrium, this sort of thing isn't flexible. We'd be scrambling to fill the instant gap in mid-stage responses.
    2. The incentive of current allies to tolerate what is often misconstrued as American highhandedness in its dealings with junior partners would be somewhat reduced. The moment they are on solar energy, they don't need protection of their energy supplies in the same fashion though they will need help staving off aggression from larger societies that, for lack of a better term, are A-holes, so there will be some market for American security services in the new era, same as in the pre-industrial one.
    3. However, the geopolitical order will be quite randomized. We'll have fewer close friends, a few new frenemies with benefits, perhaps a new major peer/near-peer competitor or two, none of whom will be particularly vulnerable to our suddenly-outmoded mode of laying the smack on countries that have it coming (even if it is just in our collective head that they do).
    4. So we will have all these carrier groups, all these planes...and we will presumably not be chuckleheads and have lots of solar energy production infrastructure of our own (unless we REALLY want to be an ex-superpower, which might happen, I would never count out the Power of Stupid).
    5. The thing is, solar energy tends to be dispersed. It has to be protected both in depth and in detail. In practice defense - or interdiction - of this neighbor would resemble old style horse cavalry/dragoon infantry combat complete with light artillery capability perhaps via copter. I'm not sure how solar powered copters happen in the short run but maybe swap that out with drones for close air cover for the nearer decades. Cars/trucks would be electric and boy would they go.
    6. So think of which countries have the capacity to field large mobile land forces - large populations, a doctrine of primarily focused on land power not air/sea power, and able to function well in urban or rural settings, on good roads or bad (or none) and a winning track record at such endeavors. Namely, land wars.
    7. Population...land... land wars....Asia, maybe?

    Oh, and the sun shines in Asia. It's a big place. Room for lots of people and solar power facilities.

    And just like that, the USA is stuck with absolute control of sea lanes that no one really uses much anymore.

    Oops.

Meteor Blades, skybluewater, Alumbrados, paradox, Angie in WA State, Mimikatz, PrahaPartizan, deben, glitterscale, Liberal Thinking, misscee, Jeff Simpson, Gooserock, PeterHug, Shockwave, Wintermute, tacet, Cvstos, mslat27, eeff, exNYinTX, Doctor Who, sponson, cskendrick, susakinovember, peace voter, bluesteel, farmerhunt, PeteZerria, Cedwyn, Alna Dem, wader, Texknight, Dallasdoc, Miss Jones, CitizenOfEarth, Jujuree, defluxion10, grrr, Chris Reeves, zerelda, ybruti, NapaJulie, ScienceMom, Albanius, rmx2630, sebastianguy99, Gowrie Gal, rapala, davidincleveland, G2geek, humphrey, radarlady, Tinfoil Hat, salmo, NoMoreLies, Ckntfld, greatferm, Jensequitur, dewtx, Kdoug, YucatanMan, reflectionsv37, fixxit, owlbear1, SaraBeth, where4art, blue jersey mom, Sandino, kaliope, brentut5, Ginny in CO, FindingMyVoice, peacestpete, Alan Arizona, xaxnar, begone, skywriter, MadGeorgiaDem, kovie, golem, Patriot Daily News Clearinghouse, 417els, Dvalkure, ruleoflaw, KenBee, fou, StrayCat, A Siegel, philipmerrill, Ashaman, alwaysquestion, Crashing Vor, gabriella, hlsmlane, blue in NC, Turbonerd, BlueMississippi, thenekkidtruth, rage, Clive all hat no horse Rodeo, DonMahoney, MadMs, kurious, One Pissed Off Liberal, bear83, hooper, Habitat Vic, camlbacker, yoduuuh do or do not, karmsy, FishOutofWater, Mary Mike, greenchiledem, bnasley, martyinsfo, millwood, bobinalaska, JDWolverton, Roger Fox, GAS, Aureas2, bythesea, monkeybrainpolitics, Calamity Jean, pickandshovel, jdn74, doppler effect, JamieG from Md, SpiffPeters, tuckerm, 207wickedgood, Bule Betawi, J M F, nchristine, The Dead Man, sweeper, asym, aboutmri, kevinpdx, sfarkash, ArthurPoet, ayjaymay, jpmassar, rebel ga, serendipityisabitch, Susan Grigsby, archkcmo, LOrion, Polly Syllabic, RJP9999, renzo capetti, Eddie L, cordgrass, Egalitare, DerAmi, addisnana, nirbama, ericlewis0, Oh Mary Oh, nosleep4u, soaglow, slice, dot farmer, Onomastic, kerflooey, ladywithafan, ozsea1, slowbutsure, BillyElliott, FarWestGirl, Alice Olson, Jasonhouse, lwbrown, BarackStarObama, VirginiaJeff, RMForbes, fossil fish, antooo, greenkrete, VTCC73, Caddis Fly, Frameshift, DRo, ParkRanger, No one gets out alive, Take a Hard Left, BlueDragon, cwsmoke, IndieGuy, Eric Nelson, Joieau, 2thanks, DrCoyle65, belinda ridgewood, tucanaz, BusyinCA, MartyM, wxorknot, GDbot, arizonablue, etherealfire, George3, James Wells, Wonton Tom, Hammerhand, Dallas L, Dewstino, unfangus, nasheval, northerntier, Mike Kahlow, librarisingnsf, duhban, skepticalcitizen, Metric Only, brianmkennedy, Lklukas, patbahn, bygorry, Choco8, bull8807, dialysisterLCO, hbk, robertcwatson, SecularSchoolTeacher, kfunk937, Zadatz, J Graham, allie4fairness, Midwest is best, DocSalvage

Subscribe or Donate to support Daily Kos.

Click here for the mobile view of the site