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It is open season on President Obama. He is a weak president. He is too cautious, they say. Even Hillary Clinton has jumped on the bandwagon. Hillary Clinton seems to be using the international unrest to criticize the President’s policies. She told the Atlantic:
“The failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who were the originators of the protests against Assad—there were Islamists, there were secularists, there was everything in the middle—the failure to do that left a big vacuum, which the jihadists have now filled,” Clinton said. …

This is what Clinton said about Obama’s slogan: “Great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle.”

Of course she is wrong. It is a continuum of doing stupid stuff and being presumptuous internationally that has cost us thousands of lives, cost hundreds of thousands of lives overseas, and depleted our treasury. Those who criticize President Obama for being overcautious should check history for America’s continuous blunders internationally that have kept us at war for decades with little marginal increase in security (Iraq twice, Iran, Panama, Grenada, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, etc.)

America has a tendency to go against the will of the people to support "dictators" of our liking. Dissension and unrest is usually the outcome. “Don’t do stupid stuff” is a very good framework in which to put any foreign policy move we make. Hillary Clinton would do well to not run the risk of reminding Americans how wrong her vote to support the war in Iraq was. Many may see it not as a mistake she made based on Bush’s lies, but as a kinship in values with the neocons.

This weekend a lazy, seemingly gullible reporter asked President Obama if he regretted not leaving troops in Iraq. That is a question based on Republican talking points and not journalistic inquiry. The reporter should have known that the U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement was signed by President Bush which specifically said all combat troops would leave Iraq in December of 2011. President Obama attempted to negotiate keeping more soldiers in Iraq but could not come to an agreement with the Iraqi government who wanted the soldiers out.

Please read below the fold for more on this story.

President Obama’s response to the reporter was classic. He slams the reporter’s tenet without raising his voice:

What I just find interesting is the degree to which this issue keeps on coming up, as if this was my decision. Under the previous administration, we had turned over the country to a sovereign, democratically elected Iraqi government. In order for us to maintain troops in Iraq, we needed the invitation of the Iraqi government and we needed assurances that our personnel would be immune from prosecution if, for example, they were protecting themselves and ended up getting in a firefight with Iraqis, that they wouldn’t be hauled before an Iraqi judicial system.

And the Iraqi government, based on its political considerations, in part because Iraqis were tired of a U.S. occupation, declined to provide us those assurances. And on that basis, we left. We had offered to leave additional troops. So when you hear people say, do you regret, Mr. President, not leaving more troops, that presupposes that I would have overridden this sovereign government that we had turned the keys back over to and said, you know what, you’re democratic, you’re sovereign, except if I decide that it’s good for you to keep 10,000 or 15,000 or 25,000 Marines in your country, you don’t have a choice—which would have kind of run contrary to the entire argument we were making about turning over the country back to Iraqis, an argument not just made by me, but made by the previous administration.

So let’s just be clear: The reason that we did not have a follow-on force in Iraq was because the Iraqis were—a majority of Iraqis did not want U.S. troops there, and politically they could not pass the kind of laws that would be required to protect our troops in Iraq.

President Obama then explains the reality that attempting a military solution for a socio-political problem in Iraq or any country is in fact "doing stupid stuff."
Having said all that, if in fact the Iraqi government behaved the way it did over the last five, six years, where it failed to pass legislation that would reincorporate Sunnis and give them a sense of ownership; if it had targeted certain Sunni leaders and jailed them; if it had alienated some of the Sunni tribes that we had brought back in during the so-called Awakening that helped us turn the tide in 2006—if they had done all those things and we had had troops there, the country wouldn’t be holding together either. The only difference would be we’d have a bunch of troops on the ground that would be vulnerable. And however many troops we had, we would have to now be reinforcing, I’d have to be protecting them, and we’d have a much bigger job. And probably, we would end up having to go up again in terms of the number of grounds troops to make sure that those forces were not vulnerable.

So that entire analysis is bogus and is wrong. But it gets frequently peddled around here by folks who oftentimes are trying to defend previous policies that they themselves made.

The president concludes by showing why many wanted him to be president. He is not only thoughtful but understands that lessons can be and must be learned from past mistakes. Most importantly it is evident he ignores the noise as best he can from the pawns of the military industrial complex in attempting to do the right thing.
Going forward with respect to Afghanistan, we are leaving the follow-on force there. I think the lesson for Afghanistan is not the fact that we’ve got a follow-on force that will be capable of training and supporting Afghan security efforts. I think the real lesson in Afghanistan is that if factions in a country after a long period of civil war do not find a way to come up with a political accommodation; if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is, I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold.

And the good news is, is that in part thanks to the excellent work of John Kerry and others, we now are seeing the two candidates in the recent presidential election start coming together and agreeing not only to move forward on the audit to be able to finally certify a winner in the election, but also the kinds of political accommodations that are going to be required to keep democracy moving.

So that’s a real lesson I think for Afghanistan coming out of Iraq is, if you want this thing to work, then whether it’s different ethnicities, different religions, different regions, they’ve got to accommodate each other, otherwise you start tipping back into old patterns of violence. And it doesn’t matter how many U.S. troops are there—if that happens, you end up having a mess.

The above news conference has not received the coverage it deserves. Instead, long debunked statements and actions by necons (Senator John McCain and Lindsey Graham and neocon lites like Hillary Clinton) are given coverage without the appropriate historical and journalistic analysis. America must not fall into war based on the same faulty analysis and lies of the past.
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Comment Preferences

  •  Excellent answer by the president. (228+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Yosef 52, fcvaguy, True North, Odysseus, decisivemoment, Gooserock, TrueBlueMajority, delbert, Yoshimi, Jay C, HappyMichBlogger, khyber900, TracieLynn, Wee Mama, mmacdDE, retLT, fumie, wader, penguins4peace, Catte Nappe, The Termite, lcrp, Brian82, JayBat, zerelda, jj32, WisVoter, Hillbilly Dem, NapaJulie, Sassy, BDA in VA, G2geek, radarlady, ichibon, jiffypop, dewtx, fixxit, WinSmith, sunbro, PinHole, FindingMyVoice, peacestpete, Philpm, poco, The Sheeping of America, myboo, edwardssl, tobendaro, raptavio, jpw, arlene, SherriG, StrayCat, twigg, middleagedhousewife, MBNYC, CA Nana, Ian Reifowitz, AllanTBG, Leap Year, cpresley, Cronesense, wildweasels, Matt Z, jayden, tcdup, Bridge Master, Patate, Dodgerdog1, SphericalXS, citisven, Mathazar, I give in to sin, Rogneid, mhazard, 3rdOption, Little Flower, mzkryz, SaintC, Chitown Kev, msdrown, ozsea1, chujb, llbear, ChemBob, PeteZerria, doingbusinessas, sethtriggs, cotterperson, Karl Rover, linkage, new10, I love OCD, bobcat41702, ORswede, marina, zizi, 1BQ, BYw, xaxnar, fou, nomandates, hbk, artebella, Tortmaster, Texknight, LawnGylander, etherealfire, cwsmoke, subtropolis, sabo33, War4Sale, angry hopeful liberal, TexDem, dougfir30, ybruti, PurpleElectric, Jeff Y, Creosote, Trix, happymisanthropy, MichaelNY, kurt, cherish0708, FarWestGirl, Moderation, missLotus, rambler american, Heart n Mind, Goingallout, zukesgirl64, paj1, spunhard, LamontCranston, catlady, Mayfly, anna shane, Shadowmage36, OhioNatureMom, socalvillaguy, unfangus, Calamity Jean, genebuettner

    I think we need a foreign policy debate in this nation before the next president takes office.  Basing policy on fantasy is doing stupid shit, and we don't need that.  Americans do not want more wars.  President Obama gets it; some others do not.

    The only way Hillary Clinton can lose the nomination for president is to be a hawk.  So far, she is treading on thin ice, but not breaking through.  

    Join us on the Black Kos front porch to review news and views written from a black pov—everyone is welcome.

    by TomP on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:47:17 AM PDT

  •  Thanks nt (5+ / 0-)

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:48:12 AM PDT

  •  That quote from Hillary that's making the rounds (20+ / 0-)

    about "stupid stuff" is of course being taken totally out of context.

    "You can't fix stupid" --Ron White -6.00, -5.18

    by zenbassoon on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 08:54:18 AM PDT

  •  She needs to be quiet (20+ / 0-)

    the last Democratic candidate who criticized the sitting Democrat in the White House didn't win the election.

    •  Yeah, but "Thanks, Obama." (8+ / 0-)

      -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

      by sunbro on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:16:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe you should read the actual interview (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      The grouch

      or perhaps look above your comments to see the quote in context.

      She isn't criticizing the President at all.

      Charlie Crist for Florida Primary date: August 26, 2014, Election Date: November 4, 2014

      by aimeehs on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:36:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I did and she did criticize the president. (6+ / 0-)

        Read the whole paragraph that leads up to her gaffe. Oh, here it is:

        But she also suggested that she finds his approach to foreign policy overly cautious, and she made the case that America needs a leader who believes that the country, despite its various missteps, is an indispensable force for good. At one point, I mentioned the slogan President Obama recently coined to describe his foreign-policy doctrine: “Don’t do stupid shit” (an expression often rendered as “Don’t do stupid stuff” in less-than-private encounters).

        This is what Clinton said about Obama’s slogan: “Great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle.”

        She softened the blow by noting that Obama was “trying to communicate to the American people that he’s not going to do something crazy,” but she repeatedly suggested that the U.S. sometimes appears to be withdrawing from the world stage.

      •  I'll still vote for Hillary (0+ / 0-)

        even though she is posturing. Politically, she is trying to position herself as firmer, tougher....someone who can go toe-to-toe with Vladimir Putin, for example. Her goal is to peal away some of the voters on the Republican and independent side who think that a black male Democrat cannot possibly be adept at matters of the military nor foreign policy.

        Hillary has a reputation among even the Republicans as being tough, and she is trying to fortify that impression among so-called independent voters (i.e. the less informed, "mushy middle" of the electorate).

        What Hillary is not mentioning is that the intelligence experts here in our agencies were caught off-guard by the amount of money and the amount of commitment the ISIS fighters had at the time they decided to gobble up Iraqi territory. She also does not emphasize that she would have been similarly surprised given the same set of circumstances, and that she now has the benefit of hindsight. Not only is hindsight 20/20, but also when you give arms to Syrian rebels, aren't you also in danger of unknowingly giving some arms to Al Qaeda?

        -4.75, -5.33 Cheney 10/05/04: "I have not suggested there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11."

        by sunbro on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 12:33:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  actually she did mention that in the interview (0+ / 0-)
          HRC: Well, I did believe, which is why I advocated this, that if we were to carefully vet, train, and equip early on a core group of the developing Free Syrian Army, we would, number one, have some better insight into what was going on on the ground.
          That seems pretty legit. We developed no assets in Syria so we had no idea what ISIS was, how big they were growing, and what their intentions might be. (though that's probably not true, it seems to me that the FSA was frantically trying to warn us about ISIS all along)

          As I understand it there are still coherent groups in Syria opposed to ISIS and Assad. So it stands to reason that had we taken the chance on the rebels we knew (as Clinton proposed at the time), maybe they could have provided intel and we would have been to anticipate ISIS before they took Mosul.

          when you give arms to Syrian rebels, aren't you also in danger of unknowingly giving some arms to Al Qaeda?
          That kind of concern doesn't seem to have curtailed weapon supplies to Afghanistan and Iraq. I think AQ siphoning off small arms and ammunition just isn't a large concern or a threat to US interests.

          That's what we're talking about here. Not tanks and helicopters. Rifles and ammunition, phones, computers, food. Satellite photos and reconnaissance. Training and advice.

          Anyways, ISIS currently controls a large number of tanks and other heavy weaponry supplied by the United States to the Iraqi army. So if it was that consideration that caused Obama to resist supporting the rebels it has clearly has backfired.

  •  Hillary Clinton's geopolitics concern me a lot (18+ / 0-)

    She sounds like an unreformed neocon.  Her original approval of the Iraq invasion  seems to fit this pattern.

    I bailed out of the GOP in great part because of the neocon influence in the build up to Iraq.

    Daily Kos an oasis of truth. Truth that leads to action. UID: 9742

    by Shockwave on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:11:58 AM PDT

    •  Well then you've come a long way since. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      I know many lifelong Democrats who are far less enlightened. We're lucky to have you.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:20:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hillary Clinton is starting to piss me off. (20+ / 0-)

    Why do I have the feeling George W. Bush joined the Stonecutters, ate a mess of ribs, and used the Constitution as a napkin?

    by Matt Z on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:13:34 AM PDT

  •  I don't get the huge deal made over a slogan: (7+ / 0-)
    This is what Clinton said about Obama’s slogan: “Great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle.”
    Well, yeah, it's a slogan, not something that's actually helpful in deciding what to do.  I don't think anyone is going to ARGUE about that.  I think people read into that quote a belief that there was no organizing principle, but IMO it's just the same mistake lots of people make when they confuse a bumper sticker slogan as all there is.  I don't see any evidence HRC is making that mistake.

    Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

    by Inland on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:15:48 AM PDT

    •  it's not the slogan itself (9+ / 0-)

      it's the fact that Hillary disagreed with Obama in a public and somewhat snide way on foreign policy

      Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
      Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

      by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:04:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She has to do this (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TrueBlueMajority, sweatyb

        Those of us who support Obama can still see the wisdom of her separating from him and carving out her own positions. Otherwise she is seen as just an extension of the Obama admin. I don't mind that but some will not vote for her if they perceive her in that light.

        It's just political dancing. She is who she is and if people like her they will vote for her. I don't think she has any animosity towards the President.

        Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. They lie through their teeth with their head up their behind. You open up their hearts and here's what you'll find - Some humans ain't human some people ain't kind. John Prine

        by high uintas on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:10:19 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  except... she didn't (0+ / 0-)

        certainly there was nothing snide in the interview.

      •  Not a snide thing there, and barely disagreement. (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TrueBlueMajority

        See my comment above:

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

        by Inland on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:35:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  i saw your earlier comment with the context (3+ / 0-)

          and in my earlier comment I reminded everyone that most people and most voters don't know/care about context.

          the take-away soundbite is disagreement and distancing and "Don’t do stupid stuff” is not an organizing principle" sounds like the kind of snippy thing RW folks say about PBO's community organizing experience

          Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
          Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

          by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:44:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Most people don't care about out of context either (0+ / 0-)

            and most people don't care about The Atlantic and most people don't give a crap about 2016 elections at this time.

            So there's not much slippage between the truth and the takeaway of the practice of internet reading.

            Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

            by Inland on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 12:42:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The Atlantic? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              zizi

              not one person in 100,000 knows that quote is from the Atlantic

              but average Joes are hearing the soundbite over and over again from every media outlet with the interpretation "Hilary criticized Obama on foreign policy"

              criticism of the president from someone in his own party affects his approval ratings negatively and can affect the midterms which people will be paying attention to in just a few weeks

              and they will be reminded of it ad nauseum when the 2016 campaign DOES begin in earnest next year

              so yes it matters

              Just because I read and understand the larger context does not mean the general electorate will react the same way and we have to start thinking more like them if we expect to ever win an election again

              Politics is like driving. To go backward put it in R. To go forward put it in D.
              Drop by The Grieving Room on Monday nights to talk about grief.

              by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:23:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  And the average joes will hear something else (0+ / 0-)

                next week.  Any idea how to head it off?  Me neither, aside from noting what was actually said on a blog, or for HRC to cloister herself so that people can't misrepresent what she says.

                 

                Someone actually admitted on DK, "Yes. If it pisses you and the other Greenwald-Tweet-pearl-clutchers off, it's smart." Wow. Just....wow.

                by Inland on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:28:40 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  And it sounds--- (0+ / 0-)

            And it sounds like something we would say to our teenagers as we hand then the keys for the first time.  

  •  Clinton should be reminded that while a lot of (14+ / 0-)

    good Democrats are deeply disturbed and angry over many of Obama's policies and positions they still like him as a person and President. She should not piss off people who chose Obama over herself in the 2008 primaries. In general people don't like being told they were wrong (see a zillion comments on this site for confirmation of that observation). Two plus years out from the election she should be courting the base, not pissing them off.

    Now commenting as Eric Eitreim aka ratcityreprobate.

    by ratcityreprobate on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:24:41 AM PDT

  •  Hillary Clinton (5+ / 0-)

    Just go away permanently. I will do everything in my power to ensure this neoliberal doesn't see a day in the WH. Fucking faux Democrats...

    The Republicans are crazy, but why we follow them down the rabbit hole is beyond me.

    by Jazzenterprises on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:24:48 AM PDT

  •  I'm never ever believe HRC is pandering (11+ / 0-)

    to the conservatives for votes.  I believe she believes everything she says.  And that should cause people to pause, to consider who she really is.

    I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

    by KayCeSF on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:34:03 AM PDT

    •  Edit: I... I mean I.... (3+ / 0-)

      Anyhow, last night I found the segment with Chris Hayes' guest, Rick Perlstein, Author of The Invisible Bridge, very interesting.

      According to Perlstein, the NYTimes also compared Hillary with Reagan's hubristic notion that America can heal the world and she's trying to sell this notion to the rest of us.  I'm not buying.  

      Clinton breaks with Obama on foreign policy

      The former Secretary of State attacks the president on Syria and lack of an “organizing principle” from the administration.

      http://www.msnbc.com/...  

      Apologies, I can't grab an URL directly to the video, but you can click on it at the link, above.

      I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

      by KayCeSF on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:50:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And 'who really' are the Republicans? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jerry056

      Or is that of no matter?

      Seriously: if I thought for one second a DK favorite could win the general in this backward country, I'd drop Hillary like a bag o' dirt.

      But who do we have?

      Her.  Period.  

      And the GOP must NEVER come near 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ever again.

      •  As many have said before, there are (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew

        a number of strong Democrats who could run, and I doubt anyone is going to announce until after Nov. 4. Why do you insist we only have "Her. Period?"

        She's already giving other possible Democratic contenders food for thought for the campaign trail as she goes into interviews and tries to play to both sides.  She certainly gives me more reason to hope other Democrats take the challenge.

        I would rather spend my life searching for truth than live a single day within the comfort of a lie. ~ John Victor Ramses

        by KayCeSF on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:38:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  when someone tells you who they are (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      askew

      believe them.

  •  Do Something Stupid (4+ / 0-)

    If Hillary keeps this up she will own that phrase. If she gets elected its bound to become the semiofficial name for her foreign policy doctrine, unless her actions prove otherwise. She has made a serious misstep here and casts further doubt on her as Presidential material. She can still redeem herself, but it is creating doubt in the Democratic electorate and further opens the door to a serious primary challenger. When Democrats behave like Democrats they win. Triangulation is last century's doctrine and it only succeeds if the candidate is so far superior to their opponent that they can't lose. The electorate of the last century is ancient history and using those tactics is bound to get you in trouble with the electorate we have today. What is it about Democrats that makes them want to appear to be Republicans? Its become almost pathological. Its like an abused spouse that want's to give their partner one more chance to slap them around. Hillary won't pick up any meaningful number of Republican voters in 2016. They are too set in their ways to be reasonable and open to her. The way she wins is by getting the Democrats to show up for her on election day and you don't do that by trying to appeal to Republicans. She may turn out to be a good President, but she gets too much credit for being a Clinton.  I say that without an ounce of sexism in me. She  lacks most of the political skills that Big Bill had and its showing just like it did in 2008. I still think its her election to lose, simply because no credible Democratic challenger wants to take her on and  Republicans are doomed to extinction and doing everything they can to hasten the inevitable. I could foresee her easily getting elected and then having the fight of her life from within the Democratic party as a sitting President. None of this has to happen. Its entirely up to her.

    Patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings. Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.... Dylan

    by bywaterbob on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:35:22 AM PDT

  •  Damn good answer, but it occurred to me (8+ / 0-)

    that this part:

    I think the real lesson in Afghanistan is that if factions in a country after a long period of civil war do not find a way to come up with a political accommodation; if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is, I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold.
    Is just as applicable here in the States, and why without a course correction, we are in for armed conflict in this country. The Right now insists on 100% of its wants and will accept no compromise.

    Of the almost 1,900 dead Palestinians, the IDF said it killed "900 terrorists" in Gaza. Add that to its long list of lies.

    by pajoly on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:36:30 AM PDT

    •  It's also applicable to Israel and the OTs (0+ / 0-)

      not to derail the thread or anything.

      "The great lie of democracy, its essential paradox, is that democracy is the first to be sacrificed when its security is at risk. Every state is totalitarian at heart; there are no ends to the cruelty it will go to to protect itself." -- Ian McDonald

      by Geenius at Wrok on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:51:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I want Hillary primaried. (10+ / 0-)

    Russ, Elizabeth, Bernie Sanders, Bernie Taupin... I don't care who, just as long as they give her a scare.

    She needs it.

  •  If Hillary is the Democratic nominee for president (5+ / 0-)

    I will not vote her.  

    The tent got so big it now stands for nothing.

    by Beelzebud on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:46:52 AM PDT

  •  I made the mistake of thinking this diary was (7+ / 0-)

    about Obama' speech about relations and troops in Iraq. I didn't realize it would be hijacked by Hillary haters.

  •  be nice if he'd admit (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    YucatanMan, MPociask, Odysseus

    that these agreements are designed to immunize US troops against all criminal charges, including the ones they've earned.

    And in the WTF department: we've apparently passed a law, somewhere along the way, that enables US troops to invade the Hague to 'rescue' US citizens who have been charged by the ICC. Apparently 'rule of law' is for other people.

    (Is it time for the pitchforks and torches yet?)

    by PJEvans on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:57:54 AM PDT

    •  Yes, President Obama conveniently left out (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MPociask

      some facts that actually bring a whole new light to the US desire to keep troops in Iraq and the Iraqi government's outrage and desire to insure they were kept out, unless they were subject to local laws:

      Chelsea Mannings information that made it to Wikileaks showed US troops and US contractors frequently killed Iraqis, including peaceful civilians, without reason or justification and whooped it up laughing about it, AND that the US government actively intervened to get those killers out of Iraq and protected them from prosecution.

      THAT is why Iraq would not allow US troops permanently stationed in Iraq.  Manning's leaks may have saved the lives of countless soldiers who would have been stationed in Iraq and subjected to suicide attacks and direct attacks from hostile groups.

      The fact is that the USA had been shameless in not seeing that justice be meted out to killers.  The USA is at fault.

      "The law is meant to be my servant and not my master, still less my torturer and my murderer." -- James Baldwin. July 11, 1966.

      by YucatanMan on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:27:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It'd also be nice... (0+ / 0-)

        If Obama would admit that he was just blowing hot air when he said he was fulfilling a campaign promise by bringing the troops home.

        Barack Obama, Oct. 21, 2011: "As a candidate for President, I pledged to bring the war in Iraq to a responsible end -- for the sake of our national security and to strengthen American leadership around the world . . . A few hours ago I spoke with Iraqi Prime Minister Maliki . . . We are in full agreement about how to move forward . . . So today, I can report that, as promised, the rest of our troops in Iraq will come home by the end of the year."

        Weird how when leaving Iraq was popular, he was fulfilng a campaign promise, but now that he's up for some mild criticism from Republicans, gosh, his hands were tied!  

        •  i really don't understand what you're saying here (0+ / 0-)
          If Obama would admit that he was just blowing hot air when he said he was fulfilling a campaign promise by bringing the troops home.
          BTW doesn't matter what O says- rw media decides how it is interpreted, even on the left

          rw criticism is not mild, it dominates- just listen to the 'liberal media' imitate republican blowhards and media hacks

          This is a list of 76 universities for Rush Limbaugh that endorse global warming denial, racism, sexism, and GOP lies by broadcasting sports on over 170 Limbaugh radio stations.

          by certainot on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:23:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  The US is not a signatory to the Rome Statue (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      vespers

      that established the ICC (actually, that's oversimplifying... the US initially signed but did not ratify, and has since announced its intent to revoke its signature -- or may have revoked already... I digress).  As such, the ICC does not automatically have jurisdiction over US citizens.  If there was no standing for the ICC to detain an American, it would probably be treated as a kidnapping, or at least wrongful imprisonment.  There ARE cases where a citizen of a non-member state can be tried by The Hague, but it's not automatic as it would be with citizens of member states.  So it probably isn't a "law we've passed" as much as it is a policy that's always existed by default, but somebody's just made a big deal of it recently.

      Or it could be exactly the way you describe it, in which case I'd think it would be unenforceable, since (all opinions to the contrary) the US cannot unilaterally make international law.

      I'll believe corporations are people when one comes home from Afghanistan in a body bag.

      by mojo11 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:36:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  good for you, Barack (5+ / 0-)


    and it is sad to see Hillary Clinton jumping on the bandwagon to blame Obama for the fact that Iraq is determined to have its civil war.

    "Kossacks are held to a higher standard. Like Hebrew National hot dogs." - blueaardvark

    by louisev on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 10:07:25 AM PDT

  •  I think the real lesson . . . is (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Kentucky DeanDemocrat, wu ming

     that if the Republican Party in this country . . . do[es] not find a way to come up with a political accommodation; if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is, I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold.

    There, fixed it for 'ya, Mr. President.

  •  Hillary didn't learn a thing from 2008. (4+ / 0-)

    Hillary didn't learn a thing from 2008.

  •  chattering class loves the Hillary v. Obama story (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, Uncle Moji, Chitown Kev

    it generates sales.

    At this point, I think it's obvious that neither the President nor Hillary Clinton care one lick what anyone (including each other) thinks of their foreign policy positions.

    It's likely because they don't formulate those positions by reading opinion columns or DKos diaries. They do it by analyzing the data they have on hand, combined with the views of the nation's best analysts, and their own experience and world-view.

  •  This President (11+ / 0-)

    seems to be about the only sane leader around when it comes to foreign policy.

    I know that HRC thinks she needs to distance herself from the President in some fashion, I guess.

    His poll numbers on foreign policy are strange.
    He is following the policy that the American people embrace, yet his numbers are very low at 36% on foreign policy.

    I think this low number is simply a reflection of world-wide turmoil, not the President policies.

    Once these crisis pass, his number will rebound on foreign policy as he will still be where the voters are.

    She can distance herself in domestic policy a bit, instead.
    Most troubling to me is her Iran comments.
    She might impact these negogiations if the Iranians sense that any deal made with Obama will be changed under HRC.

  •  I think he made a small mistake in his statement (5+ / 0-)

    He said,

    But it gets frequently peddled around here by folks who oftentimes are trying to defend previous policies that they themselves made.
    More accurately,
    But it gets frequently peddled around here by folks who oftentimes are trying to defend ignore ownership of previous policies that they themselves made.
     
    If BushCo would own their decision, then they would have to either defend it or say it was a mistake.  I don't hear any defending going on because that would implicitly support Obama's position.  

    If they want to own it and admit it was a mistake, that would more honest of them.  But instead they boil it down to "It's Obama mistake."

  •  Hillary may be a good politician (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    raincrow, cherish0708

    But she's not half the leader that Obama is.

  •  Oh, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    so this is how the Clintons make their money.
    Brilliant, really.

  •  doing stupid stuff was W's SOP (3+ / 0-)
    Of course she is wrong. It is a continuum of doing stupid stuff and being presumptuous internationally that has cost us thousands of lives, cost hundreds of thousands of lives overseas, and depleted our treasury. Those who criticize President Obama for being overcautious should check history for America’s continuous blunders internationally that have kept us at war for decades with little marginal increase in security (Iraq twice, Iran, Panama, Grenada, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, etc.)

    Warning - some snark may be above‽ (-9.50; -7.03)‽ eState4Column5©2013 "If we appear to seek the unattainable, then let it be known that we do so to avoid the unimaginable." (@eState4Column5)

    by annieli on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:10:07 AM PDT

  •  So this is a good idea when you're running (5+ / 0-)

    for President?

    Badmouth the existing President of your own party just prior to midterm elections and embrace right wing talking points?

    So you don't give a shit how your party fares during the election, and you signal to every liberal(ish) dem that you don't consider them your core constituents.

    When you don't have to say anything at all.  Because apparently you didn't push your agenda while you were, you know, Secretary of fucking State.

    Because only Third Way dems are?  Or 'moderate' repugnicans?

    Brilliant strategy.

  •  Hillary Clinton (11+ / 0-)

    may think she's has a lock on the nomination, but 8 years ago, I think she thought that way as well.

    The country is tired, wingers and liberals and just about everybody in between, of fighting wars in the middle east.   She may be talking to the MIC and her APAIC friends, but in the end, if she sounds like McCain light, she'sl going to lose support.  And she will deserve it.

    As for the President, yes, it is about time he schools stupid reporters carrying water for the right.  He should have been more vocal years ago.

  •  Diary (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    FiredUpInCA, Words In Action
    “Great nations need organizing principles, and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle.”
    The majority of dems on here know our party has a messaging problem

    Hillary thinks going on for an 1/2 hour like an intellectual neoliberal will some how benefit dems

    When the fact is peoples eyes glaze over in 2 minutes and they are switching channels to get the latest update on Kim Kardashians gluteus maximus baby weight numbers

    How is Hillary helping to benefit the 2014 elections with all this? Is she campaigning for anyone to help them win in Nov?  

    Obama nailed it in real term language everyone can understand , right on brother

    Beer Drinkers & Hell Raisers

    by Patango on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:17:48 AM PDT

  •  Eh. I'm just mild about Hillary. (5+ / 0-)

    And her political instincts ARE bad.

  •  It would be interesting to see whether HRC's votes (0+ / 0-)

    in the Senate during 2007 on these issues, align with what she says now.

    Shall I check to see whether she's contradicting herself?

  •  I'm curious. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida

    Are many of the ISIS fighters not the same rebels fighting against Assad in Syria?

  •  Hillary Clinton sucks (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    buffie, askew, cherish0708

    What a troll she is on this.  I really hope someone steps up so we can nominate someone who doesn't suck.  

    When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

    by Sun dog on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:36:26 AM PDT

    •  You are in Iowa right? Have there (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      edwardssl

      been any rumblings out there for another candidate?

      My Iowa connections aren't paying attention yet at all.

      Sinbad on dodging sniper fire in Bosnia - "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

      by askew on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 12:07:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Surprisingly quiet (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        askew, mjd in florida, wu ming

        Compared to '06, it's a different world.  If Warren shows up I think it could light a fire real fast.  I can't think of anyone else who would make as much of a splash.  

        When truth is only a matter of opinion, advantage goes to the liars.

        by Sun dog on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:31:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Interesting. I think it's harder to get Dems (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Sun dog

          excited when we already hold the WH. I am sure it will get more interesting after the midterms.

          Sinbad on dodging sniper fire in Bosnia - "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

          by askew on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:36:39 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hillary: "Let's keep on doing stupid stuff’. n/t (5+ / 0-)
  •  I'd say Al Gore's biggest mistake was distancing (8+ / 0-)

    himself from the Clintons.

    I hope Clinton doesn't make the same mistake of distancing herself from an excellent predecessor.

    •  Only if--- (0+ / 0-)

      Only if she distances herself from BILL.

      If she had HALF of his savvy and innate charm she WOULD have been President right about---now.  

      I don't think clinging to a Pres that a lot of people don't like is going to do her any good tho.

      I like that he personally is brilliant and thoughtful but you need some one who can ACT in the White House and sadly---I have not seen much action there.

      These statements are her setting up her own  shop-;  kind of like when kids decide that they need to have a different worldview than the ones their parents hold.  They don't need to cut themselves off from their parents or say they hate them but they need to carve out their own territory.  

      And of course the one phrase the MSM grabbed is the one that stated "I  am NOT my father!"

  •  Democrat for President in 2016 (5+ / 0-)

    If it's Hillary Clinton, fine.  She's not my first choice, but any potential Democratic Presidential candidate will be better than any potential Republican Presidential candidate.

    Obama is demonstrably less martial than Clinton, he use of force is based on a core principle not of adventurism, or American stature, or USA pride or ego, or corporate imperialism, or revenge, or hawkishness for hawkishness sake... His actual decisions for the use of military force seem to be based on proof or substantive belief of genocide... It is not for nothing that both Susan Rice (who counts her failure to demand Bill Clinton intervene in the Rwandan genocide as a life and policy changing event) and Samantha Power (the world's foremost authority of genocide) are major players in his foreign policy decision making team.

    At his core, I believe he sees himself as a defender of the weak and powerless who face certain death at the hands of a genocidal bully.  The bar for Obama initiated military  intervention is actually higher than for most American politicians, but genocide is a trigger.  I believe the tragic lesson of the SS St Louis (the Holocaust ship of American shame, made into the movie, The Voyage of the Damned) was not lost on him.

    "Out of Many, One Nation." This is the great promise of these United States of America -9.75 -6.87

    by Uncle Moji on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 12:32:31 PM PDT

    •  Excellently stated (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cherish0708

      Regardless of which party wins WH in 2016, Come 2017 and many people will be pining for the Obama years as neo-con adventurism rears its ugly head again.

      "What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them." -- Pres. Obama (1/20/2009)

      by zizi on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:09:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My guess is that HRC's focus groups have (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wu ming

    shown that centrist men are responding to this kind of chickenhawking, and she definitely needs to find ways to secure a goodly chunk of that demographic in '16.

    Fight them to the end, until the children of the poor eat better than the dogs of the rich.

    by raincrow on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 12:33:28 PM PDT

    •  No, she really doesn't. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      happymisanthropy

      There are plenty of women and men who are not enamored of war as the first and last solution to everything, who understand collateral damage, blowback and the litany of unintended consequences that aggression brings, even (especially?) when couched as "defense."

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:28:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He didn't answer the question (0+ / 0-)

    does he regret it? He (sort of) answered the unasked question "why did you remove all forces from Iraq"? He has cited poor intelligence (where have we heard that before ?) for underestimating the danger of ISIS. The administration has always touted removal of all forces from Iraq as a great accomplishment. "Does you still think so"? Is an appropriate question that he did not answer. He cannot have it both ways.

    •  wrong -- as usual. the rw talking point the (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      a2nite

      (cough, cough) reporter posited is a prime example of a false dilemma/bifurcation fallacy:

      http://www.logicalfallacies.info/...

      but you already knew that . . . didn't you?

      The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ J.K. Galbraith

      by bluezen on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 04:28:36 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nope (0+ / 0-)

        You tell me where he answered the question:

        "...  if he regretted not leaving troops in Iraq."?

        And what the fallacy is?

        I'll wait.

        •  typical dodge -- for you. (0+ / 0-)

          not only did i identify the fallacy by name: false dilemma/bifurcation -- i also provided a link (i assume you know what a link is & how to use one) for further elaboration/edification.

          here's the money quote from the link:

          Another example [of a false dilemma/bifurcation fallacy] emerged when George W Bush launched the war on terror, insisting that other nations were either for or against America in her campaign, excluding the quite real possibility of neutrality.

          The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ J.K. Galbraith

          by bluezen on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 04:50:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  nope (0+ / 0-)

            What is the fallacy YOU refer too in my comment? I know the definition smart guy. And when did he answer the question? This is twice I've asked these two very simple questions.

            •  mister t-party -- at least "smart guy" is (0+ / 0-)

              applicable in my case, but can't same the same for you.

              helloooo . . . the fallacy i refer to (not "too) in your comment is false dilemma/bifurcation. if you knew the definition, as you claim, you wouldn't persist in demonstrating your ignorance.

              the so-called reporter who posed the question deliberately framed it in a fallacious manner -- like asking the classic: "when did you stop beating your wife?" -- in order to elicit an answer to a foregone conclusion -- here's a hint: it's the same one you & the rest of the rw have already decided on.

              president obama decided not to play your game by your rules, & answered it, fully, & completely -- yet, you're not satisfied.

              too fucking bad.

              The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. ~ J.K. Galbraith

              by bluezen on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 07:01:27 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  C'mon dude (0+ / 0-)

                you can do better than that? Answer the question. Third (last) time.

                Did he answer "if he regretted not keeping forces in Iraq"? If so, what did he say?

                And what is the fallacy in my my comment? Seriously. This is as easy as copying and pasting. Can you do that? If not my 12 year old can give you a tutorial.

                Dang dude, this should be easy. if you really have a point. Obviously you do not. Later tater.

  •  1 piece of the puzzle left out here (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy

    President Obama correctly says that the U.S. couldn't get a follow-on agreement to leave troops in Iraq in part because we couldn't get immunity for our troops. But Obama doesn't say WHY we couldn't get such immunity. One reason is that some U.S. personnel during the Bush/Cheney Iraq War, including some soldiers and Blackwater mercenaries, committed murder, torture and other atrocities against Iraqis. Who could blame them for wanting us out?

  •  Hillary just doesnt get it (5+ / 0-)

    Somehow, she rehabbed her reputation as SOS under Obama. I was hoping Obama's worldview would rub off on her. But it looks like she just lacks the spine or worldview savvy to be a good president when it comes to foreign policy. She is reverting back to the HIllary some of us never cared for.
    She is going to waste a lot of money on foreign wars and that will not leave any money for the social causes she supposedly has progressive views on.

    Is the party so weak that we can't find someone to give her a good fight in the primary?

  •  Iraq Would've Kept US Soldiers (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask, Words In Action

    Iraq was very interested in keeping US soldiers after the deadline it had set with Bush. But Iraq insisted US soldiers be bound by Iraqi law within the country. Because a decade of US atrocities with impunity proved they were not bound by any law - certainly not US law.

    Obama refused, because it's flamingly obvious our military is hellbent on committing atrocities. Hell, all war is an atrocity, but the Pentagon went into Iraq on the power of the tortured false confessions it adopted from the Russians, Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese we warred on post-WWII.

    So while the reporter's question might be bogus (though a clearly and honestly explained answer from Obama would be extremely relevant right now), the idea that Obama had no choice is definitely bogus.

    I'm glad we got out of there. But I do wish the $TRILLION AND A HALF we've annually paid the Pentagon ever since 9/11/2001 would have bought something to either stop the Islamic State while still in Syria. Or at least prepared Iraq to stop them once it invaded there. Instead it's the same old bogus incompetence railroading us to war and many dead Iraqis. This time on Obama's hands, after 5 years running things (with handpicked Republican Defense Secretaries).

    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

    by DocGonzo on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:47:27 PM PDT

    •  It's the unaccountability. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DocGonzo

      Accountability is a deal breaker for the Smart Guys in this country anymore, public or private sector.

      Oligarchy.Doesn't.Do.Accountability.

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:31:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I think (0+ / 0-)

      it's more plausible to say that Iraq used the immunity issue as an excuse to get American troops the hell out of their country.

      Not that that minimizes the war crimes themselves, of course.

      •  No Excuse (0+ / 0-)

        Immunity was clearly a core requirement. It's not just something they could waive.

        Besides, if they had the power to refuse to keep troops because of immunity, they could have refused on a basis that didn't (justifiably) insult and indict the Americans.

        "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - HST

        by DocGonzo on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 06:55:32 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  What's with Hillary? Must be trying to ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    happymisanthropy, cherish0708

    ...make her own mark/stand in national politics...but at the cost of making your party's leader...POTUS Obama!  At best she will get mixed results; at worst she will lose many Ds that thought she could be our next president.

    Our nations quality of life is based on the rightousness of its people.

    by kalihikane on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 01:53:05 PM PDT

  •  Now if Congress only was listening to this part of (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mjd in florida, cherish0708

    that speech by the POTUS, we'd really be on the road to a better America:

    I think the real lesson in [Afghanistan] [SUBSTITUTE THE COUNTRY OF YOUR CHOICE HERE] is that if factions in a country after a long period of civil war do not find a way to come up with a political accommodation; if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is, I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold.

    Much madness is divinest sense, much sense divinest madness.

    by SpamNunn on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:04:29 PM PDT

    •  Truman already explained that in reverse (0+ / 0-)

      "It's amazing what you can get done in Washington if you don't care who gets credit."

      That's the best explanation for why Republicans are torpedoing Republican policy, they're just making sure Obama doesn't get credit for anything.

  •  Fantasy land (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PinHole, cherish0708

    Somewhere along the line I started getting a right wing news forum in my e-mails. Don't know what made them pick me, I'm on the other team. It's called Newsmax and I just finished reading their version of Obama's press conference. They do print what Obama says, but go on to call it a lie because Obama has publicly taken credit for leaving Iraq. Somehow, their article just skips dealing with the fact that the Bush administration set the withdrawal timetable, not Obama. Their article repeats what Obama said and then proceeds to treat him as guilty for Bush's decisions. There is no reason to include these loons in any serious discussion much less decision making. How has it come to pass that such two faced lying cretins hold so much power in America? How much more of their poison can the nation absorb and still survive. We need Nuremberg trials for our own fascists and Nazis.

    •  That's where my in-laws get (0+ / 0-)

      their news.  That & FAUX.

      I went there once to see how bad they were.  Once was enough.  And shortly thereafter started getting spam from outfits selling gross and/or stupid products.  

  •  HRC is right about Syria of course but wrong ab... (0+ / 0-)

    HRC is right about Syria of course but wrong about much else. She has the classic Democratic Party sickness of leaning right hoping to pull in.....whoever.

    •  On arming the rebels (0+ / 0-)

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

      Would arming Syria’s rebels have stopped the Islamic State?

      The academic literature is not encouraging. In general, external support for rebels almost always make wars longer, bloodier and harder to resolve (for more on this, see the proceedings of this Project on Middle East Political Science symposium in the free PDF download). Worse, as the University of Maryland’s David Cunningham has shown, Syria had most of the characteristics of the type of civil war in which external support for rebels is least effective. The University of Colorado’s Aysegul Aydin and Binghamton University’s Patrick Regan have suggested that external support for a rebel group could help when all the external powers backing a rebel group are on the same page and effectively cooperate in directing resources to a common end. Unfortunately, Syria was never that type of civil war.

      Syria’s combination of a weak, fragmented collage of rebel organizations with a divided, competitive array of external sponsors was therefore the worst profile possible for effective external support.

      Had the plan to arm Syria’s rebels been adopted back in 2012, the most likely scenario is that the war would still be raging and look much as it does today, except that the United States would be far more intimately and deeply involved. That’s a prospect that Clinton frankly acknowledged during her interview, but that somehow didn’t make it into the headline. As catastrophic as Syria’s war has been, and as alarming as the Islamic State has become, there has never been a plausible case to be made that more U.S. arms for Syrian rebels would have meaningfully altered their path.

  •  How ironic: Vote for Hillary or you will get (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action

    President Paul.

    But when Hillary Clinton says something bad about Obama, OMG, she's awful, so don't vote for her.

    Which is it?  

    Dallasdoc: "Snowden is the natural successor to Osama bin Laden as the most consequential person in the world, as his actions have the potential to undo those taken in response to Osama."

    by gooderservice on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:50:50 PM PDT

    •  Well, as another commenter noted, (0+ / 0-)

      in the latter case, HRC Hawk would be facing anti-war Paul, and wouldn't that be a thriller?

      I've never left a blank space on a ballot... but I will not vote for someone [who vows] to spy on me. I will not do it. - dclawyer06

      Trust, but verify. - Reagan
      Vote, but Occupy. - commonmass

      by Words In Action on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:32:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Having the d (0+ / 0-)

    next to her name is not good enough. Paul is looking much better and inline with my mindset than HRC. But I'll keep an open mind until 2016.

  •  She Has A Very Lindsay Graham Quality (5+ / 0-)

    It's a smug passive-aggressiveness that does not come around to making an actual point.  There are videos where she sounds amazingly like Lindsay babbling about Benghazi. It's good for talk shows, but not leadership as such.

    Men are so necessarily mad, that not to be mad would amount to another form of madness. -Pascal

    by bernardpliers on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 02:59:46 PM PDT

    •  And like Lindsay, Hillary is always the bridesmaid (0+ / 0-)

      and not the bride. I can't see her winning the nomination for that reason. She just doesn't have "it".

      Sinbad on dodging sniper fire in Bosnia - "What kind of president would say, 'Hey, man, I can't go 'cause I might get shot so I'm going to send my wife...oh, and take a guitar player and a comedian with you.'"

      by askew on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:18:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Although this is the more complete (0+ / 0-)

    answer to the question posed, the Prez needs to drop the long answers, because they will never make it onto the news.  He should have learned by now that he needs to consolidate his answers into 2 minutes.

  •  Yay. It is ok in my book if he were also to (0+ / 0-)

    show a bit of judicious anger in this instance. For example stating that that while McCain is merely a Hawk of the Regular type, Clinton is most assuredly one of the Chicken type.

    And I am Kilrain of the 20th Maine. And I damn all gentlemen. Whose only worth is their father's name And the sweat of a workin' man Steve Earle - Dixieland

    by shigeru on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:11:25 PM PDT

  •  Hillary? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MPociask

    I certainly prefer HRC to anyone else in the Democratic or Republican parties, but there is an alternative. Bernie Sanders, a senator from Vermont, is being urged to run for President.

    Senator Sanders is a socialist (gasp!!!), just like the ones in Scandinavia, which number among them the happiest countries in the world. High taxes are paid by everybody, not just the middle class, and you get value for your money, like medical care, child care and ample wages. The corporations do not dictate your  laws or bribe your courts. Imagine that!

    I'm finally convinced that voting for someone who stands for a rotten economic system is the real waste of a vote. I intend to support Sanders if he chooses to run.

    Don't believe eveything you think.

    by boguseconomist on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 03:50:03 PM PDT

    •  I would happily vote for my neighbor Bernie!!!! (0+ / 0-)

      I was gonna leave it at that but---Vermont must have something in the water because they quietly manage to go about their day and do impossible things before breakfast.

      Gay marriage?  Gotcha covered.  

      Health care for all?  Yeah we got that.

      Environmental laws?  All eyes ARE on Vermont on this one.

      Big Box or Starbucks on EVERY corner?  Sensible and sensitive siting for all

      Is Vermont perfect?

      Nope.  

      But I live where I can spit out my window and hit Vermont and I am ENVIOUS of their policy's while NY wallows in the mire.

      When was the last time a Vermont politician had to resign in disgrace?  

      I'll wait.  

      Bring it Bernie

  •  Read the quote in context. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    chrayatl, certainot, StevenD56

    This from the transcript of the interview:

    JG: I think that defeating fascism and communism is a pretty big deal.

    HRC: That’s how I feel! Maybe this is old-fashioned. Okay, I feel that this might be an old-fashioned idea—but I’m about to find out, in more ways than one.

    Great nations need organizing principles, and “Don’t do stupid stuff” is not an organizing principle. It may be a necessary brake on the actions you might take in order to promote a vision.

    JG: So why do you think the president went out of his way to suggest recently that that this is his foreign policy in a nutshell?

    HRC: I think he was trying to communicate to the American people that he’s not going to do something crazy. I’ve sat in too many rooms with the president. He’s thoughtful, he’s incredibly smart, and able to analyze a lot of different factors that are all moving at the same time. I think he is cautious because he knows what he inherited, both the two wars and the economic front, and he has expended a lot of capital and energy trying to pull us out of the hole we’re in.

    So I think that that’s a political message. It’s not his worldview, if that makes sense to you.

  •  Lack of Candidates (0+ / 0-)

    I fear I will have to vote for HRC in 2016, as no progressive and populist Democrat seems to be forthcoming. Hillary is a corporate Democrat with hawkish leanings. How is she so different from the R's who got us into these foolish wars, pray tell?  When she and Bill realized how wealthy they could become, they stopped representing the middle class and underrepresented citizens.  

  •  I wonder if this was a reference to Dick Cheney (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    marina, bluezen, certainot, vespers, a2nite

    "But it gets frequently peddled around here by folks who oftentimes are trying to defend previous policies that they themselves made."

    Ed FitzGerald for governor Of Ohio. Women's lives depend on it. http://www.edfitzgeraldforohio.com/

    by anastasia p on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 05:17:46 PM PDT

  •  I'm in Kabul now, for the vote audit. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    begone, MPociask, certainot, otto, vespers

    My first time here, and it's a fascinating cultural experience (both the Afghan civilian environment and the ISAF military one).
    But what I most enjoy is working with the Afghans who are spending long hours in the hot, dusty warehouses where we carefully open and review, one by one, the 28,232 ballot boxes for signs of fraud.
    And yes, we find evidence of family voting, multiple voting, ballot stuffing, tampering, etc.  
    But it's primarily the Agents representing the two candidates who are learning about these elements of democracy: honest, calm debate; a shared search for truth; the power of the citizen's vote.
    The two candidates will come to some political agreement, and they'll work at power-sharing, but the Vote Audit could have an even more profound impact on the growth of democracy here.
    I would cite also the examples of recent close elections in Virginia, Minnesota, etc...
    Just my two cents,  since I don't have time to write a full diary about it.

    It's really about time i change my sig line...

    by stevenwag on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 06:43:24 PM PDT

  •  "Don't do stupid stuff" would have prevented WWI. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Words In Action, cherish0708, a2nite

    And U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. Just for starters.

    Most of the world's most horrific paroxysms of violence have resulted from applying an ideology of some sort or another.

    There are plenty of things to criticize Obama for, but "Don't do stupid stuff" is not one of them.

    Trust Clinton to criticize Obama for one of the few things he's right about.

    Obama: Pro-Pentagon, pro-Wall Street, pro-drilling, pro-fracking, pro-KXL, pro-surveillance. And the only person he prosecuted for the U.S. torture program is the man who revealed it. Clinton: More of the same.

    by expatjourno on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 09:16:39 PM PDT

  •  Regarding Hillary... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cherish0708
    Hillary Clinton would do well to not run the risk of reminding Americans how wrong her vote to support the war in Iraq was.  Many may see it not as a mistake she made based on Bush’s lies, but as a kinship in values with the neocons.
    I'm not so sure that Hillary's Iraq war vote was based on ideological kinship with the Neocons.  And I doubt very much that it was a mistake, based on Bush/Cheney lies.

    More than anything, I think it was based upon pure political calculation: the safest likely position to take at that time, based upon the circumstances, and the least potential political damage.  It's the closest that Hillary ever comes to personal "principle".

    As ever, the strongest possible selling point for Hillary's presidential ambitions remains the potential for her to keep the White House in the hands of the Democrats.

    All that is necessary for the triumph of the Right is that progressives do nothing.

    by Mystic Michael on Tue Aug 12, 2014 at 11:58:23 PM PDT

  •  that was an impressive answer to the question (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cherish0708, a2nite, askew

    i am really going to miss having him in the white house, no matter who replaces him.

  •  pretty clear (0+ / 0-)

    both on who's right and then who controls the media behind the curtain also right in a homo-phonic way ( I said homo")

  •  Doing stupid stuff is what the USA is good at; (0+ / 0-)

    we're exceptional that way.

    I voted Tuesday, May 6, 2014 because it is my right, my responsibility and because my parents moved from Alabama to Ohio to vote. Unfortunately, the republicons want to turn Ohio into Alabama.

    by a2nite on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 05:42:02 AM PDT

  •  Once again (0+ / 0-)

    Hillary Clinton shows her neocon colors and reminds us of why she'd make such a terrible President.

    Obama is right on this one.

    edwardlcote.blogspot.com

    by Edward L Cote on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 09:11:04 AM PDT

  •  Hillary is partially right, in that "not doing (0+ / 0-)

    stupid stuff" is a necessary but not sufficient condition for a coherent foreign policy. Obviously this is a caricature of Obama's foreign policy. But this framing gives Hillary room to define her own operating principle for U.S. foreign policy. This is standard positioning for a likely presidential candidate. But all I'm reading here is the short knife crowd, ready to go after Hillary NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS. As I've said often about Obama's opponents, "If Obama came out in favour of oxygen, his opponents would suffocate themselves.

    Sadly. it seems that the same is true for many Hillary opponents here.

    Hillary's positioning herself to run for president, following (arguably) the most popular AND hated president since Lincoln. I find it remarkable that many of her most natural supporters can't give her even a little room to to define her own place in the race, and instead are dissecting her every comment as if it were holy writ (as opposed to standard issue political positioning).

    If she runs as a white female Obama clone. she loses. If she runs as Elizabeth Warren (NO matter how much you want her to) she loses. Hillary needs to run as Hillary, which is as a Midwestern girl with populist economic roots with a deep trust in intelligently regulated capitalism. She's pro-labor, pro-choice, pro-environment, pro-voting rights, pro immigration reform, and pro center-left SCOTUS.  

    She knows she'll be RAVAGED by the right, no matter what she says, so she's voicing her words like a politician - which she is. Anything less would unleash a barrage of out-of-context Fox News stories and right wing fundraising letters.

    Still, the purity police are out in force today, all because Hillary dared to say that "don't do stupid stuff" is not a comprehensive foreign policy principle -- which it isn't.

    Never doubt that a small group of committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. --Margaret Mead

    by The Knute on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 09:54:03 AM PDT

  •  I wouldn't discount the political differences (0+ / 0-)

    between the Afghan presidential candidates.

    whether it’s different ethnicities, different religions, different regions
    Ashraf Ghani and Abdullah Abdullah have different politics, they have different visions for Afghanistan, they represent different interests beyond just a Pashtun/Tajik ethnic divide.

    If the different visions for Afghanistan aren't recognized, if they are reduced to just an ethnic or regional squabble, if we don't even see the political values at stake, this

    they’ve got to accommodate each other
    will never work.
  •  Is there a link to Obama's remarks to the (0+ / 0-)

    reporter who asked about withdrawal of forces from Iraq?

  •  Good for President Obama (0+ / 0-)

    The President did a great job responding to this nonsense.  I'm disappointed in Hillary Clinton.  I believe it's time for her to leave the political arena.  Don't get me wrong, I like her, but I think she has too much baggage to win in 2016.

  •  NEOCON Wrongdoing (0+ / 0-)

    Project for an American Century would have US war profiteers' winning with profits for US jackboots all over the world doing what Israeli war criminals do all the time.

    Hillary is nuts to go along with the NEOCON holocaust.

  •  Clinton and Iraq (0+ / 0-)

    I as all set to back Hillary Clinton for Pres. but when she comes out with jibberish like she did I'll look elsewhere for a worthwhile candidate.  Sorry Hillary--don't pander to the ignorant and the right wing.

  •  I'm sick of the Clintons. (0+ / 0-)

    I wish Elizabeth Warren would run for president. She would be so much better than another Clinton. I will never forget Bill Clinton's stupid decision to sign NAFTA, which made him not much different from the rest of the pigs.

    If you like bicycles, check out the newest and coolest products at my site, "ZiggyboyBullet.com." You can also find my products at e-Bay under the name, "Ziggyboy." See all the products on my "See seller's other items" link.

    by JohnnieZ on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 01:20:49 PM PDT

  •  War Stars: the Phantom Menaces (0+ / 0-)

    At war with Iran, Egberto?  Panama?  The Dominican Republic?

    When?  Was I asleep.  Did I miss these?   Why didn't the alarm clock go off?  Why didn't someone TELL me???

  •  The Pres. (0+ / 0-)

    Glad to see the President stepping up to discuss this issue brought up and contrived by the right wing who can't stand a President who thus far has been 'strong' in our country's defense while also getting the terrorists Bush failed to get.

     I can understand his frustration in dealing with all the fire storm of curve balls some right wing republicans throw at him.  Nothing puts out their balls-of-fire than a few words of facts and truth.  Although 'facts and truth' have never stood in the way of Republi-cants before.  

  •  Obama is one smart man (0+ / 0-)

    Thank you for sharing this link.  It really is a strong demonstration of the brilliance and strength of our president.

    Obama may not be the most popular president we've ever seen, but he is the most principled, thoughtful and wise president I've seen in my 51 years.

  •  Hillary Clinton has been in the game too long (0+ / 0-)

    and supports the military industrial complex and business as usual.

  •  The center cannot hold... (0+ / 0-)

    I like what he says here: " if they take maximalist positions and their attitude is, I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold."  

    This is the REpublican/Teaparty position, and is precisely the reason for gridlock in Washington.

    Republicans: The ISIS of the USA!

  •  What We Don't Need Is Another Neocon (0+ / 0-)

    Talk like this (from Hillary) is what got us into Iraq in the first place.  

    Dick (Neocon) Cheney, George W. (Wacko) Bush, and Donald (Fuck The Safety Of The Troops) Rumsfeld, make you wonder just who is the real enemy.

  •  The president (0+ / 0-)

    Yes Hillary was wrong. The American people are tired of jumping into every battle in the world. The E.U. now wont even help us. This is not because of this President, no it all stems from the war in Iraq plane and simple. What the President is now doing is trying like hell to SAVE innocent lives. Not trying Americanize the world. So no matter what he does it is not the right thing. A no win for the President. Hillary made no friends here. None. So I say to Bill and Hillary lay off the President. There are plenty of the right wing Tea-Party that need to be hammered.

  •  "Immunity from Prosecution???" (0+ / 0-)

    This feeble excuse for having to pull all troops out of Iraq is not consistent with a policy of putting the Nuremberg Principle as the primary directive in engagement in combat. Obama should understand that if Americans get into a dogfight that has overtones of atrocities, the legal recourse for dealing with this is part of being a civilized society. Trying to have an armed force that is above being accountable to basic rules of conduct is foolish.

    Obama's lack of respect for the Nuremberg Principle is clear in his obvious dismissiveness of Manning and Snowden, as well as the expectations of the government of Iraq that atrocities would need to be answered for. He obviously disagrees.

    Obama had best rethink the swagger approach to armed force, if he is to leave office with any credibility on this subject.

    I highly doubt that Elizabeth Warren would constantly refer to herself as the commander in chief, and insist on a non-accountable role for a local theatre of war's legal apparatus.

  •  Obama the POTUS who gets blamed for everything (0+ / 0-)

    He is probably behind my dog getting fleas, damn him. This country makes me ill by the number of times this reasonably good, clearly intelligent, man gets tagged for GWB's fuckups, for being black, for not being an American(the stupidest one of all), for being a socialist(I wish), and a plethora of fabricated evil doings. I am most ashamed of the blatant racism.
    Hillary Clinton is a blackguard and opportunist. Who sharpened your knife to stab Obama? Why succumb to such obvious political gamesmanship? I am ashamed for her. Mr. Sanders, Mr. Franken, Mr. Sherrod Brown, Mr. Grayson, and the really great Sen Warren-there are some good people. Then there are the clearly evil Scott Walkers, McConnells, Kochs, Kasichs, et al.  Jesus, Mrs. Clinton, did you have to pander? You are really, inside your soul, a conservative, maybe a reactionary. Obama is a better person than you. He is our President. He should be respected, not gang-kicked. And non-sequitur-wise, this shooting of young black men better stop, and we had better tell the cops to stand down. Take away all the military shit. Not revealing the name of the Ferguson cop? Secret police? Gestapo. That is a nascent Praetorian Guard for some Tea Party lunatic.

    oldenoughtoknowbetter

    by joedennis on Wed Aug 13, 2014 at 03:01:50 PM PDT

  •  This is why so voted for President Obama twice.... (0+ / 0-)

    This is why so voted for President Obama twice. He's thoughtful, clear headed, rational, not prone to making "feel good" moves that bring us a temporary rush. He would only be blamed for it later. These neocons and their right-wing media enablers are the real danger.

  •  finally, but too late (0+ / 0-)

    This article is more about the pent up frustration many of us, including its author, have with a presidency that showed promise and fell short, than it is about Obama, the press, or the Middle East. It's very strange, and a sign of how screwed up the country is, that we gleefully celebrate what is simply right and should have happened long ago instead of experiencing it at the time it is really needed and affirming it as a matter of course. Yes, Obama is factually correct in this case and yes, blame needs to be placed on the right, where it belongs, but if we imagine he cares more about democracy, in Iraq, Afghanistan or the U.S., than corporate welfare, or that his performance in this instance is adequate, we will keep voting for and getting more of the same Bush lite leadership. Hillary seems to be taking her testosterone supplements, ready to make her name in the world and uphold the great U.S. tradition of wasteful and tragic stupidity.

  •  Wow. (0+ / 0-)

    Well said!!!!!!  Instruction to those who speak with no clue what they are talking about.  That pretty much explains it all and I do wish this was more reported.

  •  The "coolest" President (0+ / 0-)

    I love watching President Obama methodically and with total coolness, rip apart the nonsensical arguments brought forth by the right wing rabble...
    He precisely and completely answered this reporter's question and then added all of the background information to show that his answer was irrefutable.

  •  hillary (0+ / 0-)

    I am a democrat and hillary lost my vote when she went against our President ,shame on you  for not standing behind your President.

  •  Consequences should have been clear (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Frosty46

    If we kept forces in Iraq since 2006, our deficit and debt would have continued to grow, more U.S. troops would have been killed, and there would be nothing in terms of peace and prosperity in Iraq to show for it.

    Bush, Cheney, and their cronies not only blundered into Iraq, they fabricated evidence, lied, and resorted to fear tactics to invade Iraq and take out Saddam Hussein. They were planning it well before 9/11; 9/11 was just a timely excuse to invade. As was known then just as is known now, Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. After the yellow cake drama and the retaliation against Plame, the Congress should have put a pause on the impending invasion of Iraq and called for a full investigation of Bush's reasons to go to war.

    Hussein was a nuisance to us and a ruthless dictator to the people of Iraq, but the consequences of disrupting the status quo in Iraq should have been clear.

    •  Consequences (0+ / 0-)

      9-11 was done to provide the next great FEAR and it worked like clock work.  Russia's demise economically took away our FEAR entity and the faked attack provided what is now the longest running period of constant WAR ever devised by man on this planet.  A roaring success for many WAR Corporations and damn if they don't kickback like champs!

      Obama and Clinton are simply vying for best jake the fake Democrat that runs like a Rightwing Wet Dream President.

      •  Mindless Rambling (0+ / 0-)

        The 9-11 attack was indeed to instill fear, which is why it's called terrorism. But is was certainly not a fake attack. Conspiracy theories are bunk. Your remarks about Obama and Clinton are mindless rambling with no basis in fact.

  •  America: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Frosty46

    The land where even reporters are shills for the Republican Party, and telling lies is the order of the day.

    It's getting to the point where they seem to be in competition to see who can tell the biggest whoppers of lies.

  •  Sounds and sees very familiar, (0+ / 0-)

    'I want 100 percent of what I want and the other side gets nothing, then the center doesn’t hold'

    Is the very thing going on with republican politicians here in the great ole US of A. And yes they have divided the country and achieved their goals. See, repukes cannot have anything go smooth and especially when dems have control because they wont get elected so they have to keep things nice and screwed up so when they win office they can steamroll the country and blame democrats the next cycle. I just cant understand why some people don't get this strategy. Its mind blowing. The economy is like a train that takes tie to stop and pick up and the repukes time it perfectly in order to cast blame so low info retards believe it and why they place little to no value on education. "keepem stupid and they will swallow rot gut everytime". Hopefully our next generation doesn't drink that koolaid.

  •  Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Frosty46

    Hillary is a war hawk who's going to get us killed trying to prove that she has a dick and balls.  Warren or Bust.  I will never vote for a Clinton or a Bush again....ever.

  •  Regained Opportunity for Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Sounding ever so sad President Obama explains that he wanted to keep the Iraq War going but since the Iraqi's were tired of our presence we had to leave.  

    Don't ya just hate it when a good bribe generating war gets stopped dead in it's tracks?  

    Bet our fine Rightwing President is ever so happy that he's been given the chance to restart his war all over with the nice ISIS folks assistance.  Like a Republican Wet Dream along comes ISIS from out of no where--very much like our faked creation Ouida or how ever  you spell faked guillera movement.

    I am so very glad I worked for, donated money to Obama so he could continue in the grand tradition of Democrats elected that turn into Rightwing Monsters upon taking office!  Can't wait for the next round of tortures to begin--hoping for live coverage this time-----

  •  Blaming Obama? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    juanitaf13659

    How quickly those opposed to Obama;s policies seem to forget how we got involved in Iraq, They forget that the Middle East was relatively stable when Saddam was in power. They forget that Saddam had nought to do with 9/11, they forget Iraq would and could not create  "a mushroom cloud within a year". They forget that Iraq had no stockpiles of wmds as proved by Junior's hand picked weapons inspecrors. They forget the plea of the IAEA inspectors for Bush to be patient, that the Iraqis were allowing the inspectors to do their job. They forget the millions of marchers throughout the world who protested the invasion, millions of ignorant cirizens who knew more than that dim light bulb Rumsfeldt who brilliantly said "when you go to a (preemptive) war you go with the army you got, not the one you want". They forget that we supported Iraq in the Iran/Iraq War. They forget that Iraq, under Saddam kept the power balance relatively stable.
    I would like the brightest bulb in the Bush Administration to justify the invasion of the Middle East that has brought us to the present day catastrophe,

  •  Goodbye Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    juanitaf13659

    As far as I'm concerned the woman is history.  She stood with republicans to go into a war on manufactured data (lies) about WMD in Iraq and now she joins the chorus of republicans out to do their best to discredit the president. This woman doesn't have a mind of her own.

    My advice to her is the same as to Dick Cheney.  Just shut up.  I certainly don't want to see her as president. Maybe she'd do less damage as a stay at home grandparent.

  •  a pompass ass (0+ / 0-)

    Contrary to what this hack would have you believe, Hillary wasn't wrong.  There are a lot of Democrats out here who believe those men and women who rose up against Assad in the beginning should have been given the tools to win a war that could be over now.
      Possibly had they been this IS crap would not be happing.
    It is possible that before the 200,000 Syrians were killed a little help from like minded people, those who believe dictators do not make the best rulers, the Syrians would have given Assad the same treatment Saddam and Kaddafi got.
    If you are a fool or just misinformed this President has a lot of boots on the ground in Iraq. There aren't any combat brigades or companies but every single member of the armed forces of the US are in fact "boots on the ground".  Every single one of them has been trained how to kill.  They are in fact trained killers. Patriots yes, but killers none the less.  Yes, they look good but let there be no doubt in your mind they can fight.
    And those planes flying over Iraq are not flown by airline pilots.
    "Good morning ladies and gentleman. We should have good weather on our flight today.  Things may get a little bumpy so we ask you to keep your seatbelts fastened.  Thank you for choosing the US Navy today. Please remember we are not boots on the ground unless we get hit by a surface to air missile.  Then even though our boots will be on the ground we are not ground combat forces.  And again, thanks for flying American"
    Bury your head in the sand or just do what you do best, play politics, the bottom line is we are in a shooting war in Irag with boots on the ground.

  •  Some idiots don't know (0+ / 0-)

    Some people in the US military who are assigned jobs other than carrying a weapon 24/7 are in fact trained killers. When the need arises they are fully capable of firing a weapon and killing the enemy.  
    Obama and his peacenik advisors who are afraid of their own shadow could have armed the rebellious Syrians before all the foreign fighters came in and turned a civil war into a world class terrorist war.
      Had the US general serving with the Kurds been listened to by the civilians in the White House they would have known that the $200 million in arms given to Iraq to be transferred to the Kurds were being stored by the corrupt government in Bagdad.  Even with the stupid thing they did by not giving weapons to the freedom fighters in Syria the Kurds might have had the weapons to defend themselves and we would not have "boots on the ground" as in fact we do now.  
    While many slept in DC the Iraq government was storing deadly weapons so they could hand them over to IS after the 10 year trained Iraqi military ran away.
    Those advisors, special forces and Marines going in and out of Iraq as we speak are among the best trained combat fighters in the world.
    Stop lying to the American people and admit we have "boots on the ground in Iraq."

  •  Don't dare to dissagree with the intellectuals (0+ / 0-)

    who don't know what the US military "clerk" is capable of. They can kill with their bare hands. They can certainly kill with a weapon.  And, a very important point, they do wear BOOTS.
    And when they walk, they walk with boots on the ground.  Novel thought to some I know but the truth is actually the truth.
    The line from A Few Good Men spoken by Jack Nicholson, "you can't handle the truth" is right on point here.
    Ask the IS terrorist that is getting his butt blown off by that smart bomb coming from a jet flown by a member of the US military whether they care if the pilot has "boots on the ground" or not.

  •  Sad, but true ... (0+ / 0-)

    What the so called Republican Party has gotten good at is distortion and out-and-out lies. Each time I listen to Fox News reports on any political issues they contain information that is easily dispelled by any who follow the facts.  We need only listen as things happen - then remember what we've heard ... not "their take" months and years later.

    By the way ... how can Boehner or McConnell claim leadership positions within their so called Republican caucus when the like of Ted Cruz is in fact the de-facto leader ... Cruz isn't even doing it in the shadows, but out in the open.  So - as any logical person might conclude - there is NO Republican Party ... but rather a mix of elements that are no alike -  contrary by their very nature - and self-destructing as they struggle for complete control.

    And guess who the losers are ...
    a) their entire country
    b) the American people
    c) our way of life
    d) all of the above

    By placing a politician in Washington it is not thought that we seek an ideology who wishes to impose his/her way on all others, but rather a thinking person who is willing to see the bigger picture and seek solutions.

    Even in these times of turmoil and strife, these misfit can't get their grip on reality.

  •  the President made his point (0+ / 0-)

    about the stupid questions that are politically motivated.
    When the US forces left Iraq it was because the corrupt Iraqi government wouldn't sign a status of forces agreement that would have protected American service men and women from being hauled before a corrupt court and tried under laws that often times include stoning to death women who have sex out of marriage oh the horror.  
    Politics and the truth seldom are the same. The only reason Bengazi was not blamed on the President was the other target of hate was much more inviting.
    This President had already won his two elections, the other target was a prime candidate, the most qualified in the opinion of many, was still to run.

  •  What is the matter with ... (0+ / 0-)

    Hillary?  Maybe her head injury did make her more a right-winger than she was before.  There is nothing she can offer that is in any way progressive.  I always was suspicious of her and her similar anti-labor, anti-consumer, pro-Wall Street "husband" (if he can still be called that).  "Primary Colors" was a more truthful portrayal of this power-hungry couple that we thought at first.  The more I see that movie, the sadder I get.  Can't the Democrats (or what's left of them) reconstitute our party as the leading progressive party as it used to be?  HRC must live in another world, not ours, where her brave soldiers have to continually "protect" the US against whoever is decided at the time to be our enemy.  Does she want to be "Big Sister" from "1984"?  At least Obama is finally starting to realize that history is more important than "political science", which is seen as somehow existing in a time-free vacuum.  I'm trying to figure out what HRC "thinks", if she does at all.  Maybe the neocons really got to her while she was in the hospital and made her worse?

  •  Lawlessness (0+ / 0-)

    How can we consider building up foreign militaries when we have cities right here in the U.S.A. that  are still not under martial law.

  •  Hillary Likes Cheap Shots and Has a Herd Mentality (0+ / 0-)

    Why the thought of her as President makes my blood run cold.

  •  Hillary Likes Cheap Shots and Has a Herd Mentality (0+ / 0-)

    Why the thought of her as President makes my blood run cold.

  •  The top advisors who weren't yes men said (0+ / 0-)

    the US should arm the Syrian rebels from the outset.

    "A former administration official has subsequently dismantled the president's argument.....
    "decades of universal conscription and mandatory military service in Syria" by characterizing the armed opposition to the regime of Bashar al-Assad "as a hopeless collection of former butchers, bakers, and candlestick makers."
    .... notes that the recommendation to arm ... the moderate opposition was offered in some form not only by Clinton, "but by Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, CIA Director David Petraeus, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Gen. Martin Dempsey."

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/...

    What makes this all even more sorry is the insidiously evil assertion that these same "butchers, bakers and candlestick makers" died alongside their family members fighting in a war the President sees on tv.

    So when you lay your head down on that clean nice pillow don't think about the 200,000 Syrian women, men and children who are dead and the possibility that some if not most would be still alive today had we done more.  You really don't want to face reality.

    And that is not "horseshit" mr President.

    Hopefully this administration won't have the chance to not say “Don’t do stupid stuff” in the next 3 years.

  •  the bottom line (0+ / 0-)

    Republican tea partiers aren't the only holier than thou self righteous bastards out there.  It is a bi partisan trait.

  •  But DO Something (0+ / 0-)

    My favorite manager once warned me; "Thinking looks suspiciously like nothing."

  •  Obama-Kerry-Afghanistan-Bush (0+ / 0-)

    "...excellent work of John Kerry and others, we now are seeing the two candidates in the recent presidential election start coming together and agreeing not only to move forward on the audit to be able to finally certify a winner in the election, but also the kinds of political accommodations that are going to be required to keep democracy moving."

    Is Kerry stuck forever with the image provoking Gore Vs Bush; SCOTUS?  

    AND

    Is this a politcal poke at the Bush administrations "misunderestimating" of foreign policy?  

  •  Classy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MacGhillemoire

    Our president is a 1st class act.  America can be proud which hasn't occurred in this country for long time.  His critics, including Hillary, are way off base and full of jealously.

    •  The Clintons are always full of jealousy (0+ / 0-)

      and I can't believe the majority of people here are even considering voting for her.  I'm saddened and dismayed. Her vote in 2002 on invading Iraq should be enough to turn all of you off and yet the majority here doesn't think there is anyone else.  I'm sickened and horrified.  We will never move this country forward if Hillary wins the presidency.  Just sit tight.  Someone viable will make themselves available for the job to keep President Obama's momentum moving us forward.  To vote for Hillary is to take (at least) two steps back.  Her current comments about Obama's foreign policy clearly tells us she intends to use force at the drop of a hat.  If she is elected president, I give up.  I'm done.  No more caring about what happens to this country.  We can continue to volley with stupid.  

      It's on you.

  •  Hillary (0+ / 0-)

    Is Hillary trying to be the female McCain?  Is she prone to overcompensating in the 'macho' department with the 'muscular foreign policy' bullshit?

    If she keeps it up with her ill-advised spouting off,  she will sure as hell blow it in '16.

  •  Just when you might have thought the sandbaggin... (0+ / 0-)

    Just when you might have thought the sandbagging of the Rs by the Teabaggers had reached a turning point with their losses in the recent primaries, along comes Hillary to show that their toxic bait has snagged the opportunistic distaff Clinton.

  •  OUT, Damned Facts! (0+ / 0-)

    The President's argument seems to be that he ought not be held accountable for things done by his predecessor. Specifically, he says, the legal obligation of the U.S. to withdraw all troops by the end of 2011 was created by Bush, not by him.  That certainly sounds plausible, but if it were a valid argument then he ought not be blamed for the 'bail-out' of the big banks either, because that also occurred before he was in office.  Taken to its logical conclusion, this reasoning would also absolve him from blame for invading Iraq, and for deferring to Cheney's warmongering.  We should stop misunderestimating him and simply accept that he is to blame for many things that were done before he got there.  If I may borrow from lady MacBeth: OUT, Damned Facts!

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